Giant reign 2022 frame cracking

[Redlemon]

4 giant frames replaced by J E James in Rotherham over a 2 month period at the beginning of this year. All were either a trance, or reign ebikes and all done on warranty, plus all the others that I've read about on here, something is obviously wrong in the design of these bikes.

I was referring to cracked rocker cases only.

Picked up my bike yesterday, claim & repair took 8 business days total which is pretty quick.

 

[Rmh1]

I was referring to cracked rocker cases only.

Picked up my bike yesterday, claim & repair took 8 business days total which is pretty quick.

Sorry misunderstood you.
After replacing the rear shock twice, I was told that another design fault with the bike is that the bottom of the rear shock does not have any bearings, which is correct, and this doesn't allow any flexibility, which causes stress to other parts of the frame and rocker arm.
Could be the cause of bearings collapsing in the rocker arms?

 

[trailaddict]

This is nonsense! The bottom of the rear shock is connected with an axle with two bearings in the frame, and another two bearings in the lower rocker arm. Hence there is no need for the shock to have bushings. This is clever design and a feature of the Maerstro Suspension Linkage.
If one has no clue, please sh**t up

 

[Rmh1]

This is nonsense! The bottom of the rear shock is connected with an axle with two bearings in the frame, and another two bearings in the lower rocker arm. Hence there is no need for the shock to have bushings. This is clever design and a feature of the Maerstro Suspension Linkage.
If one has no clue, please sh**t up

Wow, must be a sales person for giant.

 

[trailaddict]

Just disassemble the rear end, then you will understand how it works.
And if you still think the Lbs is right than I'd looking for another dealer

 

[Rmh1]

Just disassemble the rear end, then you will understand how it works.
And if you still think the Lbs is right than I'd looking for another dealer

Not lbs, was a fox suspension technician, but what would he know.

 

[Planemo]

TBF the older Maestro systems didn't have a lower shock ballrace as they didn't share the lower shock mount with the linkage. Maybe thats where the confusion is coming in. But for sure, anything recent is shared with the bearings in the linkage as @trailaddict says.

 

[Rmh1]

TBF the older Maestro systems didn't have a lower shock ballrace as they didn't share the lower shock mount with the linkage. Maybe thats where the confusion is coming in. But for sure, anything recent is shared with the bearings in the linkage as @trailaddict says.

Can't comment on older models, but these were all 2022 bikes.

 

[Planemo]

I think the last of the old system was around 2007/2008 so not exactly recent

 

[trailaddict]

I have / had 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 Reign and Trance Advanced Models, and the Maestro Rear suspension design is exactly the same on all of them. I'm doing a bearing service at least once a year and hence claim I do have a bit of experience how it works and things are held togehter. There is no rotation inside the lower shocks eyelet, nor does the axle turn. Its only the bearings.
But back to the topic: I can imagine the rocker fails if there is to often a harsh bootom out or the upper bearings are worn and hence the rocker has to take additional forces. On all of my five Giant E-MTBs that has been never an issue, nor did I face the filler crack problem on my 2022 Reign e+.

 

[emtbeast]

I have been following this thread and at some point I just muted it, recently did a follow up on the situation and decided to write now what I intended back then.

In 2019 Giant's predictions towards the end of the year were 600000 sold ebikes. As we all know the ebike market since then only grew till begin of 2023 when it slowed down a bit(war, increasing living costs, etc...).

Giant had 8 e-bike models in 2019.

So let's take the 2019 numbers for a simple example calculation.

Divide 600000 by 8 models we get 75000 sold units per model. I would think the emtb models probably get a higher sold percentage, but OK.

Say we have 75000 Reigns out there in the woods riding around.

If I count all the crack/broken frame reports here, on the German forum, Pedelec German forum, 2 Fb groups(some of the reports are probably the same people), I honestly can't count more than a 100.

Let's take there are more out there that don't use social media for help etc...and raise this number by 400 cases

Now together 500 cases divided 75000 equals only 0,66 % of all bikes sold.

If we take the original number of 100 this percentage drops to 0,13 %.

Just for your imagination, Giant ebike manufacturing is an industrial process, the cases we se reported here a just glitches in the process(human error and probably some also user error(not reading or respecting the user manual).

Unfortunately the demand for ebikes is huge so the pressure on manufacturers to keep up with competition is also and so mistakes happen.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[trailaddict]

Amen @emtbeast - thats a very good conclusion and I agree 100 % to it. I work in IT, and hardware related failure rates below 1% are prime.

 

[Mikerb]

A lot of assumptions in that analysis and does not take account of the biggest variable which is how bikes are used by different types of riders and the different environment in which they are used. Many bikes are used beyond their intended use/classification which in itself may not cause problems if the rider is very competent and rarely if ever crashes or suffers harsh landings, but that may not be the case always! Add to that bikes that are modified to increase their capability, often changes of suspension type or travel which may or may not push other components of the bikes beyond their limits.
How bikes ( especially emtbs) are cleaned and maintained....or not....clearly also has an impact and it is likely to be a very different life for a bike ridden in California compared to one ridden in Scotland!

