GIANT Trance "Bench Test" Rig

[DrStupid]

IF you crack the code with the battery communication, then you also open up for the possibility of homemade batteries !!
That would be awesome !!!

I have no idea, but as a community we can likely figure out anything. There are some seriously scary-smart folks around here.

I just want to turn On the battery for now.

 

[cappuccino34]

Hi folks,
Not been posting of late as been crazy busy at work and havent been able to concentrate on much else thanks to COVID giving me a pay free year off work.

Anyway...
I decided to do a quick video of my home test rig as I know many GIANT Trance E-Bike owners are plagued with reliability problems and this quite inexpensive test rig will help you identify problems very quickly.

It’s worth noting that there are more than one harness options for these bikes so you would need to identify the right one for yours.
(I’ve seen 3 and 4 pin connectors on MY19 and MY20 bikes)

The charging port is not included in my rig (yet) as it’s unneeded to power up and operate the bike.
(tried and tested by riding my bike without one for weeks)

Hope the video is of some value to someone as I know how frustrating they can be when all you want to do is ride with your pals and you can’t after shelling out thousands for the latest bikes.

This Motor has been dead since May, and GIANTS week 29 delivery schedule has just been put back to week 33.
Absolutely cured of their parts delays to be fair...

Wish I could buy a spare motor, so if anyone knows of one... I am in the market!

Hi Stu

In your video you say that the immediate shutting down after powering up is the motor.
I just thought I'd mention that it's not always the motor that causes that symptom.

The wife's bike did this from new after being charged, but often sorted itself out if left for a day or so after charging.
Because we have essentially the same bikes, we could easily swap batteries and chargers around and we proved that it was actually a faulty battery, or rather faulty battery internal control.
It appears that the battery power output is 'turned off' whilst charging because it's in charging mode. When charging is finished there's effectively a message from the charger to say 'end charging mode, allow operation mode', hence having to turn off the mains before unplugging. This allows the power output to be turned on again.
It was this that was faulty in the wife's bike and after three months of wrangling with the lbs, who were adamant that it would be the charger despite it still being faulty on my charger, as well as their own charger.

It was this reason that I looked at the CAN messages on the bus to see if I could see what was going on, partly to demonstrate to the shop that I'm not actually an idiot.

Their rationale for it being the charger was based on no more than the fact that they'd had a few faulty chargers but no faulty batteries previously.


My own bike had a similar but sporadic battery issue where if I rode for a few miles after being charged and then left it for an hour or so (having lunch for example), it would display the same symptom of turning off immediately after powering up. Swapping the batteries between the two bikes and the fault went with the battery to the wife's bike, and then back to my bike when returned; so there was no question that it was the battery.

However, after a firmware update it hasn't done it since in probably 12 months, thankfully.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Hi Pal,
Indeed, it was well worth mentioning, thanks for that.
I had a very similar problem with my MY20 soon after I bought it, and that required a warranty battery.

In the video I am just trying to show a test rig really and showing that in this case it was indeed the motor as I have a fully working bike and two batteries as well as multiple looms and controllers. However, I didnt mention i also had two batteries, so good catch pal. Thank you.

Ive edited the opening post to reflect that clearly and also added my part 2 and 3 videos to it.

 

[malc101]

This is interesting quote from an AU member of the Giant Facebook group. Wow!

“Had an interesting conversation with my local Giant dealer’s chief mechanic today. Apparently Giant are fully aware of the water ingress issues and have developed a cover for the battery contacts. However, this is going to be rolled out in Europe and NZ first as they are “wetter”. Apparently they don’t realise that washing your bike in a “dry” country is also an issue!
Watch this space.

Poor bugger has just come back to work after contracting Covid and he has several eMTBs in the shop with water ingress issues (we are having a very wet Summer down here in Australia). Don’t envy him. Anyway he recommends a dab of electrical conductive grease around the contacts as added protection in the interim
“

 

[cappuccino34]

This is interesting quote from an AU member of the Giant Facebook group. Wow!

