Frame size

[enCrypt]

Hi All,
Newb here, been riding clockwork bikes for around 10 years, but only had two hardtail bikes, ever.
I have asthma and turned 50 this year and I'm around 85Kg so the hills are not getting any easier, hence I want to go for a full sus trail type E-MTB next.

My question is re frame sizes, I'm in between sizes for most brands at 6 foot 2 (32" inside leg)
My current bike is a Trek Excaliber 8 hardtail which is a Large (well, 18.5 virtual, 19.5 actual or some ridiculous thing that Trek do)
On this bike I've never really felt too comfortable, my saddle is all the way forward on the rails, I have 4 spacers under the stem and I still feel too stretched out, hands too low, resulting in a sore lower back after about an hour riding (the stem is about 90mm... which might not help)
And it feels VERY sketchy going down anything other than a gentle slope!

I'm wondering that because I have to have the seat pretty high, it pushes you back more (because of the seat tube angle) so should I maybe be on an XL which would raise the bars a bit too?

The old advice used to be as long as you could stand over the top tube with feet on the ground and have no interference to the crown jewels then that was your size!
As I'm about to drop a lot of cash on an E-MTB (when my LBS can get 2021 models!) I need to be sure I'm ordering the correct frame size.
There are only 2 / 3 bike shops where I live (Isle of Man) and I don't think I've ever seen an XL in any of them to try, plus there aren't a lot of bikes in stock anywhere at the moment due to the pesky virus...

I've seen some people say you should size up, but is it the same rule with E-MTBs?
Anyone the same size as me have any advice?

Thanks,
Mark...

 

[Bellefield]

Hi Mark,

I used to have the same issues as you (also 6' 2") with one of my old HT's, it was a cannondale and it was stretched out. I also put spacers in and tried everything but it was made for riding like you were stretched out like superman. I sold it in the end, and bought a 29er that had a higher stack (so I sat up more) and a shorter reach so I didn't have to lean as far forward to hold the bars. I bought an ebike that has a similar stack and reach and I've loved it. Oh, and the standover height is still important by the way, especially if you care about your lovespuds.

I suggest that you borrow a demo bike and give it a whirl.

 

[enCrypt]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
Yeah my current bike is a 29er XC bike which I guess makes it feel more stretched out.
I guess a Trail type bike in Large will be a more upright seating position, but I don't know?
I've never even ridden a full sus before so there's hopefully something a lot more comfy (and powered) out there for me!

What size / model of bike do you ride if you don't mind me asking?

Only ever having 2 bikes I'm not experienced with all the geometry measurements either so its a bit difficult when I'm reading specs...

Probably unlikely to get any demo rides at the moment over here, very low stock in all of the shops...

 

[Bellefield]

even if they have little in stock, they can help you chose something a little more upright. Looking at your trek, the stack is 60.8cm which is quite lows for me, and the reach is 45.1cm, which is not too bad, but more than I'd like.

I bought a Giant Fathom e+2 Pro 29er, in size large, its a hard tail but it suits me. The stack is a bit higher than yours at 63.5cm and the reach is slightly closer at 43cm. I find this really comfortable in general.

Not sure which Full Suspension ebikes would match that, however Scott do say that the geometry of their e-ride strike is built for a more "comfort" position.

 

[flash]

Bike geometery has changed a lot in the last 4-5 years. So I think you need to be sized by your LBS, if you intend to buy a bike from them. I'd be going to all the local shops and sitting on bikes. Doesn't matter if they're accoustic. You'll still get an idea of the reach and stack you want. Bikes are getting longer and slacker but some people don't like being stretched out that much. It's a really personal thing.

You can always add a bit of front end height aftermarket. Riser bars or a longer airshaft in the fork can lift the front end. Bar width will change effective reach as well.

Gordon

 

[enCrypt]

@Bellefield I've only just noticed you're in the IOM too!
Did you get your Giant from Bikestyle then? and was it all before the stock problems before the pesky virus hit?

Mark...

 

[Bellefield]

@Bellefield I've only just noticed you're in the IOM too!
Did you get your Giant from Bikestyle then? and was it all before the stock problems before the pesky virus hit?

Mark...

Hi Mark, yes I got it from Bikestyle, but last summer. Had great service from them over the years and they are always willing to help out with my bikes.

funny enough, even last summer it was hard to get ebikes, although not as hard as it is now, but they were selling out quick and they sourced the last large frame for me in giants stock but it took a few weeks.

jay ??

 

[urastus]

I'm 5'11" on an xl, although in reality it is between a L and an XL. My seat is possibly just a bit higher than the hand grips. I also have the seat as far forward as it can go because I'm usually climbing or descending steep country; without this, I'd probably go a large. Are you comfortable in a good attack position? Like hovering just above the bars? I am. For a while I found I was getting a sore lower back that would take days (a week or so) to come good. Now I do some stretching (hamstring, glutes, adductors, lower back). The adductor stretch is awesome for getting on and off the bike...gracefully No more lower back pain. I also do sit ups and planks on days I don't ride, just for general versatility that helps in all aspects of life, as well as on the mtb. I'm around 80kg and 57. I only mention my age to convey that should not be a limiting factor; there are many fitter more skilled riders out there that are older than me. Despite accumulated chronic injuries etc, I generally don't see a need to mention age. For me it's only purpose is to justify limitations - I don't want to buy into that myself.

