Experiment 2: 4x chain rotation longevity

[Emteebee]

I've started a small experiment on my Cube Stereo Hybrid, Bosch CX Performance gen4.
Wanna find out how many kms to get from a chainring/cassette and 4 chains on rotation.
Silca hot wax after every ride of 40-100kms
I started with a new set of:

• SLX cassette with XT cogs on 5 highest gears.
• RaceFace chainring 34t.

4 chains:

• 1x Shimano XT M8100
• 1x Shimano Deore M6100 (OEM standard for this bike)
• 2x SRAM XX1

Initially started with 1x XT and an XX1 but I noticed a fast wear of the XT. I deliberately let it wear for a couple of rides to confirm it really was wearing more and more. I measured after every ride. The XX1 isn't giving an inch, it remains dead on at 0% wear.
That triggered me to compare with a Deore, just for the fun of it (and on sale for just €10). But also looking to get the most out of cassette/chainring so bought an additional XX1. So this is where I'm at now regarding kms:

• XT: 400km = 0.10% wear
• XX1: 500km = 0.00% wear
• Deore: 0km
• XX1: 0km

Motor use is by average 75% eMTB, 15% Turbo, and pretty wet and dirty mud conditions in the last months.
Will keep posted how things progress. Some things I want to learn from this:

• Chain longevity per type?
• Will cassette/chainring last the 4 chains?
• Total set milage?

Chain wear data, 900km total:

Motor driving mode usage data:

(* data shown at 24-11-24 are averages as from start of measurement at 1 nov 24)

What I'm hoping to confirm is cassette/chainring can last pretty long, given I swap chains based on equal wear% so the whole set wears out evenly. I've put the XT chain on ice for now to let the others catch up on it.
I am just very curious what the optimal amount of chains per cassette/chainring is for myself for my specific conditions.
I'm well aware that I could run 10x Deore chains for the same price as 2x XX1. But that might be another experiment. Which I will not attempt btw.

 

[Stihldog]

I've started a small experiment on my Cube Stereo Hybrid, Bosch CX Performance gen4.
Wanna find out how many kms to get from a chainring/cassette and 4 chains on rotation (swap based on wear). Silca hot wax after every ride of 40-100kms
I started with a new set of:

• SLX cassette with XT cogs on 5 highest gears.
• RaceFace chainring 34t.

4 chains:

• 1x Shimano XT M8100
• 1x Shimano Deore M6100 (OEM standard for this bike)
• 2x SRAM XX1

Initially started with 1x XT and an XX1 but I noticed a fast wear of the XT. I deliberately let it wear for a couple of rides to confirm it really was wearing more and more. I measured after every ride. The XX1 isn't giving an inch, it remains dead on at 0% wear.
That triggered me to compare with a Deore, just for the fun of it (and on sale for just €10). But also looking to get the most out of cassette/chainring so bought an additional XX1. So that's where I'm at now regarding kms:

• XT: 400km = 0.10% wear
• XX1: 500km = 0.00% wear
• Deore: 0km
• XX1: 0km

View attachment 152439
Motor use is by average 75% eMTB, 15% Turbo, and pretty wet and dirty mud conditions in the last months.
Will keep posted

Interesting experiment. The results could be helpful.

I use 3 types of chain lube. One of them is probably just olive oil …I wouldn’t know. XT cassette and 8100 Shimano chain.

But the most important thing I found was proper cadence. I’m mostly in eMTB mode and climb almost any trail. These motors can add a lot of stress to our transmission and motor components. I believe that I have extended the life of these components by using the correct cadence.

I haven’t tried the hot wax or chain-alternating method.

 

[irie]

But the most important thing I found was proper cadence. I’m mostly in eMTB mode and climb almost any trail. These motors can add a lot of stress to our transmission and motor components. I believe that I have extended the life of these components by using the correct cadence.

Agree with you. Mrs irie often uses very low cadence (<60) and I have to change her chain after about 600 miles. I try to keep my cadence 70+ and have to change my chain at over 1,000 miles. Both alloy Trek Rails. Also hear her crunching through the gears while I always back off a little before changing.

