Haibike Flyon Problems

[bluesman2020]

Morning All,

I bought my first EMTB, Haibike All Mtn 8, a couple of months ago from eBikeSussex, who are based in Shoreham, Sussex. Paid top dollar, but in the grip of a pandemic nothing is normal.

Love the bike. I used to be a serious road racer and time trial cyclist back in the day and wanted to keep off the crazy roads here. Often do 30km rides over the beautiful South Downs. Plenty of proper exercise but enough welly in the Flyon to take on the vertiginous ascents without the need of a defibrillator.

I'm writing a long review piece on ownership of EMTB for a Sunday paper: TOC, reliability, fitness benefits and more. So far, mostly good - until now.

The Haibike will no longer turn on. By removing the battery, I can get the bike fired up again. Clearly something is not right. I read on some of the other bad experiences that owners are having, specifically with service and warranty claims from Haibike. It would seem that in the rush to get these bikes out into the market, the supply and logistics chain is, at best, spasmodic; stories of owners having to sue in the County Courts to get action. Anyone else had similar problems? These bikes are not cheap.

Mine goes back to the dealer today (Monday) for diagnostics and repair. The shop owner, Richard, seems knowledgable about the Flyon system. I remember him telling me that it is the same motor they use in the NASA Mars Explorer. Let's hope he can find signs of life.

Anyway, like to hear of any other Haibike issues in the UK.

Regards

David

 

[TPEHAK]

I remember him telling me that it is the same motor they use in the NASA Mars Explorer.

Lol. What he told you is they use brushless motor in NASA Mars Explorer with maybe similar planetary gears. NACA does not use Flyon motor.

If they will offer you money back I would recommend you take money and buy Haibike with Yamaha motor - at least you will not have problems with motor.

 

[bluesman2020]

All good now. Dropped bike to ebikesussex.com in Shoreham. Richard, the owner, could not have been more helpful. He called me a few hours after looking at bike and diagnosed that the wiring loom needed replacing. Ordered the part, and today (less than 48 hours later) called personally to tell me that the bike was fixed and ready to pick up. Even threw in a lube and clean for me as an early Christmas gift.

Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Great job ebikesussex. A happy customer.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Even threw in a lube and clean for me as an early Christmas gift.

Made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Blimey ! That is service !!! So other than the wiring loom, he didn't touch the bike ?

 

[bluesman2020]

Blimey ! That is service !!! So other than the wiring loom, he didn't touch the bike ?

He plugged in the Haibike diagnostic dongle and then talked to manufacturers.

 

[arawa]

Good result. And it sounds like the Flyon spares situation has improved. Also reiterates the need for strong local bike shop support which can make a huge difference.

 

[Jackware]

He plugged in the Haibike diagnostic dongle and then talked to manufacturers.

 

[Mabman]

"It would seem that in the rush to get these bikes out into the market,"

IIRC it took over 2 yrs. for them to get the Flyon to market from when it was first shown @ Eurobike.

 

[Sidepod]

Lol. What he told you is they use brushless motor in NASA Mars Explorer with maybe similar planetary gears. NACA does not use Flyon motor.

If they will offer you money back I would recommend you take money and buy Haibike with Yamaha motor - at least you will not have problems with motor.

And you're basing your comments on how many months/miles ridden/experience of a TQ motor? Exactly. Zero.

 

[missile1956]

Hi Bluesman 2020,
Happy to know your problem was quickly solved. I bought my Haibike Flyon Allmtn 8 in the last october 02th and I'm still suffering the same problem as you: cannot turn on the bike by the button. Only by removing the battery, I can get the bike fired up again as you said. My Haibike dealer, here in Brescia north Italy, tried several times to resetting the bike, even has changed the button and it's cable but the problem reappears after few days. I feel my bike's problem belongs from some water penetration into the electronics as the problem reappears usually 2, 3 or 4 days after washing the bike. Not sure, only my felt. Can you please give me more detailed informations, wich wire, cable, or electronic device they have replaced into your Flyon? Thanks a lot and, by the way, happy new year to you and to everybody us

 

[Sidepod]

That sounds to me like it could be an issue with the main battery connection at the top of the down tube where the battery sits. It’s a floating connector to allow for tolerance when the battery slides in. Take out the battery and reach in with your hand and check it’s secure/clean etc. Check the mating connector on the top of the battery. May also be worth removing the air vent/cable guides from the head tube to access the wiring for the above connector just to confirm all is ok. As with all electrical problems, it’s a case of process of elimination.

