EP8 range

[torabora851]

There are complaints about the range of the new EP8 motor. People say that there is degradation compared with the older motor. This video compares EP8 range with other motors, and the results are very-very bad compared to the competitions.

Here: link a rider compares EP8 with E8000 and it shows that "The Shimano EP8 battery is 26% more capacity but the range is only 16% more"

From my experience, I have Merida eone-sixty with E8000 and 504 battery, and when I ride with a mate on new Merida eone-sixty with EP8 and 630 battery, the range is roughly the same which is very disappointed.

The reviewers politely describe the motor as a "natural feeling" compared with competitors, which seems mean underpowered. In addition to the ineffective range makes the bikes with shimano motor not attractive.

I'm looking for an upgrade but after reading all these complaints probably will look at other motors.

What EP8 users think? Do you have experience when riding with a group of riders with different motors you run out of battery before others?

 

[eMullet]

Comparing different bikes with different tires, suspension and riders is just pointless.

 

[jimbob]

It doesn't surprise me - the EP8 is meant to have more power than the E8000 (yes, i know officially they're both 250w, but...) and that takes extra energy.

 

[wildsau2]

if you want to compare different systems you have to measure leg power and set it to a relation with the results.

 

[torabora851]

It doesn't surprise me - the EP8 is meant to have more power than the E8000 (yes, I know officially they're both 250w, but...) and that takes extra energy.

That's the thing, all reviews agree that it has more power only on paper, in reality, is weaker than its competitors. It would be nice if it will be more powerful and drain the battery faster or was weaker and save the battery, but seems we have a weak motor that drains a lot of power

Again, I don't state that, I've just read this and seen complaints and want to check with real owners who are able to compare it with other motors.

 

[eMullet]

We just don't have 2 identical bikes with different motors and identical laps...

 

[electricbogaloo]

I really hate that not one news outlet bothers to do comparable tests on a stand. Only in this case we could really find out how the motors compare.

But in general the shimano is one of the lightest and smallest 'power' motors while bosch seems to set its focus on power and range. This also influences the frame design. If you want to ride a motorcycle then do it but don't compare it to pedal assist bikes.

 

[Gary]

The reviewers politely describe the motor as a "natural feeling" compared with competitors, which seems mean underpowered.

No.
That's not what more natural feeling means.
Natural feeling refers to power delivery feeling closer to how natural power delivery on a normal bike feels. Not how much power the motor can deliver.
IME Shimano EMTB motors in Eco or trail deliver a more natural feeling assistance than any other motor I've ridden.

I still prefer riding normal bikes to E bikes and don't actually like the feel of Bosch motors power delivery at all.
Ebikes with too much power don't feel like riding a proper bicycle at all

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Bosch 500 gen 2 HT to 900 EP8 FS.
More bicycle like, less perception of assistance. Range maybe 30% more, not as much as expected. Smoother and quieter. Sometimes 25kph cutoff on Trail and Turbo a bit on/off on fast surfaces but can be tuned. Or use Eco.
Actually to be fair, the less range increase is probably largely due to riding rougher terrain on the FS during the honeymoon period. I've yet to do my 50 km mostly flat path run that the HT was so good for.

 

[urastus]

There are complaints about the range of the new EP8 motor. People say that there is degradation compared with the older motor. This video compares EP8 range with other motors, and the results are very-very bad compared to the competitions.

Here: link a rider compares EP8 with E8000 and it shows that "The Shimano EP8 battery is 26% more capacity but the range is only 16% more"

From my experience, I have Merida eone-sixty with E8000 and 504 battery, and when I ride with a mate on new Merida eone-sixty with EP8 and 630 battery, the range is roughly the same which is very disappointed.

The reviewers politely describe the motor as a "natural feeling" compared with competitors, which seems mean underpowered. In addition to the ineffective range makes the bikes with shimano motor not attractive.

I'm looking for an upgrade but after reading all these complaints probably will look at other motors.

What EP8 users think? Do you have experience when riding with a group of riders with different motors you run out of battery before others?

I'm subscribed to this dude's channel. Like Steve on embn - it's just hard to tell when he's being straight. Lots of pseudo reviews, like Steve on embn. Remember when they did those little competitions between other brands and specialized? Specialized were their major sponsor at the time. I, like many others predicted that specialized were going to come out top, regardless of anything. It was pretty clear back then, now they're getting more sneaky - you have to look hard to see whether it is sponsored or not. Embn might flash "ad" for a nano second in their sales spiel. Treat these guys like sky news - entertainment with some truths and some dressing up of down sides to put a positive spin on it - now, just to sort out which is which

Oh, re ep8 vs e8000 - my big question would be "what is the firmware between these two?". I imagine ep8 would have to have a different firmware period. This means Ep8 with different power and torque settings?

