Haibike Launch 18KG LYKE eBike - Fazua Ride 60

[stiv674]

I'd love one personally, unfortunately funds won't allow for two e-mtb's and the full fat suits the type of riding I do, and who I ride with.

It's great there's so much choice, not so great are the prices...

 

[Chicane]

23, 20, 18? Meh, wake me up up they get down to 13kg so I can ride it like a non ebike if I have to; THAT would be progress.

Meh, because there is no difference from a 54lb vs 41lb bike. I see TONS of progress!

 

[ShinySideUp]

Meh, because there is no difference from a 54lb vs 41lb bike. I see TONS of progress!

But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn't seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn't go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It's only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses -- circa 13Kg.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn't seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn't go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It's only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses -- circa 13Kg.

There’s a HUGE difference in handling between an 18KG ebike and a the average 24KG ebike.

imagine riding your ebike with 6 litres of water strapped to your frame and how different it might feel to move around.

 

[mak]

Honestly as Rob says the difference is huge. It doesn't sound headline grabbing but the difference is night and day.

I've just gone from 2.5 years on a full fat 25kg bike to a carbon rise. With pedals/ tubeless/ mudguards / numerous mounts the bike weighed in at a disappointing ( to me) 19.5 kg .

Gates / styles and any other torture implements along the route become a pleasure compared to the nightmare of a full fat bike.
The ride is totally different and to be honest they don't let you down on the power front or distance capabilities as you might think .

Different folks for different strokes though but I think there's a lot of people out there like I was flogging a full fat bike around for no reason .

 

[Chicane]

But when you have an engine behind you, or in an ebike case, underneath you, a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant. My motorbike goes just as well loaded up with holiday camping stuff as it does with only me on it. Similarly, my ebike doesn't seem to care that I weigh 98kgs instead of 94kgs and wouldn't go any faster if I weighed half that since the motor cuts out at 16 mph anyway. It's only when the engine, or battery, packs up and you have to cycle it home with actual legs that it would help to have a lighter bike but, as I said, an ebike is still heavy until it gets down to pre-ebike masses -- circa 13Kg.

You obviously haven’t tried late braking at the same point on a bike that weighs 15 pounds heavier have you, or you wouldn’t have spewed that nonsense? Then again you probably haven’t ridden a 41 pound ebike anyway, right?

 

[ShinySideUp]

You obviously haven’t tried late braking at the same point on a bike that weighs 15 pounds heavier have you, or you wouldn’t have spewed that nonsense?

Have a civil tongue please, vitriol is not funny and it's not clever. You may be a nutter downhiller but I am a trail rider, I'm in my late sixties and any crashes are likely to result in a broken hip so I don't tend to throw myself off cliffs in pursuit of a cheap thrill. I speak from the experience I have -- however little that may be -- and to someone like me, a few kilos difference in the mass of an ebike makes next to no difference. Try to understand that there are riders that expect different things from the sport of cycling and not just dismiss their comments out of hand, they are probably relevant to someone else if not you.

 

[Moshe]

The 60 nm would feel pretty good to me after a year of riding a KSL.
I think this bike would be a great trail emtb but I will never buy one. Haibike hasn't sold many bikes in the United States in over 2 years and I don't think they will bring this bike or any of their high-end bikes to America.
I fell in love with Haibike, after owning one, but they have forsaken me. My heart is broken.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Then don't buy this , get one with an 85 in. Not every bike is designed for YOU!

So who is it designed for ?.

 

[Chicane]

Have a civil tongue please, vitriol is not funny and it's not clever. You may be a nutter downhiller but I am a trail rider, I'm in my late sixties and any crashes are likely to result in a broken hip so I don't tend to throw myself off cliffs in pursuit of a cheap thrill. I speak from the experience I have -- however little that may be -- and to someone like me, a few kilos difference in the mass of an ebike makes next to no difference. Try to understand that there are riders that expect different things from the sport of cycling and not just dismiss their comments out of hand, they are probably relevant to someone else if not you.

No Nutter downhiller here. I'm just a broken up 48 year old body who was stating the facts of riding a SL ebike and responding to your original ridiculous post.

It should be pretty clear to you when Rob (who's ridden ALL the good ebikes) and one other echoed my same thoughts, but apparently you skimmed right over the well spoken facts.