Edit: both Shimano XTR chains (buy them when they're on overstock discount)

 

[Stihldog]

Agree with you. Mrs irie often uses very low cadence (<60) and I have to change her chain after about 600 miles. I try to keep my cadence 70+ and have to change my chain at over 1,000 miles. Both alloy Trek Rails. Also hear her crunching through the gears while I always back off a little before changing.

It took us few rides but eventually she reached 70-80 cadence. That’s a huge improvement over 40. I just need to work on the crunching noise …but that’s getting better also.

 

[RoJo]

I've started a small experiment on my Cube Stereo Hybrid, Bosch CX Performance gen4.
Wanna find out how many kms to get from a chainring/cassette and 4 chains on rotation.
Silca hot wax after every ride of 40-100kms
I started with a new set of:

• SLX cassette with XT cogs on 5 highest gears.
• RaceFace chainring 34t.

4 chains:

• 1x Shimano XT M8100
• 1x Shimano Deore M6100 (OEM standard for this bike)
• 2x SRAM XX1

Initially started with 1x XT and an XX1 but I noticed a fast wear of the XT. I deliberately let it wear for a couple of rides to confirm it really was wearing more and more. I measured after every ride. The XX1 isn't giving an inch, it remains dead on at 0% wear.
That triggered me to compare with a Deore, just for the fun of it (and on sale for just €10). But also looking to get the most out of cassette/chainring so bought an additional XX1. So this is where I'm at now regarding kms:

• XT: 400km = 0.10% wear
• XX1: 500km = 0.00% wear
• Deore: 0km
• XX1: 0km

Motor use is by average 75% eMTB, 15% Turbo, and pretty wet and dirty mud conditions in the last months.
Will keep posted how things progress. Some things I want to learn from this:

• Chain longevity per type?
• Will cassette/chainring last the 4 chains?
• Total set milage?

Chain wear data, 900km total:

View attachment 152448
Motor driving mode usage data:
View attachment 152454
(* data shown at 24-11-24 are averages as from start of measurement at 1 nov 24)

What I'm hoping to confirm is cassette/chainring can last pretty long, given I swap chains based on equal wear% so the whole set wears out evenly. I've put the XT chain on ice for now to let the others catch up on it.
I am just very curious what the optimal amount of chains per cassette/chainring is for myself for my specific conditions.
I'm well aware that I could run 10x Deore chains for the same price as 2x XX1. But that might be another experiment. Which I will not attempt btw.

Fantastic experiment. Keep us all posted.
There are other results for XX1 performing well for longevity, unfortunately the original cycling tips article was taken down but here are the graphs:

Levo Gen 3 - SRAM XX1 or XO1 Chain?

Upgrading my stock chain at 500 miles on my Levo Expert. Would you run the XX1 or XO1?

www.emtbforums.com

Also:

Latest Zero Friction Cycling News - Chain efficiency vs Longevity - Zero Friction Cycling

Latest News 56 – Chain efficiency vs Longevity Alrighty here we go, something I have wanted to be able to publish for a long time – I finally have clearance! Some chains have outstanding wear longevity, but are not very fast. Some chains are very fast, but have very poor wear life. Some chains do...

zerofrictioncycling.com.au

 

[steve_sordy]

@Emteebee I have long believed that the whole transmission wears at the rate of the worst component. Have an all top-end transmission and it will last absolutely ages. But put a cheap chain on it and the whole lot will wear rapidly.

Therefore, I have concerns that leaving the XT chain in there, that is already suspect will contaminate your experiment. When the XT chain is running, being worn more than the rest of the transmission, it will wear them at a faster rate.

I have already discovered for myself that high end transmission delivers longer life and posted on here to that effect.

