Thanks for your reply and advise. I cycled my fork as described with setting up my Shockwiz (with the wheel attached, but I extended it completely), it didn't change anything. Maybe the fork is too soft in the beginning and i should add some air, as it responds just to the weight of the bike (est. 22 kg)?! I'm going to measure the remaining travel, I wonder if its around 150 or 160 mm......
Fox 38 Harshness?
- Thread starter Gyre
- Start date
Thanks for your reply and advise. I cycled my fork as described with setting up my Shockwiz (with the wheel attached, but I extended it completely), it didn't change anything. Maybe the fork is too soft in the beginning and i should add some air, as it responds just to the weight of the bike (est. 22 kg)?! I'm going to measure the remaining travel, I wonder if its around 150 or 160 mm......
Just checked my Fox Factory 38s ( 180mm) on my Whyte E180 RS. Sit down under bike weight with front wheel slightly raised in a stand is a bout 2mm...............about what I would expect given SAG is set at 25% ( 45mm) for a combination of a proportion of my weight ( 79kg) and the bikes. PSI is 75.
Mcharza
E*POWAH BOSS
Okay, now you have one point checked.
Next add some air and go test riding. If you don't use full travel, maybe reduce some volume spacers.
And all other adjustment should be fully open. When you get correct sag, start adjusting compression and rebound.
Pyr0
E*POWAH Master
I measure my 160mm fox factory 36s at about 157mm weighted, but I also have a luftkappe installed who say not to rely on sag as its unreliable. *shrugs*
the only thing "unreliable" about setting SAG is the variability potentially created by the person doing it! Altering the negative air chamber (Luftkappe) marginally compared to the original design should not be necessary if the fork is set up properly.
Seems I'm not the only one with 38 issues
I had mine apart today and there is obvious wear on one of the pad things (what are they called please? Sit below inside the lowers below the wipers and the foam rings)
Like the fork is out of alignment or something. Would explain the stiction
I also get a knock. Do other people's do this?
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I had mine apart today and there is obvious wear on one of the pad things (what are they called please? Sit below inside the lowers below the wipers and the foam rings)
Like the fork is out of alignment or something. Would explain the stiction
I also get a knock. Do other people's do this?
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So having had a chance to look at 3 other people's 38's I can conclude that knocking is normal
I've tried a kenevo SL with elites like mine and they feel the same. Tried a factory 38 and the same noises and feeling to mine.
Reading the thread they need to be set 10 psi under what Spesh recommends and I agree with that. I didnt look at the calculator before I spent a good month adjusting mine and had almost the same settings (literally 1 click off if not the same) but found the pressure way way too harsh. I need 2 spacers to stop bottom outs.
I was going to buy some 170mm factory forks but I don't think I'll bother now. I have come from 160mm rockshox Pike Ultimates with SKF seals that I'd kept serviced regularly and they were buttery smooth. Small and high speed bumps were just eaten up with ease without a hint of fatigue in the hands or arms while remaining supportive. I will say the 38s handle jumps way better, much more composed deep into the travel. I'm doing stuff on this bike I'd never have done on the old one. Just can't stop comparing them to the Pikes
Might have to try the Zebb.....
e/
38's are off to TFT to see if i can have them size the bearings or figure out why they feel so shit.
I've tried a kenevo SL with elites like mine and they feel the same. Tried a factory 38 and the same noises and feeling to mine.
Reading the thread they need to be set 10 psi under what Spesh recommends and I agree with that. I didnt look at the calculator before I spent a good month adjusting mine and had almost the same settings (literally 1 click off if not the same) but found the pressure way way too harsh. I need 2 spacers to stop bottom outs.
I was going to buy some 170mm factory forks but I don't think I'll bother now. I have come from 160mm rockshox Pike Ultimates with SKF seals that I'd kept serviced regularly and they were buttery smooth. Small and high speed bumps were just eaten up with ease without a hint of fatigue in the hands or arms while remaining supportive. I will say the 38s handle jumps way better, much more composed deep into the travel. I'm doing stuff on this bike I'd never have done on the old one. Just can't stop comparing them to the Pikes
Might have to try the Zebb.....
e/
38's are off to TFT to see if i can have them size the bearings or figure out why they feel so shit.
