Fuel EXe Fuel EXe Suspension Modifications/Questions

[Swingset]

Yes. Just the one.

 

[MikeP]

Coil shock has arrived

Not sure what mounting hardware I'll need though... Coming off is the stock (9.5) Deluxe Select+ and going on is a Super Deluxe Coil. The user manual says the upper shock mount should be 54mm wide, which the trunnion mount of the coil appears to be; the lower shock mount should be 40mm wide apparently, and the new coil has 30mm hardware. Should I expect to be able to take the mounting hardware off the old air shock and fit it to the coil, or am I likely to need something different? Not done this before.

Cheers all.

 

[Swingset]

In family so probably yes. No harm in trying though.

 

[volts]

Coil shock has arrived

Not sure what mounting hardware I'll need though... Coming off is the stock (9.5) Deluxe Select+ and going on is a Super Deluxe Coil. The user manual says the upper shock mount should be 54mm wide, which the trunnion mount of the coil appears to be; the lower shock mount should be 40mm wide apparently, and the new coil has 30mm hardware. Should I expect to be able to take the mounting hardware off the old air shock and fit it to the coil, or am I likely to need something different? Not done this before.

Cheers all.

You use the old hw yes. You may need to press it out. If you don't have the equipment for that ask lbs or buy it.

 

[MikeP]

Thanks guys for the feedback, I got the coil fitted at the weekend:

It's a 62.5mm stroke unit, so I fitted it without the spring at first to see what the clearance is like between the seatpost and seat-stay bridge. This is it with me sitting on it (so compressing the bottom-out bumper a bit):

I couldn't really measure it with the wheel in place but I'd say there was about 12mm gap (mino-link in low). I'd think a 65mm stroke would be ok, but I'm not sure how much the bottom-out bumpers compress on a hard landing - could be tight.

Anyway, the test ride went ok, it feels marginally better than the standard Deluxe Select+ unit. I'm pretty sure the 400lb spring is a touch too stiff, it feels firm to ride, and I only just get 25% sag. I looked at Cane Creek's website and the formula they recommend for choosing a spring says to take the leverage ratio at 30% travel (2.4 according to the chart posted by @BiGJZ74 in post #90) and multiply by rider weight (180lb in my case) giving 432lb. I'm not convinced.

I'm wondering if the lighter 350lb Rock Shox spring might be a little too soft. 375lb doesn't seem to be available, but there are various progressive options - of which I have zero experience. I seem to use full travel, but I've only got the hydraulic bottom out two clicks in, so maybe I don't need a progressive. Pearls of wisdom much appreciated!

 

[volts]

It depends on your riding style and where you ride, naturally, but I'd take a progressive coil any day. The frame is already barely progressive enough for me on my air rs super deluxe ln can with HBO running 15psi over recommended and max tokens and I can't imagine it being any good with a coil that isn't progressive.

 

[MikeP]

Whatever you buy you have to experiment with coil rate. I am on Ohlins platform what works amazing and it was noticeable from the very first minute on the bike (without setting up all adjustments) two negatives of coil - weight and linear characteristic. I ended up with CC progressive spring (400-488) as purchased based on web calculators 388 was too soft in second phase of travel, and used 456 was too stiff in first half of movement.

Hey Jabar. What spring rate did you start with? You mention 388, was it nice and sensitive in the initial stroke? I think we're similar weight (about 83Kg in my riding kit) and I find the Rock Shox 400lb spring a bit firm in the initial stroke, so interested as to how you found your 400-488 progressive compared to whatever you started with. I don't know if 400lb at the 'soft end' of a Cane Creek will feel exactly the same as my RS 400lb.

I'd go for a 375-460 progressive if such a thing existed, but not found an option in this range so far...

Thanks

 

[BiGJZ74]

Hey Jabar. What spring rate did you start with? You mention 388, was it nice and sensitive in the initial stroke? I think we're similar weight (about 83Kg in my riding kit) and I find the Rock Shox 400lb spring a bit firm in the initial stroke, so interested as to how you found your 400-488 progressive compared to whatever you started with. I don't know if 400lb at the 'soft end' of a Cane Creek will feel exactly the same as my RS 400lb.