 

[Mikerb]

the main differences between the cheaper/lower in the range chains and those higher up the range is the coating material used. Very often you only need move 1 step up the range ladder to get that (e.g SRAM gx toX01) whilst the actual top of the range chains often just prioritise low weight......often with hollow pins.
All steel casettes ( maybe with an alloy 12th gear) are obviously more robust than ally versions and assuming a variety of gears are used on most rides wear is distributed across up to 11 cogs......therefore casettes tend to last longer than chains.
What wears on a chain is the inner diameter of the rollers ( and possibly the pins). I reckon the chief contributer to that wear is dirt which means chain cleaning is important. I agree with the a bove that cadence is probably second on the list of contributors to wear. Given the chain is not subject to heat or rapid speeds I really do not think what lube is used makes much difference provided it is replenished regularly. (except of course to the various lube brands ££££)

 

[irie]

I really do not think what lube is used makes much difference provided it is replenished regularly.

Agree.

 

[Mr President]

Thanks to the OP for posting his experiment

I’ve done almost 10,000 Kim’s now. All on GX chains, which know understand is not the way to go, it am currently locked into my own hot wax experiment with the GX so stuck there for a while. Typically only getting 700kms from a chain, but again that’s not a surprise given all the above information.

I’m still on third cassette.

here’s my question: I’m still on the original SRAM X Sync2 chainring 34T on Bosch Gen 4, which just seems to keep working, even though it is a bit shark toothed. I asked the mechanic at the LBS whether i should change it and he said no keep going with it until it starts to feel rough. What do you think?

 

[Emteebee]

here’s my question: I’m still on the original SRAM X Sync2 chainring 34T on Bosch Gen 4, which just seems to keep working, even though it is a bit shark toothed. I asked the mechanic at the LBS whether i should change it and he said no keep going with it until it starts to feel rough. What do you think?

I think as long as you ride current chain, keep the chainring, since they match and ride everything until worn. When you install new chain, replace chainring (and cassette) to prevent chainsuck considering you’re noticing a bit shark toothed. 10.000 it had a nice lifetime.
Chain advice: take the X01 or XX1, wil last so much longer and give you more out of cassette and chainring. My XX1 is currently at 650km and still a measured 0.00mm of wear.

 

[Emteebee]

Today prepping participants K3 and K4 of my experiment. A 2nd XX1 and a Deore M6100. From the last one my hopes aren’t really high, especially considering the looks of it after 10 mins of UFO drivetrain cleaner and 5 flushes with hot water. This came new out of package, bright and shiny. The XX1 which had the same treatment and still looking as new.
I’ve hot waxed it anyways and will give it the first kms soon.
Any similar experiences on corrosion during initial degrease and prep? Guess we witness the difference between the high-end chains and the cheap entry-level chains, where the surface treatments show their benefits.:

Though I must say the XT M8100 also showed slight similar surface corrosion after last boiling water reset at 400km (the K1 on the picture below). I don't remember this from my previous MTB with 2x X01 chains (metal color), they didn't show any corrosion at 1500km each. This makes me curious how an XTR M9100 would do. Will take one in next round of experiment.

K1=XT 8100, K2&K3=XX1, K4=Deore M6100

This picture from 1500km X01, no surface corrosion:

 

[irie]

Today prepping participants K3 and K4 of my experiment. A 2nd XX1 and a Deore M6100. From the last one my hopes aren’t really high, especially considering the looks of it after 10 mins of UFO drivetrain cleaner and 5 flushes with hot water. This came new out of package, bright and shiny. The XX1 which had the same treatment and still looking as new.
I’ve hot waxed it anyways and will give it the first kms soon.
Any similar experiences on corrosion during initial degrease and prep? Guess we witness the difference between the high-end chains and the cheap entry-level chains, where the surface treatments show their benefits.:

View attachment 152730

Though I must say the XT M8100 also showed slight similar surface corrosion after last boiling water reset at 400km (the K1 on the picture below). I don't remember this from my previous MTB with 2x X01 chains (metal color), they didn't show any corrosion at 1500km each. This makes me curious how an XTR M9100 would do. Will take one in next round of experiment.

K1=XT 8100, K2&K3=XX1, K4=Deore M6100
View attachment 152731

This picture from 1500km X01, no surface corrosion:

View attachment 152732

And the conclusion is?