There are many real reasons to not like shimano, or bosch, or yamaha, or brose or whatever e system. I think it's the industry as a whole at this point. Brose was looking like a clear loser pre 2.2 - specialized somewhat made up for this with their warranties. I don't know now - I'd go with shimano or bosch simply because they're the biggest boys out there right now. But if I had a great local dealer for giant or specialized and really wanted one of those bikes; although I'd never pay specialized prices . I wouldn't buy shimano with non shimano cranks (e13) - that's a current real issue where you may not get warranty support, or a bad injury. I wouldn't buy orbea rise - problems with their (non shimano) batteries and their frames. These are the sort of issues to dodge around; no doubt they'll change.

 

[urastus]

Doh!

 

[flash]

I have my 2021 E160 9000 and my 2019 e160 900. IMHO there is a small but noticable improvement in the EP8. I don't see any real world differences in range per kWH.

Bikes are a bit different. Mullet vs 27.5. 504 vs 630. Older bike is alloy but a kilo lighter due to smaller battery.

If you jump off the newer bike onto the old you feel a difference but you still have a good time.

Gordon

 

[Marky Mark]

Hi check on youtube the velomotion magazin .they have been testing at least 6 diiferent e bike motors.With the power consumption. Etc. it’s in German. But very interesting and in my opinion the most compleet one.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Good afternoon:
The best e-bike motor is the one that does the most kilometers without breaking down
The best mileages according to this link, (Auf jeden Fall bergauf) are:
the best kilometers of the list
Sanyo 30000
Bafang 8 fun 30000
Panasonic new gen 32000
Panasonic36v 40000
Go Swiss drive 42000
Panasonic 26v 53000
Bosch cx33000
I have an E8000 with 28 months and almost 14,000 kilometers and it gave me no problems, let's see how long it lasts.
With the 504 battery in trail mode 60 km of autonomy and in eco mode 90km
This article is also interesting:
Best eMTB Motor of 2021: Top 8 Motors in Test

The best eMTB motor of 2021 – The 8 hottest motors in test

Which ebike motor is best? We tested seven of the most important motors in our group test and tell you what it’s all about on the trail.

ebike-mtb.com

 

[Gavalar]

There are complaints about the range of the new EP8 motor. People say that there is degradation compared with the older motor. This video compares EP8 range with other motors, and the results are very-very bad compared to the competitions.

Here: link a rider compares EP8 with E8000 and it shows that "The Shimano EP8 battery is 26% more capacity but the range is only 16% more"

From my experience, I have Merida eone-sixty with E8000 and 504 battery, and when I ride with a mate on new Merida eone-sixty with EP8 and 630 battery, the range is roughly the same which is very disappointed.

The reviewers politely describe the motor as a "natural feeling" compared with competitors, which seems mean underpowered. In addition to the ineffective range makes the bikes with shimano motor not attractive.

I'm looking for an upgrade but after reading all these complaints probably will look at other motors.

What EP8 users think? Do you have experience when riding with a group of riders with different motors you run out of battery before others?

And yet Bikeradar got different results,.get-out and ride.

 

[Stormy 107]

I think I'm in a good position to give you an answer. I have a Commencall meta power²⁷ 2019. My E8000 died at the end of October and I have just managed to install an ep8. So everything is the same except for the motor, switch, computer and cadence sensor. And I definitely get more range from ep8. I can do my usual route in mostly trail and some boost and still have 2 bars left. The e800p I used mostly eco and boost and would be on the red at the end. I notice less drag on the ep8 and that natural thing everyone harps on about but the e8000 felt like it had more support at higher cadence. I've only been out once as I ride my acoustic as well, so I think I need to have a play with motor settings on the app. Hope this info helps answer your question.

 

[steve_sordy]

I thought the wiring and connections were all different?

 

[Stormy 107]

I thought the wiring and connections were all different?

everything is the same except for the motor, switch, computer and cadence sensor as all the connections are smaller but the battery connection is the same.

 

[steve_sordy]

everything is the same except for the motor, switch, computer and cadence sensor as all the connections are smaller but the battery connection is the same.

There was an article on this forum a year ago that made the operation a big job. I was thinking of that.

 

[1oldfart]

If people buy Shimano they might be in a rush.
Plenty was written in the last 3 years to stay away.
The battery is often degrading way to fast.
The error codes are plenty.
The need for a third motor is no surprise.
If you do not like riding . . . . . shimano is your top choice.

 

[urastus]

If people buy Shimano they might be in a rush.
Plenty was written in the last 3 years to stay away.
The battery is often degrading way to fast.
The error codes are plenty.
The need for a third motor is no surprise.
If you do not like riding . . . . . shimano is your top choice.

That's kind of like a political statement - not much value. Is there an e system that is a winner in the reliability department? I've been good with shimano so far, but I don't deny all the trouble that many others have had. The thing is, that seems pretty universal between brands - some people have no trouble, other's have trouble to varying degrees. Brose were looking like the definite worst for a while, but maybe that has changed with the newer version (2.2). Other than that, it seems that all the e systems have their issues. I read pretty widely here and don't have an impression of an obvious better system. Perhaps you do?

