Haibike FLYON, 120Nm motor, 630Wh battery with quick charge

[R120]

More info

 

[R120]

And some more

 

[knut7]

That's a big chainring :-o (Edit: Oh well, 38t will be okay with a 46t+ cassette. Seems to be 42t on the photos)

Nice geo, the Xduro allmtn looks quite modern! Long frame and low bb.

 

[R120]

Its the first (Electric) Haibike i have seen that is somewhat lustworthy, the bumpf confirms it is 48v

 

[Doomanic]

It's about time Haibike caught up with their geometry.

 

[Blackbird]

250w nominal does not mean anything, there is no limit on the maximum output. Yet.
It is not unthinkable the next e-bike limitation will be on maximum motor wattage instead of nominal.

 

[R120]

Whats interesting, from the look of the frame, is that they have been able to get the battery much lower (closer to bb) than any current bike i have seen, which should give it a low COG.

Rob is there an alternative display/displayless option?

 

[Hurrellmc'burrell]

it seems there is a lot of split opinions on this engine almost nitpicking who cares.its a stunning looking bike and cant wait to see the video rob puts out,to me the 120 Nm is about innovation not standing still and not keeping the torque the same as it has been for the last couple of years giving people choice if you dont want 120Nm then stick to whats out there allready at the end of the day its about choice and im glad to see the manufacturers being innovative and not standing still.

 

[MartinW148]

I guess my riding must be significantly different to most people on here.

I know I'm not the best on a bike and I am not trying to be downhill king, but there definitely seems to be an obsession with more power and with that, more weight.

E-bikes for me are about making my cycling more enjoyable, not turning it into a motorcycle. For me the best new tech I have seen so far is the Lappiere with the Fazua system, I'm hoping in future to see more like this.

Incidentally I bought a Focus Jam2 Carbon as this was about the lightest (affordable) FS available. The first time the wife rode it (in Eco and Trail), she actually asked if the motor was on, and only after switching it off was it noticeable.

 

[R120]

I don't think people are obsessed by power when it comes to pedelecs, i know the people who build crazy e-bikes with throttles etc are, but the key is useable power for this small instances you need it - whats interesting in Robs video is that the designer says the full torque is available on a much wider spread, so there when you need it.

Ultimately power isn't really that relevant past a certain level, but delivery of it is, as the holy grail certainly for an e-mtb is the motor matching your inputs and a natural feel to the motors reaction, almost like you don't realise the motor is there. What i want from motor is that if i am tackling a steep uphill, and come to a bit of it that is a nasty uprise or technical challenge, then the motor reacts to and with me, not just boosts off mucking up my cadence, or behaving in a way that distracts from concentrating on the trail.

Thats why i like the shimano trail mode so much, as it feels very natural, and reacts well when you need to kick, or back off over a technical/steep section, whereas if you have the bike in boost its not at all a natural experience to try and work with on anything technical, its fine at a constant speed or cadence but annoying when you are speeding up or slowing down on technical bits

 

[Sophie777]

I admit was excited about the FLYON, until I realized its frame is carbon (or carbon/aluminum).

I think carbon is a gimmick (even a scam), unless you are a professional racer (probably many on this forum are) - because even 1 fall will likely mean the end of your bike (which was the case with me and my new Carbon Diverge - fell on the first ride out of the bike shop, with the frame cracking in 3 places).
So unless they make an all-aluminum FLYON - no FLYON for me.

But maybe the Haibike FLYON is a sign of what may come with the Levo 2019 - can't believe Specialized would allow itself to be so outdone by Haibike's more powerful motor and bigger battery (assuming Haibike's claims are not overly exaggerated).

 

[Mabman]

That's an ugly bike IMNSHO, DT looks like a boa constrictor that ate a fence post.

Why all the attention on motors when the current crop of 250w, cough, cough, ones seem to work fine? The Bafang M600 advertises 120nm and weighs .4kg less, runs on 48v also and is not as proprietary a system.

The battery is the key to eMTB and the 21700 cells are on the way providing more energy density, higher C rate and twice as many charge cycles. unfortunately they won't retro into integrated battery systems. Had thought they would be on the market by now but crickets....beauty of open source is that you can already make your own. But you have to case it somehow and my solution was not to wrap it but bag it.