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Zebs cracking.
seals were bone dry when I got the bike but once Serviced they're like my lyriks, sweet as.
I'm just figuring mine out atm with a luftcapp ready to fit, was thinking smashpot but doubt it's necessary.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Fox says to set the 38's sag at 20%, but until they say what method they use it is meaningless. I use my own method and 30% is perfect for me, 20% was waaaaay too firm.
I accept that if I changed the setting method then maybe I too would get 20% and find it acceptable.
Fox mean stood up holding the bars but with your weight centred through your pedals.
old plodders can run a lot more fork sag than senders and pinners increasing small bump performance and still rarely use too much travel.don't run much more then 30% though as you'll start losing support in corners and end up on your face at some point as the fork dives too much
rider weight makes a pretty big difference with how much sag you can run.
Biffers have to accept they're never going to have the same small bump performance as whippets can
old plodders can run a lot more fork sag than senders and pinners increasing small bump performance and still rarely use too much travel.don't run much more then 30% though as you'll start losing support in corners and end up on your face at some point as the fork dives too much
rider weight makes a pretty big difference with how much sag you can run.
Biffers have to accept they're never going to have the same small bump performance as whippets can
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
That would account for quite a bit of the difference. I must try that and see what %sag I get.
To me it makes most sense to set SAG on the forks using a your most used riding position. For me that is the ready or action position. I always set my forks at 25% SAG and my shock at 28 to 30%. I have found the brands recommended air pressure in shocks to be closer to the mark than forks...but generally ignore any recommended setting other than as a starting point.
Note that even the ready position can vary the amount of static weight on the fork just by applying more or less pressure on your hands and/or moving your torso further over the bars. I dont think that matters greatly as long as you are consistent. One way to achieve that consistency ( in the ready position) is to ensure the pedals are level and arms bent to the same degree each time.
I wouldn't worry about it.
so long as you can replicate the same position on the bike time after time however you are doing it is absolutely fine (for YOU).
and suspension manufacturers recommendations are just that. a middle of the road recommendation. fine as a base setting/starting point but by no means correct for everyone. I wouldn't run 20% on your fork either. I'd run less.
so long as you can replicate the same position on the bike time after time however you are doing it is absolutely fine (for YOU).
and suspension manufacturers recommendations are just that. a middle of the road recommendation. fine as a base setting/starting point but by no means correct for everyone. I wouldn't run 20% on your fork either. I'd run less.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
My Father introduced me to the merits of firm handshakes at an early age. I was proud of my firm grip, but never abused it. Then a mate of mine introduced me to his father-in-law. He was about 6'6" (1.98m) and wide with it in a fit looking way. He was a farmer, so I thought I'd better get in first with my grip. Turned out he had arthritis in his hands and I nearly put him on his knees. 
Thirty years later, I now know what it feels like as I have had to ask my son-in-law to tone down the enthusiasm of his handshakes with me!
Thirty years later, I now know what it feels like as I have had to ask my son-in-law to tone down the enthusiasm of his handshakes with me!
Handshakes need to die.
They're mainly initiated by wankers to show how much of a wanker they are.
Or the easily led
They're mainly initiated by wankers to show how much of a wanker they are.
Or the easily led
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Handshakes are a very old custom; originally, I believe to show that you could not draw your sword. Whatever the reason, shaking hands is a very old custom, even Chimps in the wild touch hands on meeting each other (make of that what you will). It is only the pandemic that has stopped handshakes and for good reason, to be replaced by fist bumps, by some. I liked handshakes; it was the first point of contact with someone new. It could tell you something about the person. It is a cultural thing but not restricted to the West either. It is such a polite yet harmless form of greeting, it can be brief or vigorous, at arm's length or close up, such a variety of methods to use.
I have no idea what could have happened to someone for them to form an opinion that one of the most common informal greetings in the western world is "initiated by wankers to show how much of a wanker they are".
The one custom that got out of control and has been firmly stamped upon by the pandemic is "the hug". Thank God for that!
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
I have just realised that some of you may be confused by my apparently random post about handshakes in a thread about suspension. Reason is simple; I posted in a thread where it was relevant but exited without pressing "post reply". When I went back in to try again, I got the wrong thread. My apologies. I lost my thread, but not my marbles, yet.
Haha.. I did wonder.