 

[ShinySideUp]

There’s a HUGE difference in handling between an 18KG ebike and a the average 24KG ebike.

imagine riding your ebike with 6 litres of water strapped to your frame and how different it might feel to move around.

As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping. I carry a litre of water, a very heavy lock, and I have a kickstand, I wear a rucksack with maps and a camera in it. My expeditions (apart from the shopping) amount to riding slowly across Bodmin moor exploring the landscape, so you can understand that the weight of the bike in my case is largely irrelevant. Why is it no one can understand the recreational rider here? I have come to the conclusion that this forum is really not very inclusive for the casual MTB'er and aimed more at outright enthusiasts with very big pockets. I think I'll take my leave and find somewhere more friendly.

You're an administrator, please delete my account here.

 

[Doomanic]

find somewhere more friendly

Good luck with that! Believe it or not, this is probably the cuddliest bike forum on the net. Try going on the US forums and say you have an eeb...

 

[flash]

That went well..........

Gordon

 

[Planemo]

As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping.

You're not the only casual rider here, I would put myself in that bracket. 99% of my riding is road/trail/forest/very light bike park and only the last 1% is spent doing a trip to Morzine each year.

Yes theres a lot of folk on here who may seem abrupt but I've learnt to live with the fact that they simply don't take any prisoners when it comes to comments which aren't particularly correct. You said 'a few kilos either way seems largely irrelevant' but this just isn't true which is why you were jumped on.

For info I swopped bikes with my son (he has a non E Trance X2) in Morzine and the difference was literally astounding. I had gotton used to my Haibike over the previous few days and getting on his it felt like I was riding a toy. I'm not saying it was lacking in any way re suspension/overall strength but the ability to flick it about like a housefly was, lets say, liberating. And I wasn't doing crazy stuff like the blacks either.

Of course, in your use case the difference between a few kilos won't make much odds but that doesn't make your statement correct.

Stick around, understand that there is indeed a lot of hardcore riders on here who will pick up on wafty comments and all will be fine. Just apologise and move on. It will all be forgotton

Edit: before anyone jumps on me too, I appreciate that a non E Trance will be a fair bit lighter than even an SL ebike but IMO my point stands.

 

[Zimmerframe]

As I said, I am a trail rider with occasional trips into town to do shopping. I carry a litre of water, a very heavy lock, and I have a kickstand, I wear a rucksack with maps and a camera in it. My expeditions (apart from the shopping) amount to riding slowly across Bodmin moor exploring the landscape, so you can understand that the weight of the bike in my case is largely irrelevant. Why is it no one can understand the recreational rider here? I have come to the conclusion that this forum is really not very inclusive for the casual MTB'er and aimed more at outright enthusiasts with very big pockets. I think I'll take my leave and find somewhere more friendly.

I'll try and be completely neutral here.

You have to remember that forums all have degrees of etiquette. These normally aren't written down (though some are), they're mainly learnt from watching, reading, participating.

To try and explain your case. You've basically ridden into town, walked into the real ale bar with your can of Heineken and started telling everyone in there that you see no point in them drinking what they're drinking because what you drink is perfect for you.

Several people then tried to explain the differences and the benefits for them, which you've ignored and then only replied to people with less patience who were offended by your attitude and lack of decorum. When you could easily have ignored them instead of the people who were patient with you.

Then, because no one in the real ale bar agrees with you that Heineken would be better for them, despite them all having tried it on multiple occasions in bars, at parties, at orgy's, sitting alone in front of the tv or downing a 24 pack in an hour with friends, having partners who drink it regularly. You jump on your bar stool and declare the bar to be very unfriendly because no one agrees that what works for you is what works for them.

You then go on to make ridiculous statements about the whole forum not being very inclusive for the casual MTB rider and only for people with big pockets. When there are literally hundreds of threads about cheap bikes, short travel bikes, trail bikes, adventure bikes, touring bikes, cheap diy bikes and just about anything you can think of.

Anyone is always welcomed, but you can't complain when you jump into a specific thread which is discussing a specific bike and find that the people in that thread who are interested in that bike, don't all suddenly decide that they really only want a bike to ride to the shops on and bow down and admire your magnificent logic ?

There are numerous threads where it's discussed if people prefer lighter, lower powered bikes or "full fat" full power bikes - that's where you would discuss your views on the matter - not in a model specific thread.