 

[steve_sordy]

.................

here’s my question: I’m still on the original SRAM X Sync2 chainring 34T on Bosch Gen 4, which just seems to keep working, even though it is a bit shark toothed. I asked the mechanic at the LBS whether i should change it and he said no keep going with it until it starts to feel rough. What do you think?

I'm sure that I remember correctly, but not when I read it, but....
Sram designed the 12-speed ring to be a bit shark-toothed from new. They were chasing chain retention (and maybe also longevity), and they took a new approach to tooth profile. After all, initially it was a 1x system (is there even a 2x 12-speed set up?)

 

[Mr President]

I’ll see if i can find any old pics of e bike, but it’s true that it’s been shark toothed for a looong time

 

[steve_sordy]

I’ll see if i can find any old pics of e bike, but it’s true that it’s been shark toothed for a looong time

I have just been looking at pictures of my 12-speed chain rings and I can't find any shark toothed ones at all. Maybe I was remembering incorrectly and it was 11-tooth that Sram were on about. It could be that it was a development that didn't stand the test of time? Or my memory is making stuff up!

 

[Mr President]

You were right. Not only was it designed with shark toothed profile, the cheap ones are steel.
bring on 20k

 

[Mr President]

You even see it in the OPs picture of the chainring

 

[steve_sordy]

This is shark toothing!
New one at the back.
You can also see the burring of the teeth casued by pressure from the chain deforming the teeth.

The 11 and 12-speed rings I have pics of look nothing like either of those!

 

[Mr President]

This is shark toothing!
New one at the back.
You can also see the burring of the teeth casued by pressure from the chain deforming the teeth.
View attachment 152824

The 11 and 12-speed rings I have pics of look nothing like either of those!

SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring

Buy SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring at Tweeks Cycles. Shop the biggest brands with confidence and enjoy rapid worldwide delivery & 365 day returns.

www.tweekscycles.com

 

[Mr President]

SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring

Buy SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring at Tweeks Cycles. Shop the biggest brands with confidence and enjoy rapid worldwide delivery & 365 day returns.

www.tweekscycles.com

Have a look at the blurb on this. They describe as hooked teeth. That's what nine look like

 

[steve_sordy]

SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring

Buy SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Chainring at Tweeks Cycles. Shop the biggest brands with confidence and enjoy rapid worldwide delivery & 365 day returns.

www.tweekscycles.com

Now those look exactly like the ones I was describing when I said "Sram designed the 12-speed ring to be a bit shark-toothed from new".
I have just checked on both my last two 12-speed bikes and they were both Shimano! That would explain the difference! Doh!

 

[Arminius]

Do you mean like this?

 

[Arminius]

Today prepping participants K3 and K4 of my experiment. A 2nd XX1 and a Deore M6100. From the last one my hopes aren’t really high, especially considering the looks of it after 10 mins of UFO drivetrain cleaner and 5 flushes with hot water. This came new out of package, bright and shiny. The XX1 which had the same treatment and still looking as new.
I’ve hot waxed it anyways and will give it the first kms soon.
Any similar experiences on corrosion during initial degrease and prep? Guess we witness the difference between the high-end chains and the cheap entry-level chains, where the surface treatments show their benefits.:

View attachment 152730

Though I must say the XT M8100 also showed slight similar surface corrosion after last boiling water reset at 400km (the K1 on the picture below). I don't remember this from my previous MTB with 2x X01 chains (metal color), they didn't show any corrosion at 1500km each. This makes me curious how an XTR M9100 would do. Will take one in next round of experiment.

K1=XT 8100, K2&K3=XX1, K4=Deore M6100
View attachment 152731

I replaced the quickly wearing NX chain by a XO1 and find this tooic interesting. Being curious I found on SRAM website details for the link surface treatment.
Is it known if the base material of the links is the same steel or if there are different grades with different elongation properties used?

Shimano uses for inner / outer link besides chrome plated descriptions like brown and grey, what does not mean anything to me with regard to steel or steel surface.