“Had an interesting conversation with my local Giant dealer’s chief mechanic today. Apparently Giant are fully aware of the water ingress issues and have developed a cover for the battery contacts. However, this is going to be rolled out in Europe and NZ first as they are “wetter”. Apparently they don’t realise that washing your bike in a “dry” country is also an issue!
Watch this space.

Poor bugger has just come back to work after contracting Covid and he has several eMTBs in the shop with water ingress issues (we are having a very wet Summer down here in Australia). Don’t envy him. Anyway he recommends a dab of electrical conductive grease around the contacts as added protection in the interim
“

Yes, the giant solution is a little rubbery 'comb' like thing. It does help with water splashing up from below but doesn't help with water going in around the catch and running down the channel on top of the battery, seemingly designed to guide the water on to the contacts.

 

[malc101]

Yes, the giant solution is a little rubbery 'comb' like thing. It does help with water splashing up from below but doesn't help with water going in around the catch and running down the channel on top of the battery, seemingly designed to guide the water on to the contacts.

Seems like some gaffers tape by the catch would solve that. Fugly but functional. My winter downtube protector made from a wetsuit leg covers the latch and the motor skirt. I’ll make a less insulated one for summer. Slightly fugly as well.

 

[malc101]

Seems like some gaffers tape by the catch would solve that. Fugly but functional. My winter downtube protector made from a wetsuit leg covers the latch and the motor skirt. I’ll make a less insulated one for summer. Slightly fugly as well.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Hi Malc,
you can buy a cover that fits a trance to perfection on Amazon.
This is the only recent pic on my phone i have with it on, I took it on yesterdays ride.

 

[cappuccino34]

Seems like some gaffers tape by the catch would solve that. Fugly but functional. My winter downtube protector made from a wetsuit leg covers the latch and the motor skirt. I’ll make a less insulated one for summer. Slightly fugly as well.

 

[cappuccino34]

I bought a neoprene downtube cover which helps immensely. I fitted some big eyelets into it to go over the bottle cage mounts so I can mount my lights battery to a bottle cage.

I also squished some blutak around the wires and cables above the battery but left the waxy paper on the battery-facing side, so the blutak doesn't stick to the battery. This stops any water that does get into the battery cavity from being channelled onto the connector by the recess channel in the top of the battery.

Putting some adhesive backed foam at an angle across the back of the battery would probably work just as well, to direct the water down the sides, rather than down to the bottom.

 

[woollettg]

Nothing pal. It’s still under warranty.
Its all done now as my LBS aare awesome and have me back on teh bike same day parts land.

She is up and running again and heading back to the mountains tomorrow ! ??

My motor developed play as shown in the video after 3,500 kms. My bike was almost out of warranty. My LBS submitted a claim. Giant came back saying the problem was caused by pedal strike. They said they would replace the motor as a one time thing. Has anyone else experienced this? I now have a new motor fitted. Not looking forward to when it happens next...

 

[cappuccino34]

My motor developed play as shown in the video after 3,500 kms. My bike was almost out of warranty. My LBS submitted a claim. Giant came back saying the problem was caused by pedal strike. They said they would replace the motor as a one time thing. Has anyone else experienced this? I now have a new motor fitted. Not looking forward to when it happens next...

At least they replaced it, even if the excuse for the fault was BS.

I complained about motor noise from the start and got fobbed off. "Let it develop, some of them are just noisy" which suggests to me that there's a big problem with quality control, but we all know that now.

It got worse. "Let it develop some more" in the end I got pissed off with being messed around and paid to have it's bearings changed by Performance Line Bearings and it's much better now. It's still noisier than the wife's bike but it's the best it's been.

This is why I'll never buy another Giant.

 

[woollettg]

Expecting a seal on a bearing to seal the unit from mud & water is beyond belief. Is there a way of retrofitting a seal to give it some protection? Otherwise I'm pondering whether or not to get rid of it. The warranty so far for me has given me a replacement bike, 3 speed cables and now a motor. Now I'm on my own. Do I swallow a rat and go back to an analog bike or move onto another brand. They're all horrifically expensive. Are specialized ones any better?