In fairness, you aren't the only one to jump into this thread and say bizarre things which are effectively "trolling". More experienced members like Moto13 dived in saying he prefers an 85nm bike. I'm sure everyones very happy for him, but who cares as what's that got to do with this bike ? Then 2wheelsnot4 asked "who is it desgned for" ... ?!?! Another "why are you reading this thread, if you don't know the answer to that question".

To briefly explain anyway so hopefully it will put it to bed and people can stop asking pointless questions.

Some people will be coming from normal bikes and having picked up a FF bike, will just much prefer the idea of a lighter bike - they also won't be used to FF power so will appreciate any assistance level.

Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery - with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.

Edit : I'm not your mommy, so if your riding profile doesn't fit with the examples stated, then hopefully you'll have enough common sense to work that out for yourself.

Why have something heavier if you don't need it and you do the kind of riding where you either appreciate the lighter bike from a riding point of view (it's more engaging, it's more manoeuvrable, it's easier to lift over things).

And 1000 other reasons - already explained in other threads .

 

[Doomanic]

An amusing anecdote and some good sense.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Zimmerframe?

 

[irie]

Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery - with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.

It is not perfect for us. We ride mainly with assistance "Off" or in "Eco". We typically come home with 75% battery left.

But.

We use FF Bosch CX4 power to get up some very high gradient hills. Then turn assistance off to come down.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It is not perfect for us. We ride mainly with assistance "Off" or in "Eco". We typically come home with 75% battery left.

But.

We use FF Bosch CX4 power to get up some very high gradient hills. Then turn assistance off to come down.

Sorry, I didn't want to write a 1000+ paragraph's explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.

When you say it's "not perfect for us" - do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?

If you mean everyone, isn't that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width's, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don't just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that's what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?

If you mean you and your riding friends - then again - that's what we're saying isn't it ? This is a thread about this bike - if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it's not for the whole ride, then that's what YOU need - so this bike isn't for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn't apply to you or your type of riding ?

Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there's some slower sections and you're in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You've got a FF EMTB, if there's some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you're lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you're not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don't think anyone every says "It's more fun when I go slower descending" ?

 

[JetSetDemo]

I love craft beer

 

[irie]

Sorry, I didn't want to write a 1000+ paragraph's explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.

When you say it's "not perfect for us" - do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?

If you mean everyone, isn't that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width's, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don't just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that's what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?

If you mean you and your riding friends - then again - that's what we're saying isn't it ? This is a thread about this bike - if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it's not for the whole ride, then that's what YOU need - so this bike isn't for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn't apply to you or your type of riding ?

Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there's some slower sections and your in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You've got a FF EMTB, if there's some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you're lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you're not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don't think anyone every says "It's more fun when I go slower descending" ?

You said ...

Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery - with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.

Sorry, I didn't want to write a 1000+ paragraph's explaining every possible example. As I said there are already many threads which discuss the subject.

When you say it's "not perfect for us" - do you mean you and your riding friends or are you trying to clump anyone with a Full Fat bike into a single group irrespective of how and where they ride ?

If you mean everyone, isn't that the point of what I was trying to say ? EVERYONE is different. People have different fork widths, front travel, rear travel, disk sizes, wheel sizes, tyre width's, tyre types because they ride in different places and in different ways. We don't just say hey, you only need a 120mm fork because that's what I use so nothing else would be more suitable for someone else ?

If you mean you and your riding friends - then again - that's what we're saying isn't it ? This is a thread about this bike - if you need FF torque for your kind of riding, even if it's not for the whole ride, then that's what YOU need - so this bike isn't for you. Therefore, why make a negative comment in a thread about a bike which doesn't apply to you or your type of riding ?

Why do you turn assistance off to come down ? You have 75% battery left at the end of a ride. Your coming down so probably over the assistance limit anyway for most of it and even if there's some slower sections and your in eco/tour/emtb the amount of power used will be negligible compared to a climb. You've got a FF EMTB, if there's some bits where you need to pedal below the limit on the way down, why not use the motor to make those bits more fun/faster seen as you're lugging it with you ? Your not turning it off for fitness on the way down and you're not turning it off to save battery as you have enough to do the whole ride another 3 times over. I know everyone has different views, but I don't think anyone every says "It's more fun when I go slower descending" ?