This is what SRAM indicates:

X01 Eagle Chain - CN-EAGL-X01-A1 - SRAM

X01 Eagle Chain, CN-EAGL-X01-A1, SRAM. It might look normal from the outside, but the engineering inside this incredible chain design makes possible a gear range previously found only in 2-...

www.sram.com

NX

INNER LINK FINISH	Polished
OUTER LINK FINISH	Polished

WEIGHT (G)	252
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

GX chain

INNER LINK FINISH	Black Oxide
OUTER LINK FINISH	Nickel

WEIGHT (G)	244
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

XO1

INNER LINK FINISH	Chrome Plated
OUTER LINK FINISH	Nickel

WEIGHT (G)	239 (Hollow Pins)
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

XX1

INNER LINK FINISH	Chrome plated +PVD
OUTER LINK FINISH	Chrome plated + PVD

WEIGHT (G)	239 (Hollow Pins)
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

 

[steve_sordy]

Do you mean like this?

View attachment 152840

That looks like a SRAM ring. The sort of thing I had in mind.

 

[Arminius]

Yepp, it is the SRAM X-Sync 2 Eagle 34T for Bosch Gen 4 of my bike, engine side up.

During service and taking chainring off the centering ring (small silver conus) got loose (there is some soft adhesive only) from the chainring and I had checked with SRAM if this is a problem. It is not as the ring is just for leveling out chainring on motor axle and to make sure the conic side goes towards engine side.

 

[steve_sordy]

I replaced the quickly wearing NX chain by a XO1 and find this tooic interesting. Being curious I found on SRAM website details for the link surface treatment.
Is it known if the base material of the links is the same steel or if there are different grades with different elongation properties used?

Shimano uses for inner / outer link besides chrome plated descriptions like brown and grey, what does not mean anything to me with regard to steel or steel surface.

This is what SRAM indicates:

X01 Eagle Chain - CN-EAGL-X01-A1 - SRAM

X01 Eagle Chain, CN-EAGL-X01-A1, SRAM. It might look normal from the outside, but the engineering inside this incredible chain design makes possible a gear range previously found only in 2-...

www.sram.com

NX

INNER LINK FINISH	Polished
OUTER LINK FINISH	Polished

WEIGHT (G)	252
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

GX chain

INNER LINK FINISH	Black Oxide
OUTER LINK FINISH	Nickel

WEIGHT (G)	244
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

XO1

INNER LINK FINISH	Chrome Plated
OUTER LINK FINISH	Nickel

WEIGHT (G)	239 (Hollow Pins)
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

XX1

INNER LINK FINISH	Chrome plated +PVD
OUTER LINK FINISH	Chrome plated + PVD

WEIGHT (G)	239 (Hollow Pins)
WEIGHT BASED ON	114 links

 

[steve_sordy]

..................

Shimano uses for inner / outer link besides chrome plated descriptions like brown and grey, what does not mean anything to me with regard to steel or steel surface.

...................

I have no idea, I stopped looking at the detail years ago, I just buy XT chains if it's Shimano (or X01 if it's Sram, but not since 2018). They last well and I can leave washing and lubing until a couple of days afterwards without any rust forming.

 

[irie]

I have no idea, I stopped looking at the detail years ago, I just buy XT chains if it's Shimano (or X01 if it's Sram, but not since 2018). They last well and I can leave washing and lubing until a couple of days afterwards without any rust forming.

I believe that's because they have SIL-TEC coating (we use XTR chains, buy them when they're on offer.) [/B]

 

[Arminius]

Here is a 2020 Shimano 12-speed Mountain Bike Groups Tech Comparison and descriptions of chain techs:

Shimano 12-speed Mountain Bike Groups - Complete Tech Comparison!

Shimano’s 12-speed mountain bike group lineup is finally complete, so how do they all compare? What’s the real differences between Deore, SLX, XT and XTR?…

bikerumor.com

 

[irie]

Here is a 2020 Shimano 12-speed Mountain Bike Groups Tech Comparison and descriptions of chain techs:

Shimano 12-speed Mountain Bike Groups - Complete Tech Comparison!

Shimano’s 12-speed mountain bike group lineup is finally complete, so how do they all compare? What’s the real differences between Deore, SLX, XT and XTR?…

bikerumor.com

What conclusions are drawn for different chains other than what coatings are used?