Hard tail vs Full suspension EMTB?

[Hyper]

What do you mean by "upgrading to a full sus"? personally I'd call it a downgrade.Until I'm aged about 80 I'll continue with better handling and greater climbing ability. Downhill speed doesn't bother me.

[Rob Edit] - cleaned another thread and created this one.

 

[Tony]

What do you mean by "upgrading to a full sus"? personally I'd call it a downgrade.Until I'm aged about 80 I'll continue with better handling and greater climbing ability. Downhill speed doesn't bother me.

Depends what sort of terrain you ride on and your ability. I have a steel hardtail and thats doesn't come close to a full sus bike as far as handling and climbing are concerned.

 

[Blackbird]

And besides it really does not matter wether or not we think a hardtail or fully is better, this thread is about Knobby and his new bike, so again, good looking bike Knobby! Have fun with it!

 

[Doomanic]

Downhill speed doesn't bother me.

And that's why you think it's a downgrade.

 

[Hyper]

And that's why you think it's a downgrade.

Yep, that's about it, any other area the hard tail performs as good if not better. Simple physics will prove that there's wasted energy riding a full sus.

 

[Ryder]

Simple physics will prove that there's wasted energy riding a full sus.

Good job it's got a motor then eh? Is yours fully ridgid or do you have one of those inefficient front suspension forks?

 

[Hyper]

Depends what sort of terrain you ride on and your ability. I have a steel hardtail and thats doesn't come close to a full sus bike as far as handling and climbing are concerned.

I don't consider myself a good rider, just average. But I often ride with groups and usually still riding up hills while the guys on full suspension bikes are walking. Simple physics.
And yes, the terrain we ride in New Zealand is very rugged. I'll post some photos.
If you're happy with a full sus, go for it. I still wouldn't call it an upgrade, just another option.

 

[Hyper]

Good job it's got a motor then eh? Is yours fully ridgid or do you have one of those inefficient front suspension forks?

No, I have a hard tail not a rigid. Couldn't do without the Manitou Mattocs.

 

[Doomanic]

But, but, but, all that bobbing, must be inefficient...

 

[Eckythump]

I’m with Blackbird, Knobby’s thread has been completely derailed.

Perhaps Rob could move all the extraneous comments to a new hard tail vs FS thread.

 

[Hyper]

I’m with Blackbird, Knobby’s thread has been completely derailed.

Perhaps Rob could move all the extraneous comments to a new hard tail vs FS thread.

?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I’m with Blackbird, Knobby’s thread has been completely derailed.

Perhaps Rob could move all the extraneous comments to a new hard tail vs FS thread.

Done

 

[Blackbird]

I'm a lazy hardtail rider so i'm just gonna copy a reply from another post i made:

If you want a full suspension in the future i would go for it now, you will only lose money trying to sell a secondhand bike later. For me 90% of riding is commuting or biking around town, to me that is where a hardtail really shines.
I run a second set of wheels with Schwalbe G-One Speed tires in 29x2.35 so it is really very comfortable.

I've ridden full sus bikes on pavement in the past and to me it never felt right, just not that planted feel that a hardtail gives me. Ofcourse your experience may be different.

And that a hardtail can ride trails without any problems is a fact no one can deny, people have done it for ages and will keep on doing just that. That a full sus can be better in some situations (downhill for instance) is also a fact.

But like i said if you are already planning on going ful sus, do it right away, because you are going to love EMTB riding, just like everyone

Good luck on picking the right one!

 

[knut7]

It's not just downhill that a full suspesion bike has an advantage. On flat trails or even fireroad you can remain seated for the most part so the ride will be more comfortable and less exhausting. When going uphill on trails the rear suspension will provide added traction, that's an advantage on steep terrain and/or loose surfaces.

 

[Blackbird]

Does anyone on a hardtail have trouble staying seated on flat trails? I mean, sure a full sus wil offer some more comfort but if you cannot stay in the saddle on a flat trail or fireroad on a hardtail then i do not know what you are doing.
And yes, there are more situations when a full sus will have advantages over a hardtail, but somepeople act like a hardtail suddenly is not a viable option for a mountainbike while they have been used for decades.

 

[Dax]

Hard tails are fine for fire road climbs and surfaced stuff, but if it gets lumpy then you’re better off with full sus, even going uphill. Suspension let’s you sit down and pedal which is far more efficient than standing up, absorbing the bumps and trying to pedal like you have to on a hardtail. When you add in some roots and rocks on a technical climb, you get better traction on a fullsus.

Modern full sus designs are so good at minimising pedal bob, there’s very little point in buying a hard tail now, i don’t understand why people get so excited about them.

 

[R120]

I love hardtails, and I will be adding an emtb hardtail to my quiver sooner rather than later, but suspension definitely let’s you get the power down better with an ebike. However a good riding style will mitigate this to an extent, but from my experience of riding hardtails they are a lot more physical meaning you have to ride them at full tilt mentally most of the time (which is part of the fun) whereas on a FS you can let the bike do the work for you and relax a bit if knackered.