A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation.

Others will have FF bikes but mainly ride in Eco for example. They might normally come home with half the battery left. For those people, a bike with a smaller motor which produces as much power as they need and a smaller battery - with enough autonomy for them, is perfect.

There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..

Fin.

 

[flash]

There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..

Fin.

Which is not what this bike is. Not what it pretends to be. Not one of the claims it makes.

So why are you in this thread going on about a bike that is EXACTLY the bike not suited to you instead of on the Rotwild R.X375 thread or something similar?

There could have been a couple of post like "Looks like a nice bike but it's not for the way I like to ride", and then move on. But it's been derailed into "this bike is shit because I don't like it....." kind of a thread. Jeeeezzzzuuuussss! People who want info on the Haibike Lyke are going to have to wade through this crap thinking they'll get to something useful....

Threads like this are why we can't have anything nice......

Gordon

p.s. I'm not even looking at a Haibike Lyke myself. I already have more than one mid powered bike and more than one full fat. And I should avoid this thread (it keeps showing up in my feed) but I think the bike is interesting and I'm coming back to read in the futile hope some actual experiences with the bike pop up when all that's really happening is a 3" dick show off competition.

 

[Doomanic]

here are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..

I suspect they are very much in the minority amongst eBikers in general. I wasn't aware Chichester had any big hills, is it the South's answer to the Golfie then?

 

[Jeff McD]

but I think the bike is interesting and I'm coming back to read in the futile hope some actual experiences with the bike pop up when all that's really happening is a 3" dick show off competition.

Me too! I find these new lighter ebikes fascinating, and I am very curious as to how the manufacturers are managing to get closer and closer to my ideal E bike with just a bit more power but keeping it below 40 pounds total. It is obviously coming and the anticipation is fun.
Not sucking up here but Rob's evaluations just seem to be more informative for us punters than those of the magazines. These are great times indeed. The technology seems to be progressing faster than I ever thought it would.

 

[Zimmerframe]

A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation.

"the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible"

My apologies for not covering the many thousands of different riding profiles in great detail in my "brief explanation" (again - as I already explained once the desire to not do it and fill the thread with a discussion which already exists elsewhere).

Strangely though, it seems you did understand as you said it didn't apply you "us" .

It is not perfect for us

Which I didn't understand and took to the time to question .. because it was a "A lesson ^^^ in obfuscation" ..

As the Mods will no doubt have to clean this thread anyway because it's full of so much self obsessed bullcrap .. we can waste some time and screenspace to try and understand your requirements more - though I have to guess much of it because you've been consistently unclear in your answers or have just not responded to questions anyway.

You say :

There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents..

Fin.

Glad to see there's no arrogance there and that your situation applies to all.

Did you watch the review of the bike or read any of the other threads about the Fazua 60 or other bikes with it (Pivot SL) ?

You have a 430wh battery. So for you yes, it's too large. You use 25% of 500wh (you don't need a big battery so presumably wouldn't be dumb enough to waste money/end up with a heavier bike than necessary on a 625/700/750wh bike). Your ideal is a bike with a 125wh battery. Believe it or not, MOST people who want an EMTB do NOT want a 125wh battery.

You do know that a bike exists which actually fits your requirements exactly, you should buy it, then you'll be happy, so you don't have to go into vegetarian restaurants and complain to everyone that you need steak.

The Fulger Mula. With a 90nm Polini motor. A weight of 20kg with two internal batteries a 504wh and a 125wh internal extender. The option also exists to run 250wh and 380wh external batteries. You can run the bike with just the 125wh internal battery in place.

You mainly ride in Off/Eco. So you're presumably very fit as you've spent all that money on an EMTB yet seek your pleasure in mainly riding a 25kg bike with the power off. It's an EMTB, so again presumably, you're off road for most of that.

However "There are those who require a powerful motor with limited battery capacity for steep ascents". This is where I get confused trying to understand your rides - yes, we're all different and ride in different places and in different way - the difference is that I'm trying to understand your rides and not just assuming that how I ride is better/more relevant to the rest of the world than how anyone else rides.