 

[missile1956]

That sounds to me like it could be an issue with the main battery connection at the top of the down tube where the battery sits. It’s a floating connector to allow for tolerance when the battery slides in. Take out the battery and reach in with your hand and check it’s secure/clean etc. Check the mating connector on the top of the battery. May also be worth removing the air vent/cable guides from the head tube to access the wiring for the above connector just to confirm all is ok. As with all electrical problems, it’s a case of process of elimination.

Thank you Sidepot, this was the first checking I made. I'm used to remove the battery after every cleaning/washing and clean the interior of the down tube by air pression. Also I have 2 batteries and I turn it in place every time of charge. In my opinion the problem belongs from some very small water leakage in some electronic device. The local Haibike is very disposable and helpfull but no chance to find the origin of the problem even checking by computer connection to the bike. He has changed the ON/OFF button device complete already, but the problem has reappeared anyway. Now he is waiting the after winter holidays opening of the Haibike italian offices to get in touch with them. Anyhow I like my Flyon a lot as because it let me, 64 years old men, able to visit wild places wich I've never seen. Regards

 

[Sidepod]

Excellent. Keep us updated on the results. Just bought my second Flyon. Absolutely love them.

 

[TPEHAK]

Any E-Bike would let you visit wild places, it is not Flyon exclusive. Make sure you will not get stranded in those wild places with your Flyon.

 

[missile1956]

Excellent. Keep us updated on the results. Just bought my second Flyon. Absolutely love them.

I was just meaning Flyon is the powerest ebike motor and it can suply the lack in power of a 64 years old man, and keep me in time with my youngest bikers friends. Cheers

 

[missile1956]

I was just meaning Flyon is the powerest ebike motor and it can suply the lack in power of a 64 years old man, and keep me in time with my youngest bikers friends. Cheers

Sorry, this my reply was made for TPHAK

 

[missile1956]

Any E-Bike would let you visit wild places, it is not Flyon exclusive. Make sure you will not get stranded in those wild places with your Flyon.

I was just meaning Flyon is the powerest ebike motor and it can suply the lack in power of a 64 years old man, and keep me in time with my youngest bikers friends. Cheers

 

[Technomupet67]

Hi Bluesman 2020,
Happy to know your problem was quickly solved. I bought my Haibike Flyon Allmtn 8 in the last october 02th and I'm still suffering the same problem as you: cannot turn on the bike by the button. Only by removing the battery, I can get the bike fired up again as you said. My Haibike dealer, here in Brescia north Italy, tried several times to resetting the bike, even has changed the button and it's cable but the problem reappears after few days. I feel my bike's problem belongs from some water penetration into the electronics as the problem reappears usually 2, 3 or 4 days after washing the bike. Not sure, only my felt. Can you please give me more detailed informations, wich wire, cable, or electronic device they have replaced into your Flyon? Thanks a lot and, by the way, happy new year to you and to everybody us

Hello,
I have just started to have this same problem on my flyon bike. I also think it is linked to wet weather/cleaning etc...I am still investigating the battery connection etc...if anybody has found a solution, I would gratefully like to know !...

 

[missile1956]

Hello,
I have just started to have this same problem on my flyon bike. I also think it is linked to wet weather/cleaning etc...I am still investigating the battery connection etc...if anybody has found a solution, I would gratefully like to know !...

Hi Bluesman 2020,
I feel sorry and worried to see this bad new. I agree with you about the origin of the problem you have indicated. From my side I'm still waiting to bring my Flyon to the Haibike local dealer, after holidays. In the mean time I can tell you what's happens on my side:
1) my bike problem allways appears 2 or 3 days later to the washing operations
2) I tried to dry the down tube by hairdrayer but no way at that moment
3) two days later the bike has woken up and now it lights up again
4) I dont think the problem comes from the battery connector as because during the use the bike never went out.
5) For the time being I'll keep the bike kee close to me when biking, to operate on the battery directly.
In my opinion as there is not sealing between the motor and the frame the matter is the power motor connector wich has a very small oring seal (less than 1mm core diam - have a seen into this forum the thread "how to remove the Flyon motor" a few interesting pictures are shown). I'm thinking to protect that connector outside by some water repellent grease, but I would like to ask to the Haibike local dealer before. Anyhow keep in touch and thanks for your reply. Best regards

