Flyon battery charging - Won't go to 100%

[Sidepod]

So as the title suggests, after a full charge the onboard display will only show 97% and the charger unit will not go to the final 3rd LED stage to show complete.
Even If I leave it over night, still 97%.

Will this get worse? Anyone else? Seems trivial but at some point I'm going to find myself 3% from home with a flat battery!

 

[Parker]

So as the title suggests, after a full charge the onboard display will only show 97% and the charger unit will not go to the final 3rd LED stage to show complete.
Even If I leave it over night, still 97%.

Will this get worse? Anyone else? Seems trivial but at some point I'm going to find myself 3% from home with a flat battery!

Your not alone - my mate has just picked up a allmtn 10 flynn 3 weeks ago and he is reporting it will only charge to 97% - He also observed that in eco mode in the winter - best he can get is 24-25 miles until battery is flat. Im not sure if this is by design limitation or if this is a faulty batch from the factory.

 

[Sidepod]

I charged it last night after a ride yesterday and it went up to 99% flickering briefly up to 100% upon removing the charger cable.

What I have noticed is the charging screen is intermittent. Sometimes I get the icon showing time remaining to full charge, sometimes I don’t. Last night I did and it went to 99%.

Despite the above, the charger unit still didn’t go to the fully charged indicator!

I wonder if it is temperature? I’ll take the battery out and leave it in the house for a few days before changing again.

 

[arawa]

My bike is kept in a garage in the north of Scotland; cold but not frosty at the moment. Charged from 53% to 100% with no problem the day before yesterday. The battery is one of the first Flyons but it has not been heavily used except twice being emptied completely.

 

[FullonFlyon]

Hi Sidepod did you get anywhere with this I just got an XDURO Adventur 5.0 before Christmas and noticed the same, i did have it charging in the house initially to 100% but then i have only seen ~97% since i put it in the garage where its generally cold, i thought perhaps its a run in on the battery and have used full charge a number of times but still see the same. I certainly get less distance out of the 630w battery too than my 3 year old Giant 500w e-explore.

 

[Sidepod]

No improvement yet, still only 97/98%. I’ve just got a second bike with the same battery so I’ll check that.

 

[FullonFlyon]

mine was 100% when I had the bike at first 11/12/20 then i first noticed at when i moved it out to the garage it was at 98% then after another ride only 97%. And now its 96%. So i brought it inside the warm but it did not seem to want to charge any more , now i have taken the battery out of the frame and noticed the battery indicator is at full charge so is it just the bikes software reporting the charge lower - it interested me to know it predicted your distance based on the rider profile so perhaps its also changing the battery stats , I will check with a DVM tomorrow pitty they don’t make these things with the battery BMS accessible so you can see if it’s a battery fault, charger fault or bike software but I don’t want to wait another 2 weeks and get only 90% . I also wrote to Haibike to see if they have anything to say.

 

[Sidepod]

Interesting. I spoke with the dealer and he said “they all do that” so a complete waste of time.
I did consider taking the top cover off
the battery to access the BMS. This, in theory, should allow testing of individual cells to see if any are beginning to fail. Time will tell I guess if this is a serious issue.

 

[FullonFlyon]

I guessed they may answer that but its clearly not the case as others report they get 100% most of the time, i supposed it could have been a battery safety thing not to go above 96% on most charges to conserve the battery but i doubt the charger is that sophisticated. I did hear the 10A one uses CAN bus to talk to the battery to step up the charging which is more sophisticated.

 

[Sidepod]

Hmmm. I understood the 10A chargers whilst quick were only intended to take the battery to 80% and were not that good for the battery long term.

 

[FullonFlyon]

Haibike says that they have no issue and no degradation using 10a charger to 100% on its own site but its a shame they are so expensive to buy one but i may get one at some point, I couldn’t read the battery with a dvm as its obviously got some protection that without comms the battery voltage is not on the pins, you see an instantaneous voltage but it shuts down. But then i managed to get 100% today ? I had tried charging the battery alone overnight but it was already full it still only got to 96% reported when i put it back in the bike. But since then in the warn the bike has charged up to 100%. So not sure why other than its warm in the hallway.

 

[Sidepod]

Ok so my second Flyon only went to 96% today. Ambient was 2deg so pretty cold.
I will try it in the house tomorrow.
I’m trying not to get annoyed about this. Given that I have two that are misbehaving I’m confident it’s a common mode issue and not just a stand alone fault. That could mean it’s a batch of production that are at fault or simply ambient temp.
The dealer I spoke to did say he’s never seen a standard charger go all the way to the third LED which I find difficult to compute as clearly Haibike didn’t design it that way.
Ive been looking for an excuse to buy a 10A charger so I may take the plunge. My main concern is this will accelerate to 92 90 80% etc over time.

 

[arawa]

Topped mine up today in a very cold (but not freezing) garage using the standard charger. Normally I would have stopped charging at about 85% but because of this thread I let it continue and it went to 100%.

 

[Sidepod]

Ok. How old is your battery?
I know the display is supposed to log the number of charge cycles but mine has read 22 for as long as as I’ve owned the bike!

Supercharger – When will we finally see proper eMTB quick chargers?

Whether it’s an electric car or a smartphone, fast charging is on everyone’s lips and is regarded as the key to the success of e-mobility. Unfortunately, there are still big differences in the charging times of eMTBs. Here is an overview of the status quo and what the future could hold. Using a...

ebike-mtb.com

The Flyon section here is quite informative.

 

[arawa]

Ok. How old is your battery?
I know the display is supposed to log the number of charge cycles but mine has read 22 for as long as as I’ve owned the bike!