 

[emtbeast]

A lot of assumptions in that analysis and does not take account of the biggest variable which is how bikes are used by different types of riders and the different environment in which they are used. Many bikes are used beyond their intended use/classification which in itself may not cause problems if the rider is very competent and rarely if ever crashes or suffers harsh landings, but that may not be the case always! Add to that bikes that are modified to increase their capability, often changes of suspension type or travel which may or may not push other components of the bikes beyond their limits.
How bikes ( especially emtbs) are cleaned and maintained....or not....clearly also has an impact and it is likely to be a very different life for a bike ridden in California compared to one ridden in Scotland!

Agree totally, my intention was to present that the cases reported here&elsewhere and all the hype about how many there are and how it causes a a hype that there seems to be a fundamental flaw in all frames is just a "drop in the sea", and also if we incorporate your statements into the equation the percentage of the real manufacturing defects probably even drops more.

 

[Mikerb]

Well there are manufacturing defects.........and Giants supposed new invisible welding technique is one of them in my opinion, and there are just plain design or component poor selections. For example, cheap, poorly sealed bearings, totally ineffective knock blocks ( which should not be needed in the first place), headset cable routing that acts a s a route for water ingress into headset bearings, non compatable chainwheels and cranks on some EP8 motors, cheap and cheerful hub and freehub designs, carbon frames at bargain prices ( there is no such thing as a good cheap carbon frame). Carbon rear triangle on a full sus mountain bike??? No, too many forces in different directions for any lay up to cope with, let alone the inserts required and potential for damage.

 

[ilostmypassword]

Well there are manufacturing defects.........and Giants supposed new invisible welding technique is one of them in my opinion, and there are just plain design or component poor selections. For example, cheap, poorly sealed bearings, totally ineffective knock blocks ( which should not be needed in the first place), headset cable routing that acts a s a route for water ingress into headset bearings, non compatable chainwheels and cranks on some EP8 motors, cheap and cheerful hub and freehub designs, carbon frames at bargain prices ( there is no such thing as a good cheap carbon frame). Carbon rear triangle on a full sus mountain bike??? No, too many forces in different directions for any lay up to cope with, let alone the inserts required and potential for damage.

No bike design is perfect

 

[Donamici]

Think mine might be on the way out after 1.5 years. Going into Giant on Wednesday to be looked at.

With the various cracking issues has anyone ever seen or heard of the frame breaking at that location. I haven't.

 

[Redlemon]

Think mine might be on the way out after 1.5 years. Going into Giant on Wednesday to be looked at.

With the various cracking issues has anyone ever seen or heard of the frame breaking at that location. I haven't.

Which location exactly ?

 

[Donamici]

Mine just started showing signs of cracking after 18 months. New frame on the way in a few weeks.

 

[Jurassic]

Obviously by now there have been quite a lot of frame replacements but what I'm wondering is whether the replacement frames will just end up cracking as well?

 

[Donamici]

Obviously by now there have been quite a lot of frame replacements but what I'm wondering is whether the replacement frames will just end up cracking as well?

I was told the filler/weld area has been beefed up. Hard to belief they would not modify things in light of the failures.

 

[Acmac999]

I was told the filler/weld area has been beefed up. Hard to belief they would not modify things in light of the failures.

From a shop or a giant rep?

 

[Donamici]

From a shop or a giant rep?

The manager at my local Giant store.

 

[Donamici]

Quick update:

New frame built up (green). Interestingly it comes totally naked, every grommet and screw has to be moved across. It doesn't even come with the battery cover.

The bike started as a +1 and between the new frame and warranty factory X2 looks like a ghetto +0 now!

Anyway, my local giant store were outstanding, and she is ready to rock once again..

 

[trailaddict]

I love my "Ghetto" E+ 1 with Phantom Green Replacement Frame:

 

[shep]

I love my "Ghetto" E+ 1 with Phantom Green Replacement Frame:

Out of interest can you see any difference in the replacement frame ?

 

[trailaddict]

As already mentioned by me and others in this thread the frames are identical with no changes to the weld etc.
BTW: I did not have any cracking issue with my origin frame, just a little bit to much paint on the rocker/Seatstrays so it rubbed. Giant and LBS did a great Job sorthing this out and I do not look back to the lame grey

 

[shep]

As already mentioned by me and others in this thread the frames are identical with no changes to the weld etc.
BTW: I did not have any cracking issue with my origin frame, just a little bit to much paint on the rocker/Seatstrays so it rubbed. Giant and LBS did a great Job sorthing this out and I do not look back to the lame grey

Thanks, saved me going through 20 pages to catch up

 

[sprousaTM]

I love my "Ghetto" E+ 1 with Phantom Green Replacement Frame:

Hey mate,
whats the fender on the rear? That looks really cool and I was looking for one anyways.

 

[trailaddict]

@sprousaTM Mudhugger Race Front Long.