What I would be interested in is how much the weight difference makes to the battery range. Titanium lightweight Emtb Hardtail, if they could get it close to 15kg, would be super interesting

 

[knut7]

So @EddieJ, care to explain why you disagree?

 

[Doomanic]

An e version of this would float my boat...

Kingdom Vendetta Frame - Bikes from Biketart UK

 

[R120]

I have been thinking the same ever since i saw a kingdom in the flesh a few weeks back! You sir have great taste

 

[Doomanic]

I saw a couple at the FoD over the winter; it was lust at first sight.

 

[EddieJ]

For starters you can remain seated and comfortable on flat trails and fire roads with no exhaustion riding a hardtail.

I also don't agree with you comment in respect of greater traction over steep terrain and loose surfaces. I can say without hesitation that the complete opposite has frequently been true on the countless climbs that I have completed in the Swiss Alps. This has been true of not only by my own use, but when in the company of other riders of both FS and HT.

I have owned three FS eMTB's tested countless others, and have also owned three hardtail eMTB's. I made the decision to sell the last remaining FS eMTB last year, as it was just sitting around collecting dust. I'd choose a hardtail any day of the week for climbing, which is my only desired use of an eMTB.

Despite claims, there is also still an undesirable bob with FS bikes even with the suspension locked out. The direct feel that a hardtail has to its terrain is, is far more desirable on the loose terrain that you mention.

Hardtails also have two major advantages. Weight saving, and no maintenance of bushes, bearings and shock absorber. Something that any FS owning rider in the UK, who rides all year round, will more than likely be replacing several times each year. Three to four times a year in my case.

I'm not arrogant enough to say that one bike design is better than another though, and if I were to be concentrating my riding focus on downhill riding and jumps then I'd not hesitate in getting another FS eMTB. Currently though the only time that I consider that I one would be more beneficial, is when riding across hard packed fields, on chatter bumps caused by cattle.

I have to head off now, as I am leaving for the Alps in just a few hours times for an eMTB climbing holiday using my preferred choice of a hardtail, and I'm certainly looking forward to being able to put things to the test again on loose climbs that the FS bikes had previously failed on. I shall certainly be revisiting this thread again upon my return, and will gather some links together for the pros and cons of both designs.

 

[EddieJ]

An e version of this would float my boat...
View attachment 2363
Kingdom Vendetta Frame - Bikes from Biketart UK

I quite like my hardtail mtb. One highly versatile and fast bike. Right I had best go!!

 

[R120]

Have a great trip!

 

[jonathan horticulturist]

I got my first full suspension bike because they are better for inexperienced riders like me. I had a hardtail first to have a go at mountain biking again as an introduction to my riding, but as soon as I saw a fat bike, I fell in love with them. I got my first fat bike last year, partly to give my friend the hardtail to ride, but had problems with it (buckled wheel needed replacing, bike wouldn’t change into granny gear). So I decided to get another fat bike (this time a half decent one, not an entry level) because of this, and also because my brother wanted a fat bike, so I gave him my old one (I replaced the buckled wheel for him). I window shop online a lot, and when I saw my Haibike Full Fat Six for sale, I was in two minds about getting one. I finally pulled the trigger about a month ago, and haven’t looked back since. I found a bike that I actually want to keep. So whatever happens to it, I will get it repaired and try my best to keep it in mint condition.

Fat bikes are really useful on technical ascents, and are the most fun MTB on the descents. Not the fastest, but that’s only important to those who use Strava and professional racers. And remember: they can go ANYWHERE (thick mud, sand, ice and snow). That extra oomph up difficult ascents in the sandunes is what I was looking for.

 

[knut7]

Sure, there are trails and fire roads where I can stay seated comfortably. Also there are trails and fireroads where the rear suspension will let me stay seated more and have a less exhausting ride. I don't know why you would deny that or even downvote such a statement.

And traction while climbing obviously comes down to the conditions. I'm saying there are situations where a full suspension bike will climb better. You're saying there are no such conditions?

Just because you're not experiencing these things doesn't mean they're not real. Here's Neil talking about FS vs HT XC bikes
At about 4:40 he says the FS has better traction going uphill. Earlier in the video he talks about the FS being more comfortable. Is that just him being arrogant or does it mean you're wrong?

 

[Doomanic]

I haven't ridden a HT off-road since the late '90's. I might hate it. Or I might love it. One thing is for sure, I'd only consider a playful HT to stand in for the FS in the winter slop to save on maintenance.

 

[Doomanic]

Oh dear, look what I've found... Ghost HYB KATO S3.7 AL - 27.5 E-Bike - 2018 - neon orange night black £2.5k
15% off first order as well...

Edit: if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. It's a phishing site.

Not that I could afford one right now anyway.

 

[Blackbird]

And here is a GMBN video saying a hardtail is better for climbing. (At 1:00) Does that mean Neil is wrong?

I'm sorry knut but that last line of your reply, “Is that him just arrogant or does that mean you're wrong?”, how can he be wrong as he is describing his experiences? Is this really the way you have a discussion?

 

[R120]

Lets face it a lot of it is down to the rider. If you can really ride a hardtail, you can motor up ascents, but theres an art to riding one.