Supercharger – When will we finally see proper eMTB quick chargers?

Whether it’s an electric car or a smartphone, fast charging is on everyone’s lips and is regarded as the key to the success of e-mobility. Unfortunately, there are still big differences in the charging times of eMTBs. Here is an overview of the status quo and what the future could hold. Using a...

ebike-mtb.com

The Flyon section here is quite informative.

It is a year old and I think it has always charged to 100% if I have left it that long. Not been heavily used (lockdowns and a fall) and except for twice running it flat I have tried to follow advice such as not storing it at 100% etc.

 

[Sidepod]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the useage profile?

I ride 2-3 times a week for an hour at a time. I always recharge after a ride although I can do two rides easily on a full (or 97%) charge.

I’ve only ever once run it completely flat.

 

[FullonFlyon]

Topped mine up today in a very cold (but not freezing) garage using the standard charger. Normally I would have stopped charging at about 85% but because of this thread I let it continue and it went to 100%.

what you’d actually do this often? I normally just come back from a ride and leave it to charge for the next day. So watching it to stop at 85% isn’t really an option

 

[arawa]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the useage profile?

I ride 2-3 times a week for an hour at a time. I always recharge after a ride although I can do two rides easily on a full (or 97%) charge.

I’ve only ever once run it completely flat.

I still have and mainly use my Haibike Hardseven. I keep the heavier Flyon for longer and harder trips when I am carrying a lot of kit. So it is usually charged beforehand and run down to say 20-40% then left at about 50% until needed again when it is fully charged before use.
But, my friend with the same aged bike has a different profile. He uses the bike several times a week and recharges each time. His bike also charges to 100%.
Both our bikes were amongst the first in the UK and perhaps (no real idea) have slightly different batteries to newer models???

 

[arawa]

what you’d actually do this often? I normally just come back from a ride and leave it to charge for the next day. So watching it to stop at 85% isn’t really an option

Our posts crossed. As I said above, I don’t use my Flyon that often and was told it is not good for the battery to leave it for long periods at 100%. If I don’t expect to use the bike for a while I leave it at 50% topping it up the night before use. If I don’t expect to need a full charge when I am going out I only charge to 85% ish. In fact, my last 2 charges to 100% were only to check that I could do so given this thread

 

[FullonFlyon]

Our posts crossed. As I said above, I don’t use my Flyon that often and was told it is not good for the battery to leave it for long periods at 100%. If I don’t expect to use the bike for a while I leave it at 50% topping it up the night before use. If I don’t expect to need a full charge when I am going out I only charge to 85% ish. In fact, my last 2 charges to 100% were only to check that I could do so given this thread

Sure thanks i understand. I managed to see mine charge to 100% properly this morning then i went out on it ran it down today and let it charge back to 100% again. So it does charge properly. But now I’m also questioning if this is a battery firmware like on my drone if you leave the batteries after a charge they immediately start to reduce rather than hold the charge at 100%. So if i come back to my bike after 24 hours then i may see 97% anyway its just a thought. We’ll see.

 

[Sidepod]

Sure thanks i understand. I managed to see mine charge to 100% properly this morning then i went out on it ran it down today and let it charge back to 100% again. So it does charge properly. But now I’m also questioning if this is a battery firmware like on my drone if you leave the batteries after a charge they immediately start to reduce rather than hold the charge at 100%. So if i come back to my bike after 24 hours then i may see 97% anyway its just a thought. We’ll see.

But do you see the third LED on the charger lit? Mine will only go to the second LEDno matter how long I leave it connected.

 

[FullonFlyon]

There are just 2 leds, the red one will show in error and the green one has 3 modes, it goes through all three modes fine but it is very slow to communicate with the bike to recognise the charge level.

 

[Sidepod]

Ah? I was under the impression the top one lit when it was ready to disconnect?

 

[FullonFlyon]

Ah? I was under the impression the top one lit when it was ready to disconnect?

i saw the red one come on when i pulled the psu from the bike or turned it on. does your green LED show solid green. , short flash , long flash, solid is completed charge

 

[FullonFlyon]

I was reading tonight that the German market supports the openCan standard for LEV so the charger is already able to plug straight into a station in certain German cities and looks like the European standard so as with the scooters we may see many stations in our UK towns too. I’m not certain that Haibike haven’t implemented their own messages but i doubt it as it would defy the point and as they would wish to align with all the other German manufacturers, anyway this means that providing we get a CiA 454 compliant charger any will do. Should be easy enough to decode the Can and see what the battery and PSU are saying too.

 

[Sidepod]

So does the 10A charger have a CAN port or OBD type output for diagnostics?

 

[FullonFlyon]

So does the 10A charger have a CAN port or OBD type output for diagnostics?

Its a rosenberger connector with the LEV CANBus connection the 4A. And battery and everything else use it in the bike to communicate

 

[FullonFlyon]

I should have said EnergyBus its the standard adopted in Germany for LEV devices - CanBus CiA 454 compliant charging there are some sites with the info on the chargers for the cities etc, which i thought was useful to know , not sure if now we have adopted it in the UK but with more and more scooters in cities they will have to provide some charging stations.

 

[Sidepod]

Are you saying the RoPD connector is the standard adopted across Germany for LEV charging?

 

[FullonFlyon]

Yes Bosch shared it with many manufacturers, don’t trust the USA to adopt the standard but in the EU we are pretty good at combining on a standard , all of Germany was made to adopt it apparently and there are already compliant charging stations in Germany. Its the standard for LEV.