 

[Technomupet67]

Hi all,

Here is the problem and what I have done so far unsuccessfully. Sharing for anybody else with similar problem

Problem : Bike will only start if I take battery out and back in. All buttons operate as expected once bike is on. If I power down the bike using the standard controller, the bike cannot be started again using the buttons. Only by taking battery out and back in. I believe there is a small electric leakage somewhere because I noticed that the red back lights of the bike are partially "lit" (3 leds only on each side).

I do not think it is the buttons because they operate as expected once the bike is alive.
I have checked the quick connectors inside the main tube and air dry them. No breakage, no water visible.
I have checked the quick connectors for the back lights on the back frame and they are also ok. No broken pin no water etc..
I have taken the motor off and exposed the various connections. I have air dry all the quick connectors and checked for broken pins etc.. no visible breakage.
I have air dried the main motor connection and checked for a good seal etc...
I have checked the battery connector on the battery and within the main tube. All clean and no break.
I have checked the connection between the screen and the rest of the main loop and found no breakage or water ingress etc..(I still air dried it all to be sure)

I have tried to boot the bike without the back lights connected. no luck. (bike still boots with battery disconnect/connect trick)
I have tried to boot the bike without the back lights and without the skybeamer connected. no luck (bike still boots with battery disconnect/connect trick)

I do not know how to access the main loop inside the tube and would probably leave that to a dealer, as the access is very fiddly.
I will keep blowing hot air in the main tube and dry the main button controller to see if this can resolve over the coming days.

I love my bike and miss the rides already...I might risk going out with the bike despite this problem but do not want to make things worse.

 

[Sidepod]

Are you running a tuning box? The reason I ask is, it was my understanding that the early tuning kit wouldn’t work with the Skybeemer, it was one or the other but not both.

I did try running the lights without the tuning activated thinking this would be ok. I was wrong and after about 15mins the bike cut out and would only start again after a battery out reset.

This makes me think something is causing a software issue.

 

[Technomupet67]

Are you running a tuning box? The reason I ask is, it was my understanding that the early tuning kit wouldn’t work with the Skybeemer, it was one or the other but not both.

I did try running the lights without the tuning activated thinking this would be ok. I was wrong and after about 15mins the bike cut out and would only start again after a battery out reset.

This makes me think something is causing a software issue.

Hi there !,
No tuning kit fitted.
I agree potential software thing but I did not install anything new on the bike so it would be very strange
I went on a ride which was wet but not crazy, then back home , usual clean nothing different than usual (ie avoid water on electronics etc)
Put bike in garage
Try tu use it again following day and it would not start.
So it “feels like” water got somewhere not allowed but can’t find it !
Thanks

 

[Sidepod]

It’s virtually impossible for water to get into the motor as the connector is up above any of the frame tube junctions, it would have to defy gravity.

The on/off switch is completely sealed (I know, I’ve removed it to check) as is the display which only leaves the wiring harness connectors of which there are several tucked inside the head stock and the charger port wiring.

It may be worth checking the speed limit sensor inside the rear stay. These are quite sensitive apparently and will have the bike over given half a chance. Check the fixing and the wiring connectors which I think are below/above the motor.

 

[missile1956]

It’s virtually impossible for water to get into the motor as the connector is up above any of the frame tube junctions, it would have to defy gravity.

The on/off switch is completely sealed (I know, I’ve removed it to check) as is the display which only leaves the wiring harness connectors of which there are several tucked inside the head stock and the charger port wiring.

It may be worth checking the speed limit sensor inside the rear stay. These are quite sensitive apparently and will have the bike over given half a chance. Check the fixing and the wiring connectors which I think are below/above the motor.