 

[cappuccino34]

Expecting a seal on a bearing to seal the unit from mud & water is beyond belief. Is there a way of retrofitting a seal to give it some protection? Otherwise I'm pondering whether or not to get rid of it. The warranty so far for me has given me a replacement bike, 3 speed cables and now a motor. Now I'm on my own. Do I swallow a rat and go back to an analog bike or move onto another brand. They're all horrifically expensive. Are specialized ones any better?

I think Spesh reliability is actually much worse ( SL models excepted) but their support is exceptional. My neighbour has had three motors, new wiring, two TCUs, a battery and a few other bits in just a year. Absolutely no quibble though and all issues have been fixed really quickly, unlike my Giant experiences.

Hopefully the '22 Spesh bikes will be more reliable, but I'm not willing to risk my money on something with such a poor track record until they prove themselves to be reliable.

 

[Jaspy]

Great info here, thanks guys

 

[malc101]

Hi Malc,
you can buy a cover that fits a trance to perfection on Amazon.
This is the only recent pic on my phone i have with it on, I took it on yesterdays ride.

View attachment 80354

 

[malc101]

Thanks Stu!

 

[Evolution Stu]

Anytime mate.
You may find my battery firmware topic of interest as well.

I will have some updates to this crazy bike situation and plan to create a water-roofing tutorial as soon as I get some time relief from work and unwell relatives. At the moment any downtime I get I try to spend actually riding the bike whilst it still works.

 

[Evolution Stu]

We do have a solution for this issue, we have two seals in test. If we can prove they don't cause extra wear or battery drain, we will be manufacturing them for early next year

Hi,
How did the testing go? Are we looking hopeful?

 

[woollettg]

Can you post a Link from Amazon for the down-tube cover?

 

[Evolution Stu]

Can you post a Link from Amazon for the down-tube cover?

Here you go.

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi,
How did the testing go? Are we looking hopeful?

Right hand seal is possible and designed, just speaking with the manufacturers, nothing for the left hand side yet. Got side tracked by many other things!

 

[Evolution Stu]

Right hand seal is possible and designed, just speaking with the manufacturers, nothing for the left hand side yet. Got side tracked by many other things!

I know the feeling mate, I’ve so many 75% finished jobs on my list. I am constantly chastising myself for trying to do too much and need to just stop dead and tackle one thing at a time.

Sadly, self employment just doesn’t work like that eh mate?

Your solution is already 100% better than what’s available now. I look forward to being able to use it, whatever it may be.

 

[malc101]

I know the feeling mate, I’ve so many 75% finished jobs on my list. I am constantly chastising myself for trying to do too much and need to just stop dead and tackle one thing at a time.

Sadly, self employment just doesn’t work like that eh mate?

Your solution is already 100% better than what’s available now. I look forward to being able to use it, whatever it may be.

Sometimes the answer is to take a break from the self employment world and work for a mega company. Then you can come to work, shuffle a few papers, smile at Zoom meetings, (when a stupid idea is being discussed) and keep your bike project folder just underneath the corporate synergy plan that you’ve been directed to read.

 

[Chris ledger]

I spoke to my local giant this week before looking to buy a giant e reign bike and he told me giant are opening an e motor repair centre very shortly to do repairs rebuilds etc

 

[malc101]

I spoke to my local giant this week before looking to buy a giant e reign bike and he told me giant are opening an e motor repair centre very shortly to do repairs rebuilds etc

Good that they are doing this but if I need work I’ll send it to Bearing’Man for a repair with upgraded parts.

 

[malc101]

Good that they are doing this but if I need work I’ll send it to Bearing’Man for a repair with upgraded parts.

And I really don't want factory workers fixing my stuff. It is just like bring a car back to the dealer for a transmission replacement, when they replace it with the same failure-prone transmission for your later enjoyment. What Giant and other companies should do is sell the parts for the motors and have some detailed service procedures. I have no idea what they do with failed motors, but it is a disgrace if they are throwing the various shafts and parts away.