For an example :

This is on a steep climb (otherwise I wouldn't be going so damned slow and you can see cadence is still reasonable so I'm not just grandma riding it up and burning the motor out) on a 500wh Specialized Kenevo with a brose 1.3. I was one handed taking the screen capture so pedal power dropped off which in turn reduced motor power - so it's not peak.

I've already used 25% (125wh) of battery in 6.66 km's and 328m of climbing. Within those 6km's were 3 descents. So my 125wh actually only gave me 3km's of riding. It's a good example as it fits with your average ride and the theory that you NEED a full power motor for your climbs ? You can see that pans out with the predicted range of another 9km's on the remaining 375wh of battery assuming I continue to make descents. I'm pulling 94.11 wh a KM so If I only continue up, I actually have less than 4km's of riding left in the battery and if I'd just ridden up that hill the whole battery would have given me a 5km ride.

This is obviously the downside to a full power motor if you use it in Turbo/Boost - it produces a lot of power, but equally - uses a lot of power, hence why most have/want/need a larger battery . I have every confidence the Haibike would also make the same climb, I'd just be going slower.

So as not to be accused of anything by only giving one example on my road to understanding, here is another example going the other way.

This is presumably more like one of your rides ?

Focus Jam 2 with a Bosch Gen 4 and a 625 battery. About 10-15% battery left. I did stop for coffee's twice, food once, and beers twice so it wasn't a superhuman effort.

Riding in Eco and Off - but mainly trying to ride over the assist limit to obtain as much range and elevation as possible to "stretch out" the battery range. (Which was actually a stupid and pointless test as if you ride over the limit or with the battery off then the actual potential range is infinite).

For me personally, it wasn't a "fun" ride. It was painful, exhausting and my bum hurt. Actually everything hurt and whilst I'd wanted to do 5000m of climbing on one battery just to be dumb, I have zero intention of doing it again.

Therefore again, pretty much anything is possible either way with any type of bike/motor setup - it's more about how fast you will go, how much energy you will have to expend, how painful or fun it will be (if you don't find painful pedalling to be fun) As this bike has 12 second peaks of about 450w and averages about 300, assuming you're happy to use a lower gear on climbs and learn to use the boost just for one second here, 4 seconds there, 2 seconds there - then I don't see why it still can't actually ride any trail a FF bike could ride - it just won't be as quick or "easy".

For anyone who's not read it, this is an interesting post from the Pivot SL thread (same motor/battery).

2023 Pivot Shuttle SL - Super Light

AXS is nice but makes it too confusing for me when you go full AXS. Should be connected to the battery… Carbon Rims: nice but really reliable light ones are hard to find. Had too good experiences with Newmen rims. On slowbuild.de für 370€ with DT350. 1750g. No more carbon rims for me. BUT I...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Waynemarlow]

Interesting that in about 2 years the threads have gone from pure hating everything about 50NM lightweight bikes to actually now discussing them openly as the future trail bike.

Geez guys, we don't ride our downhill bikes on trail based rides because they are rubbush, how about us all accepting that the lightweight trail based EBike is actually designed to do a specific job, ride trails and not Enduro and downhill.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Interesting that in about 2 years the threads have gone from pure hating everything about 50NM lightweight bikes to actually now discussing them openly as the future trail bike.

I for one am clearly guilty of obfuscation again

I still hate them !!!! But I agree there's merit to discussion and don't understand why the Omnivores, Carnivores, Pescatarians, Flexitarians feel the need to go into a Vegetarian restaurant and complain ? I can see why you'd go in if you were curious, interested, starving, liked it.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I can see why you'd go in if you were curious, interested, starving, liked it.

Bit like my mothers advice on marriage, "always try on before you buy". Wish a few more here would actually get off their computer keyboards and go and try, before commenting

 

[Moe Ped]

Where the Sherrif when you need him

 

[Doomanic]

Where the Sherrif when you need him

Have you reported the post that requires the Sheriff's attention? AFAIK, he/she/they/them is/are a real person/people so can't be everywhere all at once.

 

[Moderator]

Where the Sherrif when you need him

They've been quietly watching behind the scenes in amazement. Pondering the best options to deal with it without putting any noses out of joint.

We were hoping general intervention from other members would nudge the thread back on track and elected not to tidy the thread and ban anyone from it.

For now though, even though we always like deleting @Zimmerframe's posts, he has for once said a few relevant points (though it was getting quite boring) which saves me repeating them .