I use it as a range extender on longer rides to back up my 6yr old 48v 480wh Dolphin. 832wh and a little over 4kg. A total of 1312wh on the bike as shown that weighs in at 27.5kg. I am planning on doing some backcountry trips with this bike that will use most of that, and hopefully not all. Bike handles just fine btw, really rolls down hills too!

 

[R120]

I admit was excited about the FLYON, until I realized its frame is carbon (or carbon/aluminum).

I think carbon is a gimmick (even a scam), unless you are a professional racer (probably many on this forum are) - because even 1 fall will likely mean the end of your bike (which was the case with me and my new Carbon Diverge - fell on the first ride out of the bike shop, with the frame cracking in 3 places).
So unless they make an all-aluminum FLYON - no FLYON for me.

But maybe the Haibike FLYON is a sign of what may come with the Levo 2019 - can't believe Specialized would allow itself to be so outdone by Haibike's more powerful motor and bigger battery (assuming Haibike's claims are not overly exaggerated).

I have seen Carbon MTB'S flung off tracks and drops in crashes and only suffer scratches, the lay up of Carbon in an MTB frame is going to be significantly different to that in a Road Bike. Rob who runs the Forum has crashed his Carbon Levo several times and its fine.

I actually am not a massive fan of Carbon bikes, preferring steel on a road bike, but a good Carbon MTB frame is a very strong bit of kit.

 

[Crusher]

120nm 48v/630Wh is huge shot across the bow for Bosch et al. Love another system is going 48v. But software limited blows. Hopefully someone develops a dongle.

 

[Dax]

I admit was excited about the FLYON, until I realized its frame is carbon (or carbon/aluminum).

I think carbon is a gimmick (even a scam), unless you are a professional racer (probably many on this forum are) - because even 1 fall will likely mean the end of your bike (which was the case with me and my new Carbon Diverge - fell on the first ride out of the bike shop, with the frame cracking in 3 places).
So unless they make an all-aluminum FLYON - no FLYON for me.

Take a look at how Santa Cruz test their carbon frames, I realise it's a different brand, and doesnt cover impacts of tubes onto rocks, but its still interesting:

 

[knut7]

it seems there is a lot of split opinions on this engine almost nitpicking who cares.its a stunning looking bike and cant wait to see the video rob puts out,to me the 120 Nm is about innovation not standing still and not keeping the torque the same as it has been for the last couple of years giving people choice if you dont want 120Nm then stick to whats out there allready at the end of the day its about choice and im glad to see the manufacturers being innovative and not standing still.

Noone is standing still, but innovation seems to be taking different directions. I'm under the impression that most manufacturers are focusing on less weight. The new Panasonix X0 has seen a weight reduction for 2019, the new Shimano E7000 weighs less than the E8000 and sacrifices some power, the new Brose weighs quite a bit less for 2019. So it's a bit surprising to see Haibike releasing a motor weighing 1+ kg more than the Brose/E8000/E7000. Sure there's probably customers for the FLYON, and I'm guessing people looking to derestrict will/may love it.

Lapierre is going in the oposite direction and claim a motor+battery weight of just over 3kg for the Fazua. But it seems a 1,3kg gearbox is required too. So it could be they are sacrificing too much power/range to save too little weight. 4,5kg system weight is about 1kg less than the E8000+500wh battery. The weight difference compared to an E7000 with twice the battery could be less than 1kg. Will definitely be interesting to see more about the Lapierre.

 

[Ryder]

Key thing with the Lapierre is that the battery and motor are removable. For me that is huge, may not need a no electric bike at that point.

 

[eFat]

Take a look at how Santa Cruz test their carbon frames

That's exactly how I envisioned the process!

 

[knut7]

Key thing with the Lapierre is that the battery and motor are removable. For me that is huge, may not need a no electric bike at that point.

Yeah, that's a nice feature, I'd like to have the option to do DH rund without battery and motor. The removable weight is about 3kg if I understand correctly. I think there was supposed to be more info on it today.