You've livened up an otherwise fairly dull thread anyway.
In a civilized equal world I'd ideally prefer my first point of contact to be eye contact. Preferably backed up with a genuine smile.
Not some neanderthal head fuck game of who has the strongest grip. (yes. I know a proper handshake should also involve eye contact).
And yeah it's still perfectly possible to headfuck someone with eye contact alone. If that's your aim.
You've livened up an otherwise fairly dull thread anyway.
In a civilized equal world I'd ideally prefer my first point of contact to be eye contact. Preferably backed up with a genuine smile.
Not some neanderthal head fuck game of who has the strongest grip. (yes. I know a proper handshake should also involve eye contact).
And yeah it's still perfectly possible to headfuck someone with eye contact alone. If that's your aim.
If a person is trying to squeeze my hand to a pulp on our first meeting, I can mark them down as a dick immediately without wasting time finding out during a conversation.
....@steve_sordy ...glad you cleared that up!! I agree a firm handshake is nice way to great other men...maybe not so good for ladies though! Nothing more horrible than a limp handshake or the type that is fingers only like the "royal" handshake. .......even worse...the masonic handshake.
Anyway...back to Fox 38s!!
38s back from TF Tuned. Issues with bearings excessive play one side and I think too tight the other
Buttery smooth. The difference actually made me laugh. You could breathe on the handlebars and they would break away. No noises. 4 clicks of HSR seemed to open up the damper and allow it to soak up and glide over chunder. LSR kept to about 4. Compression set to 0.
That was until I rode them in torrential rain tonight and now they just feel like they have a load of stiction and became noticeably harsh again.
Going to swap the oil out incase it ingested a load of water and sand. Tried hyper wipe and slick kick and didn't help
Seriously fed up with them.
Buttery smooth. The difference actually made me laugh. You could breathe on the handlebars and they would break away. No noises. 4 clicks of HSR seemed to open up the damper and allow it to soak up and glide over chunder. LSR kept to about 4. Compression set to 0.
That was until I rode them in torrential rain tonight and now they just feel like they have a load of stiction and became noticeably harsh again.
Going to swap the oil out incase it ingested a load of water and sand. Tried hyper wipe and slick kick and didn't help
Seriously fed up with them.
Talk to tf, I'm sure they'll inspect the wipers for ya
Once you have replaced the oil try running a mudguard for a bit of dust seal protection. There isn't much oil in them anyway so water and dirt being dragged in is going to do nothing positive for that nice first touch you are after.
Singletrackmind
Active member
Did you ever try the Vorsprung with Runt? Just ordered a Runt for my Fox 38. Any tips would be appreciated.
TF Tuned Lowers with the kashima uppers fitted. Feel great really. Some tuning to be done but really nice (think I'm at 100psi for 14stone with the recommended rebound and compression settings) Got that traction like feeling they are renowned for.
I do think the bushes in both my 38s are/were not right out the box so definitely something to look into if anyone's having issues. The TFT lowers make no noise at all when cycling them (other than air) where both lowers before TFT felt and sounded like they were rubbing
I'll keep these serviced regularly over winter. Obviously didn't like being ridden in heavy rain.
I do think the bushes in both my 38s are/were not right out the box so definitely something to look into if anyone's having issues. The TFT lowers make no noise at all when cycling them (other than air) where both lowers before TFT felt and sounded like they were rubbing
I'll keep these serviced regularly over winter. Obviously didn't like being ridden in heavy rain.
a properly designed front mudguard...even a small one like the Enduro guard.........helps to keep mud water and grit away from the seals on the fork.
Yes I agree
Gyre
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #119
For what it's worth, while I haven't yet taken apart the original 38 that was the subject of the post (very soon though), I prepped a different 38, replacing the tokens with a DSD Runt, burnishing the bushings, and checking the air shaft for excess grease. I haven't ridden it hard enough yet to compare apples to apples, but I'm cautiously optimistic about how it's behaving so far.
Singletrackmind
Active member
I've been really happy with the DSD RUNT on my YT Decoy. Able to run lower air chamber ~15psi less than I did with tokens and going with a 1-1.8 ratio. Excellent small bump compliance and does dive in turns. Echo what DSD says about changing psi in small increments as you dial thr runt in.
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