I'd go for a 375-460 progressive if such a thing existed, but not found an option in this range so far...

Thanks

Check out Sprindex. They have a 340-380lb Adjustable spring which is basically 380lb. Spring with 20% progressivity that can be adjusted down to 340lb in 5lb increments. Also has a 390-430lb Adjustable spring which is basically 430lb, with 20% progressiveness.

 

[jabar1975]

Hey Jabar. What spring rate did you start with? You mention 388, was it nice and sensitive in the initial stroke? I think we're similar weight (about 83Kg in my riding kit) and I find the Rock Shox 400lb spring a bit firm in the initial stroke, so interested as to how you found your 400-488 progressive compared to whatever you started with. I don't know if 400lb at the 'soft end' of a Cane Creek will feel exactly the same as my RS 400lb.

I'd go for a 375-460 progressive if such a thing existed, but not found an option in this range so far...

Thanks

388 was super soft for me, very comfy but too easy to bottom out, next was 456 which was way to hard (zero “plushness”), but only once I bottom it out on quite big drop (that I did not expect ). Now I am on cc 400-488 and seems to be perfect (so far). If. I have to stick to no progressive one I would go for something around 410-420lbs. I read some articles the real hardness of coil could vary even between spring from same factory. Try to test different setup and buy used springs instead of paying $80-100 for one. If you are in CH I can provide you with 388 and 456 for tests (but not sure if size will be same)

 

[MikeP]

Check out Sprindex. They have a 340-380lb Adjustable spring which is basically 380lb. Spring with 20% progressivity that can be adjusted down to 340lb in 5lb increments. Also has a 390-430lb Adjustable spring which is basically 430lb, with 20% progressiveness.

That's a great suggestion, might have to give that a try

 

[MikeP]

388 was super soft for me, very comfy but too easy to bottom out, next was 456 which was way to hard (zero “plushness”), but only once I bottom it out on quite big drop (that I did not expect ). Now I am on cc 400-488 and seems to be perfect (so far). If. I have to stick to no progressive one I would go for something around 410-420lbs. I read some articles the real hardness of coil could vary even between spring from same factory. Try to test different setup and buy used springs instead of paying $80-100 for one. If you are in CH I can provide you with 388 and 456 for tests (but not sure if size will be same)

Thanks for the offer, I don't get to CH as much as I'd like, and even then usually to the east.
I'd be a bit concerned that the 400-488 could be a little firm, so perhaps I'll take the plunge with the Sprindex suggested above...

 

[jabar1975]

Thanks for the offer, I don't get to CH as much as I'd like, and even then usually to the east.
I'd be a bit concerned that the 400-488 could be a little firm, so perhaps I'll take the plunge with the Sprindex suggested above...

Just bear in mind frame is linear and ready to work with progressive air shock, coil is super linear therefore it will be always a compromise with standard spring

 

[Rorschach84]

I'm running the RS Select on the 9.5 and looking for something with more volume - I'm 110kg geared up so it gets overloaded pretty quickly.
I'm not attached to a particular brand, but paying AUD1k for a shock is pretty out there, particularly when my Durolux cost me AUD600 and is such a good bit of kit
Has anyone run a Bomber Air or a DVO Topaz 3 on the EX-e yet? These are significantly cheaper over here and look a bit simpler. An RS Super Deluxe is a touch under 1k, but a Fox Factory X2 or new RS Vivid is >1.1k!

 

[volts]

I'm running the RS Select on the 9.5 and looking for something with more volume - I'm 110kg geared up so it gets overloaded pretty quickly.
I'm not attached to a particular brand, but paying AUD1k for a shock is pretty out there, particularly when my Durolux cost me AUD600 and is such a good bit of kit
Has anyone run a Bomber Air or a DVO Topaz 3 on the EX-e yet? These are significantly cheaper over here and look a bit simpler. An RS Super Deluxe is a touch under 1k, but a Fox Factory X2 or new RS Vivid is >1.1k!