 

[enCrypt]

even if they have little in stock, they can help you chose something a little more upright. Looking at your trek, the stack is 60.8cm which is quite lows for me, and the reach is 45.1cm, which is not too bad, but more than I'd like.

I bought a Giant Fathom e+2 Pro 29er, in size large, its a hard tail but it suits me. The stack is a bit higher than yours at 63.5cm and the reach is slightly closer at 43cm. I find this really comfortable in general.

Not sure which Full Suspension ebikes would match that, however Scott do say that the geometry of their e-ride strike is built for a more "comfort" position.

Thanks for the measurements on your bike.
A Giant is actually top of my list at the moment when Bikestyle can get them (Trance X E+3 29er 2021)
Been doing a bit more reading on geometry in general and I found the following details for these new bikes...(the geometry table is a few pages down)

REVIEW | 2021 Giant Trance X E+ Pro 29 1 Talks the Torque

Mick Swings A Leg Over The Brand New 2021 Giant Trance X E+ Pro Giant Bicycles continues to evolve its electric mountain bike lineup with the arrival of a

flowmountainbike.com

I'm surprised at your measurements for a Large Fathom, the stack on the Large Trance is lower than yours and the reach is a lot longer than yours!
This has confused me even more!

 

[enCrypt]

I'm 5'11" on an xl, although in reality it is between a L and an XL. My seat is possibly just a bit higher than the hand grips. I also have the seat as far forward as it can go because I'm usually climbing or descending steep country; without this, I'd probably go a large. Are you comfortable in a good attack position? Like hovering just above the bars? I am. For a while I found I was getting a sore lower back that would take days (a week or so) to come good. Now I do some stretching (hamstring, glutes, adductors, lower back). The adductor stretch is awesome for getting on and off the bike...gracefully No more lower back pain. I also do sit ups and planks on days I don't ride, just for general versatility that helps in all aspects of life, as well as on the mtb. I'm around 80kg and 57. I only mention my age to convey that should not be a limiting factor; there are many fitter more skilled riders out there that are older than me. Despite accumulated chronic injuries etc, I generally don't see a need to mention age. For me it's only purpose is to justify limitations - I don't want to buy into that myself.

Thanks for the reply.
I do actually do a bit of stretching, planks and little light weight training (only once a week for the weights) but it does seem to help with those random middle aged aches and pains that seem to come from nowhere sometimes...

My seat is quite a bit higher than my grips, I get sore hands after a while too because of this, and I already have 4 spacers under the stem!
I dont have a dropper post and my post doesnt go anywhere near all the way down but its enough to feel fairly comfy in the "attack position" when going downhill but it could be better.
I'm confused on the sizes because being too stretched out implies that the reach is too long for me so I should be on a smaller frame not a larger one...but then a larger frame would give me higher "stack" and I wouldn't have to have the seat post quite as high, hence not as much weight on my hands etc...

I strongly suspect that its because my current bike is an XC bike from 2016 and a Trail bike from 2020 (2021) should be a lot comfier (I hope)

 

[urastus]

Just an idea, while you still have your trek bike. I still have a scott scale 50 circa 2012. It was originally a xc bike, and when new had a long stem. I imagine this was to get weight over the front wheel when climbing. I got the bike half price new to make way for new stock. Anyway that stem was one of the first things that went. That bike suits me well - I also changed the bar to something wider and higher. Basically it's more of a lightweight trail bike now. Is the stem on your trek also long? If so, are you able to try a shorter one? If you find a good fit on your existing bike it might help you. Especially if you plan on keeping the trek, for urban duties or as a backup.

 

[Bellefield]

I'm confused on the sizes because being too stretched out implies that the reach is too long for me so I should be on a smaller frame not a larger one...but then a larger frame would give me higher "stack" and I wouldn't have to have the seat post quite as high, hence not as much weight on my hands etc...

I strongly suspect that its because my current bike is an XC bike from 2016 and a Trail bike from 2020 (2021) should be a lot comfier (I hope)

HI Mark,

you are welcome to try out my Fathom, but bear in mind its a hardtail, but it will give you an idea of the geometry you are looking for (or not ) I think Stack is difficult to change effectively on a bike, whereas reach is easier to change.

As I said, my old cannondale was very stretched out, tried reducing the stem, raising the stem, increasing the angle on the riser bars, etc. Loved the bike but it was too uncomfortable and I also got pains from too much weight in my hands. Bought an orange clockwork 29er (that's not a similie for a non electric bike, it was the "clockwork") and the geometry was much better for me, in fact it is close to my electric fathom.

I recommend you speak to Bikestyle about trying out a Scott Stride e-ride as it is purpose built for having a more upright riding position, and the cube stereo 120 looks to have a more upright riding geometry. But you may as well ask if you can demo a trance. But also see if you can try out a Moterra neo at Eurocycles, as this has a higher stack also, although quite a long reach.