Hi to all my unluckies friends!
About the the speed limit sensor inside the rear stay I allready got this problem on another ebike with Bosch motor. So I can say the symptoms are quite different: the display allways lights on, the speedometer only does not works. Motor start and stop as the rear sensor it likes.
One more think: in my case the bike dont light on only a few days after washing. I'm used to open and take off the battery and dry each time after cleaning and at that time the display lights on and the motor works. The bike dies 1 or 2 or 3 days after only... Unbelievable? Let say, Sidepot is right when he says that the motor power connector is located on the top, but small water likage makes condensation, especially in winter times, condensation can pass trough smaller space than water, even it goes up and not down only, and that proces take time... But this is my felt only, not proved.

 

[Technomupet67]

Well after a day of trying all the connections etc..I think it is time for a beer and think of something else! Thanks for the suggestions and help so far. will keep bike "dry" for a few days and see if this makes any difference but I now doubt it is related. Might just be a coincidence.
will update here if I find a solution.
The dealer will probably have some diagnostic tools to check better than me.
I also had a bosch previously with a fiddly speed sensor but it is not the same symptoms. I also tried a short ride and it is all fine once the bike has booted.

 

[Sidepod]

Interesting. The way I see it, it’s not a software issue as software doesn’t break which means it’s hardware so it has to be a cable and/or a connector. It could of course be a battery issue or more likely, if it is battery based, a BMS issue. The BMS is integral to the battery so the easiest way to prove it is swap battery and try to repeat the issue.

What would be useful here is a wiring scheme. With this and a decent multimeter, there would be a good chance of finding the fault.

I’m collecting a second Flyon bike tomorrow so it’ll be interesting to see if any issues arise.

 

[Technomupet67]

Earliest my dealer can look at the bike is 18th of Jan. Also agree that software should not "suddenly go bad". So will probably do another full check of all connections and might even try to get access to the main loom in the tube if the "leave it alone a few days" does not work.

 

[Sidepod]

Most of the loom connectors are accessible via the head tube inserts. The connectors are a very tight fit so it may be that one of them isn’t quite home properly. There is plenty of slack to pull the wiring out through the slots in the frame.
When I took my motor out I was shocked at how fragile the wiring looked for what I think is a harsh environment. It’s really simple to remove the motor and check the connectors it that area and I’d closely examine the insulation of the cables around the motor. There may just be a snick somewhere.

 

[Technomupet67]

Just a quick update for anybody with similar issues.

I have found a way to get the bike to boot from the main controller button rather than the in/out battery.
I have fully disconnected the back-lights on both sides inside the rear frame. I have made weatherproof/waterproof the connections and put everything back together.

I have tried to find any "leakage" or "broken" wires but nothing obvious. And everything is nice and dry.
The backlight wires run to the motor connector which I checked as well under the motor but I feel there is nothing more that I can check.

So everything is now working with the excluding the backlights..but at least I feel confident to go out and not going to be stranded with a heavy bike. (front light operate fine)

I do not think the problem is with the backlight themselves but more likely within the motor connector on the bike. It probably needs a full new loom. The bike is 10 months old, warranty claim coming.

I am still annoyed and feel that for such an expensive bike, everything should be absolutely perfect and bombproof.

I have also researched a bit the type of connectors used in this bike and they are JST Waterproof connectors used in the automotive industry and are rated IP67 so it is very unlikely that the connectors are a source water ingress.

Happy New year

 

[arawa]

Just a quick update for anybody with similar issues.

I have found a way to get the bike to boot from the main controller button rather than the in/out battery.
I have fully disconnected the back-lights on both sides inside the rear frame. I have made weatherproof/waterproof the connections and put everything back together.

I have tried to find any "leakage" or "broken" wires but nothing obvious. And everything is nice and dry.
The backlight wires run to the motor connector which I checked as well under the motor but I feel there is nothing more that I can check.

So everything is now working with the excluding the backlights..but at least I feel confident to go out and not going to be stranded with a heavy bike. (front light operate fine)

I do not think the problem is with the backlight themselves but more likely within the motor connector on the bike. It probably needs a full new loom. The bike is 10 months old, warranty claim coming.

I am still annoyed and feel that for such an expensive bike, everything should be absolutely perfect and bombproof.

I have also researched a bit the type of connectors used in this bike and they are JST Waterproof connectors used in the automotive industry and are rated IP67 so it is very unlikely that the connectors are a source water ingress.

Happy New year

Thanks for the feedback.
No similar problems with my bike but I do not have any lights! Touch wood, since the initial teething problems my bike has been absolutely fine.