Fox X2 requires a lot of special tools and they blow up all the time. They are quite unreliable.
The new RS vivid air also requires a lot of tools, and we don't know anything about reliability. RS usually have weird tunes.
I'm not really sure what you mean by shock getting overloaded. Do you mean it gets how and you want one with more oil? Because larger air can doesn't mean it can handle longer runs or more weight, it means it is more linier, which could in fact be the opposite of what you need.
I'm running an RS SD ult with HBo and I think it's doing a decent job. I would not get the vivid air since it's going to be one of those shocks that are expensive to get serviced or you have to buy expensive tools, and the frame does not need a linier shock. It needs a shock with some ramp up, which is also why I would never consider running a coil without HBO and a progressive spring on this frame.

 

[Rorschach84]

Fox X2 requires a lot of special tools and they blow up all the time. They are quite unreliable.
The new RS vivid air also requires a lot of tools, and we don't know anything about reliability. RS usually have weird tunes.
I'm not really sure what you mean by shock getting overloaded. Do you mean it gets how and you want one with more oil? Because larger air can doesn't mean it can handle longer runs or more weight, it means it is more linier, which could in fact be the opposite of what you need.
I'm running an RS SD ult with HBo and I think it's doing a decent job. I would not get the vivid air since it's going to be one of those shocks that are expensive to get serviced or you have to buy expensive tools, and the frame does not need a linier shock. It needs a shock with some ramp up, which is also why I would never consider running a coil without HBO and a progressive spring on this frame.

Sorry, poor wording.
Something with a piggyback reservoir

 

[volts]

Sorry, poor wording.
Something with a piggyback reservoir

Ok no problem, just wanted to ask what you meant so there wasn't a misunderstanding.
I can recommend the rs sd ult with hbo, but make sure you get the one with hbo. Sadly mara pro doesn't fit, otherwise that would have been my first choice even if it doesn't feature a hbo.

 

[MikeP]

... It needs a shock with some ramp up, which is also why I would never consider running a coil without HBO and a progressive spring on this frame.

^^^ this is a good point. I recently switched to a RS shock with HBO + Sprindex coil, and while it's got a lovely soft feel compared to the stock 9.5 air shock, it does bottom out a lot. I never feel it bottom out but the bumper is always pushed to the end after riding, even with the HBO set to max.
I really like the way it rides, but maybe a really well setup air shock could give best of both worlds...

 

[steve_sordy]

Maybe the O-ring is loose and it falls down when is perfectly aligned and with a little bit of lube on the stanchion? I had one after my first service. Fixed on the second service.

 

[ragetty]

Maybe useful to someone here …

After initially hugely missing the subtle/capable/buttery feel of my trusty 2014 Intense Tracer T275 (with 2015 Marzocchi NCR & 2017 Float X2, giving 160mm f/r), my Fuel EXe 9.8 XT with stock RS front (Charger 3) & rear is finally starting to feel the same. How did I get there?

+ I finally found a local trail that yields rapid Shockwiz results - basically a fast, fire road accessed, part big root trail, which seems to give Shockwiz everything it needs in a single loop. Love it or hate it, but Shockwiz gives usable results for me.

+ I upped the fork to 160mm and used 5wt. oil in the rebuild (as opposed to the recommended RS Maxima Plush Dynamic Light which is 7,5wt.). Rider weight is 71/72 kg ready to ride – I‘ve gone the ‚lighter oil‘ route in every fork I own, and it has always paid off.

+ Even though the shock has no adjustable compression, Shockwiz requires no changes and it feels good to me.

Certainly now no immediate need to try other suspension components for a while – I am sure there is still some fine tuning to go.

The bike has 370km on the clock. FWIW, thrashing it over this trail 20 times has likely also helped loosen things up. Also, after repeatedly pinging the rims on roots, I realized I need another 2-3psi in the tyres (anyone else know this rule: snakebite + 0.2 bar?).