 

[R120]

Yeah, that's a nice feature, I'd like to have the option to do DH rund without battery and motor. The removable weight is about 3kg if I understand correctly. I think there was supposed to be more info on it today.

Lapierre E-Zesty AM - Carbonbike mit Fazua-Antrieb | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

This most non e-mtb looking e-mtb to date?

 

[eFat]

Lapierre E-Zesty AM - Carbonbike mit Fazua-Antrieb | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

We should start a new thread about this bike.

The look is one thing but the weight gain is really impressive. IMO this is the direction eMTB will take in the future, less weight with (maybe) less power and autonomy.

 

[Ryder]

Want!!!!

 

[R120]

I have a feeling Rob may well be firing up a thread on it soon enough if its at eurobike, i will move it to that thread

 

[Carlos Muralhas]

Incredible Haibike eMTB

 

[Sophie777]

I have seen Carbon MTB'S flung off tracks and drops in crashes and only suffer scratches, the lay up of Carbon in an MTB frame is going to be significantly different to that in a Road Bike. Rob who runs the Forum has crashed his Carbon Levo several times and its fine.

I actually am not a massive fan of Carbon bikes, preferring steel on a road bike, but a good Carbon MTB frame is a very strong bit of kit.

My carbon Diverge frame actually cracked in 3 places when I fell with it.
But I have been told even if your carbon bike suffers only scratches - the frame is not reliable anymore, and needs to be replaced.

Maybe that is not true?

 

[R120]

There are a lot or pre and misconceptions on Carbon, and I am not an expert. However I do believe it is possible to damage a Carbon frame and for the visible damage to not be that apparent, but I also know that they are extremely tough if done properly.

I do have a thing against carbon bars though, as I one had a set crack on me, and if I had been using aluminium they probably would have just bent. It has left me with the belief (which may be totally unjustified) that whilst Carbon is stronger, when it goes it really goes!

Danny Mckaskill rides a Carbon trials bike with carbon rims nowadays and that’s as tough a test as I can imagine of the material

 

[Sophie777]

Take a look at how Santa Cruz test their carbon frames, I realise it's a different brand, and doesnt cover impacts of tubes onto rocks, but its still interesting:

Hi!
Yes, I saw that video (and others), and based on that video and others, I chose the Specialized Diverge in a carbon frame. I did not fall so hard with my bike, and I am certain the frame would not have cracked in 3 places, and in fact would have remained intact if it were aluminum (the bike shop also thought the same).

I think those youtube videos where presenters smash or drop carbon and aluminum frames are misleading. The flaw in those videos (which I only realize now) is that a bent aluminum frame is not equivalent in terms of failure to a cracked carbon frame.
And the carbon frame is probably already unsafe and prone to break some time before we actually see it crack.

So no Haibike Flyon for me. Maybe Specialized will also surprise us with their new 2019 Levo - in all aluminum!

 

[Mike Smith]

Great idea on the rear integrated lights seen a few helmets too with lights on the back.

 

[Slowroller]

I think it really depends on where you use the bike. In the Netherlands, were hill is a foreign word and mountains are clouds, no you really do not need more power. Turbo on a cx is already overkill.
In the Swiss alps? Making very steep climbs? Power could be usefull.

Then again, it is not just about what people need, it is also what people want, since more speed isn't possible under current laws, more power atracts buyers.

Also interesting to point out, the speed sensor is built into the rear brake disc and they say it is coded and cannot be manipulated. So no more overriding the speed governer.

Grind every other one of those raised bumps off of that disc and you've just halved the sensed speed..... I'm sure someone will start selling a new disc aftermarket. No need for a dongle on that motor.

Power will always sell as long as everyone pretends that all of the motors are still 250w "nominal".

I also worry about the BB bearings, what is entailed in changing them? If that's a shop only affair, that would suck.

 

[Hurrellmc'burrell]

knut7 i totally agree i would have thought the innovation should be on making lighter bikes not making them heavier, tbh as much as i think that making more powerfull engines like they done at haibike is innovative i would prefer to see them make the bikes lighter as that would make e bikes a lot more appealing.