Giant Maestro Suspension: Does 27.5 vs 29 wheels make a difference?

[GrandPaBrogan]

I came across this video today - specific to the Giant REIGN Maestro Suspension. Certain aspects could also be applicable to the TRANCE in general.

Although the analysis is NOT for the electric versions of the Reign, it might give insight to those who are deliberating whether to go for the 27.5 or the 29 inch wheel size. With the Yamaha motor, the Reign E's might have a completely different chainstay length and geometry set-up... making this irrelevant. BUT it should be at least an interesting study of inherent behaviour of our beloved Maestro rear ends... including a comparative analysis against the DW link.

There's also some interesting revelations about the Maestro - that it may not be ideal for Coil rear shock conversions... but I've seen so many Giant owners do this.

Perhaps Reign E owners can chime in and add comment...

 

[Rusty]

All very subjective.
Whether 27.5 or 29 wheels I don't believe there is too much difference. There is more variation in how things work from running stupidly oversized or undersized tires as the lack of compression and rebound with undersized tires or the added compression and rebound with plus sized tires effects how the suspension works and therefore adjustment required.
As far as coil vs air - there is little difference between them these days. With the adjustibility of modern air suspension and the ability to add volume inserts to change the compression curve air suspension has progressed well. The coil spring suspension has always been more reliable and has better 'feel', but has also been heavier. If I was a youngster and into DH I would still go for coil springs - both front and rear but for XC it would be air all the way.
Like Levo owners, many Giant owners have converted to coil spring with improved [performance - usually because they have set the suspension up properly during the conversion but did not play around too much with their air spring setup.

I will say however that the Maestro design is a very good interpretation of the Horst link type - very much like that on the Scott. in my opinion. To be fair, I am a bit biased as I test rode a Horst Link MX bike decade ago and discussed the type quite a bit with different cycle and motocycle designers over the years. The Horst Link style suspension tends to give a lot better feel while under braking and also reacts to bumps while under braking as compared to single or twin link where suspension and braking forces are directed towards the headset tube.

 

[Gary]

I will say however that the Maestro design is a very good interpretation of the Horst link type

It's nothing like a horst link design. and there is no horst link in Maestro. Giant's first incarnation of Maestro was a blatant rip off of the D-W Link. Dave Weagle designed for bikes like the Ironhorse Sunday back in 2004. Weagle even tried to take Giant to court over it. It's still a rip off of it to this day but they get away with it because of differences in things like AS and AR numbers.

A horst link simply put is a pivot before the rear wheel axle on the chainstay (swingarm) of a 4 bar suspension design

Vitus, YT, Canyon etc. use this design

Maestro/DW link is a twin link design with a rear triangle swing arm suspended from both links. Similar to Santa cruz' VPP design.

Although Maestro is a good design Giant have chopped and changed and contradicted their own findings to back up their wheelsize preference so many times I couldn't even be bothered watching the video

As far as coil vs air - there is little difference between them these days.

Sorry, Rusty. I know what you're trying to say here but the difference is still massive and many frame designs favour one spring type hugely over the other for the best performance. ie.fitting a coil shock to certain frames designed to run an air shock can actually be a really bad idea.

 

[Rusty]

Meh - I consider the DW link a rip-off of Horst Leitners original design.
One has to remember that Horst originally designed his system for MX bikes then as what we know as MTB come into play his AMP research was at the forefront with several design revisions.

 

[Tony.OK]

On a slightly similar note, do you think slackening bike by means of mullet conversion changes characteristics of the rear link performance? Have finally been allowed on trails to test out the newly 29'd front end and am noticing the rear seems to not feel as planted as before, seeing this post has me questioning if slackening the whole bike has meant the maestro is now not at optimal load angle, the rear axle will be moving upwards at a sharper angle than stock changing forces on suspension movement, am surprised how much different it is and have had to lessen compression on shock by a bit.

 

[Rusty]

On a slightly similar note, do you think slackening bike by means of mullet conversion changes characteristics of the rear link performance?

Yes.
Mullet bikes are designed with the 29/27.5 and set up for that configuration.
Saying that, you can certainly adjust things to make it work more like it was designed to. Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago I was riding with he wasn't happy until he had flipped his chip even though he had played around with volume spacers and various settings. He was quite serious and was actually riding the same run time and again with different adjustments.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

On a slightly similar note, do you think slackening bike by means of mullet conversion changes characteristics of the rear link performance? Have finally been allowed on trails to test out the newly 29'd front end and am noticing the rear seems to not feel as planted as before, seeing this post has me questioning if slackening the whole bike has meant the maestro is now not at optimal load angle, the rear axle will be moving upwards at a sharper angle than stock changing forces on suspension movement, am surprised how much different it is and have had to lessen compression on shock by a bit.

Depends on the travel/fork sag won't it? Will you be running 150mm in the Front?

I mulleted my Giant with a 160mm fork and it feels fine