 

[Emailsucks98]

So, been talking to Craig at Avalanche about custom tuning for this bike, He knows quite a lot. Most of the info is here.
Just the initial stuff:

• The EXe has a 16.5% progression ratio. This is about the minimum for coil-compatibility, he says. Requires some sort of bottom-out control. Totally makes sense to me, this is why I've got my Ohlins TTx1 stuffed with spacers and still bottoming out at 30% sag.
• The clearances on this bike are tighter than I realized. I can see that the Ohlins TTX and EXT E-storia have advantages here, with their sideways (transverse?) reservoirs. We should all be very careful with over-stroking this frame, as even with a lot of 205x60mm shocks, reservoir will hit the downtube at full compression. This is compounded (literally) by coil shocks which use full travel more easily.

 

[volts]

• The EXe has a 16.5% progression ratio. This is about the minimum for coil-compatibility, he says. Requires some sort of bottom-out control. Totally makes sense to me, this is why I've got my Ohlins TTx1 stuffed with spacers and still bottoming out at 30% sag.

Yeah that's what I have been saying the whole time.

Regarding coil, even with HBO you might have some trouble (or at least less than ideal suspension) since you will spend too much time end of the stroke because you blow through midstroke too easily and if you go a spring rate higher you will loose the whole idea of having a coil.
With this frame you basically need a somewhat progressive shock and a large volume air can / coil shock isn't ideal unless you mostly ride flow or at lower speed.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Yeah that's what I have been saying the whole time.

Yep, me too. The Ohlins TTx1 checks all the boxes. As do the stock shocks on the upper models, I suppose.
My Ohlins needs service and I'd like a spare, but I may just come full-circle.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Here's a clearance check with a 205x62.5mm Bomber CR. Reservoir hits the downtube with the BO bumper compressed as shown. A 205x60 should not work either. Craig at Avalance will chop 1cm off the reservoir, replace the damping entirely, and add a large conical bottom-out bumper with cup. Basically everything that can be done to add progression.

 

[jabar1975]

With Öhlins ttx22 there is no possibility to touch frame by reservoir.

 

[Rorschach84]

Anyone using a Float X2? Seen a brand new one for a steal!

 

[volts]

Anyone using a Float X2? Seen a brand new one for a steal!

Buy 2.
And bring the second one on every trip.

 

[DancingWithMyself]

Yeah that's what I have been saying the whole time.

Regarding coil, even with HBO you might have some trouble (or at least less than ideal suspension) since you will spend too much time end of the stroke because you blow through midstroke too easily and if you go a spring rate higher you will loose the whole idea of having a coil.
With this frame you basically need a somewhat progressive shock and a large volume air can / coil shock isn't ideal unless you mostly ride flow or at lower speed.

I ride mine pretty hard at 210 lbs and have been happy with progressive coil on a Hazzard at 62.5. "Coil sag" of about 25% and not having to rely too heavily on HSC.

Have tried a linear spring. Definitely no bueno.

I didn't like the float X at all and, by sheer luck, the Hazzard I run on my bigger "trip bike" fit. But I'd be curious about a Super Deluxe Ultimate for local trails. Does anyone happen to know what tune trek is speccing? Ridiculously hard to get that sort of info from Trek.

 

[ragetty]

The RS Trailhead app doesn’t show you what you need?

 

[TheQuantumLoser]

Anyone using a Float X2? Seen a brand new one for a steal!

Yes, I run one on my 9.5. I will agree they are unreliable with the =<2021 model years. But, you can buy a 2021 and have a suspension shop replace the entire damper body with the improved 2023 version for 45$ when open for a rebuild, which solves a lot of issues.
They need service every year or they will die, but if you keep them clean, they are so nice. It is also compatible with the 205x65 overstroke, because the reservoir doesn’t hit the frame, giving a really nice 152mm travel.

 

[Rorschach84]

Yes, I run one on my 9.5. I will agree they are unreliable with the =<2021 model years. But, you can buy a 2021 and have a suspension shop replace the entire damper body with the improved 2023 version for 45$ when open for a rebuild, which solves a lot of issues.
They need service every year or they will die, but if you keep them clean, they are so nice. It is also compatible with the 205x65 overstroke, because the reservoir doesn’t hit the frame, giving a really nice 152mm travel. View attachment 124591

Nice, thanks. this is a brand new 2024 factory which was sent as a warranty replacement, but the guy has moved to coil so was selling it on. Hasn't even been installed yet.