 

[Spiff]

That's kind of like a political statement - not much value. Is there an e system that is a winner in the reliability department? I've been good with shimano so far, but I don't deny all the trouble that many others have had. The thing is, that seems pretty universal between brands - some people have no trouble, other's have trouble to varying degrees. Brose were looking like the definite worst for a while, but maybe that has changed with the newer version (2.2). Other than that, it seems that all the e systems have their issues. I read pretty widely here and don't have an impression of an obvious better system. Perhaps you do?

It is not a political statement but a fact. And It is not only the low reliability of Shimano Steps Systems, but the way that Shimano handles the problems and their support to customers.
** Shimano motors are not repairable and Shimano does not provide spares nor instructions. Other brands had in the past severe problems with motor reliability and they increased the warranty period from 2 to 4 years (not sure of the numbers). But Shimano solution is to buy a new motor at a cost of 850€ - 1150€
** Batteries degrades quite fast and Shimano does not acknowledge it, but also makes all kind of tricks to deny the warranty claims. Because of this, for long routes (almost all) I have to carry a second battery in a backpack.

 

[urastus]

Other brands had in the past severe problems with motor reliability and they increased the warranty period from 2 to 4 years

yes, I think that was just specialized.

When you say "shimano motors are not repairable"; I believe you're talking about out of warranty? I don't know that any manufacturers repair their motors. I don't think they give instructions on how to do motor repairs either. There is a 3rd party dude here who does (it's his business), and even sells bearing kits etc for the other brands, but he isn't from bosch or yamaha or any of them. I think he even gives information on how to do those repairs - but this is information he has discovered himself. Someone here has also replaced bearings in a shimano motor and was good enough to show a video on how to do it.

Re the battery issues and warranty claims - yes, that would annoy and frustrate me. Many folk here have had batteries and motors replaced though; some have had several motors replaced. Is it shimano or the business? Either way, it's not right. The merida business near me is trustworthy - I don't know anyone who has had warranty hastles other than covid / delivery time related. Your frustrations are justified; what I'm saying is that there seems to be an equal number of frustrated folk with the other brands too. This seems to be the world of emtb right now.

 

[1oldfart]

That's kind of like a political statement - not much value. Is there an e system that is a winner in the reliability department? I've been good with shimano so far, but I don't deny all the trouble that many others have had. The thing is, that seems pretty universal between brands - some people have no trouble, other's have trouble to varying degrees. Brose were looking like the definite worst for a while, but maybe that has changed with the newer version (2.2). Other than that, it seems that all the e systems have their issues. I read pretty widely here and don't have an impression of an obvious better system. Perhaps you do?

I never had a problem with Yamaha. My first in 2019 was HT 27+ Haibike.
It was stolen so i bought a Yamaha/Giant 2020 Stance E+.
Still just fun, never a problem. I use it plain, no display.
Maybe i am lucky, maybe it is because i never wash a bike, i just wipe off the excess.
I read about for months before selecting Yamaha and i keep reading.
Many did over 20,000 miles trouble free since 2016.
Like you say maybe some have a software that **feels better to some riders**
maybe some prefer others for different reasons.
For reliability wich is at the top of my list i prefer Yamaha.
Here in Canada that pretty much limits me to Giant but i am lucky.
My LBS sells Giant and i found i love the Stance E+ and for the price
no Ebike beats it. I love the 5 levels of assistance i just choose more assist
or more range. It would be nice if they made an Efat. I demoed a Norco/Shimano 3 years ago.
I loved the handling, shorter chainstay but at that time the noise was unpleasant and from my
readings i decided to avoid Shimano even if the bike handling was to my liking.
I just find that crazy reading about some happy rider company x gave them a free third motor.
It is not a gift you paid for it.
I would charge them 300$ for towing their shit out of the wood.
I do not have a car, i do not want to be without my bike for a month, even a week.

 

[franciscoasismm]

I have been a cyclist for 50 years and every year I enjoy the Trail more.
Engineers design ever more compact, lightweight and powerful engines.
That's what they do.
But there are three limitations on these engines; Bosch, Shimano, Brose and Yamaha which are the best I tried:
1) The union of electronics and mechanics does not hold up well over time and mileage.
2) Bearings with limited life since lubrication is not constant.
3) The battery is a lottery (in my Audi one lasted 3 years and another 8 years).
If they separate electronics and mechanics, the motors could last 100,000 km, but they would weigh more and would last a long time.
Neither engine nor bicycle manufacturers are interested.
If you don't wash it, just wiping it with a rag can hopefully last between 10,000 and 25,000 km.
Good luck.

 

[flash]

I have 3 Shimano bikes and no failures. I have one Specialized bike on its third motor.

And it means nothing because 4 bikes isn’t a comprehensive data stream.

Gordon

 

[franciscoasismm]

Tengo 3 bicicletas Shimano y ninguna falla. Tengo una bicicleta Specialized en su tercer motor.

Y no significa nada porque 4 bicicletas no es un flujo de datos completo.

gordon
[/CITA]

Tengo 3 bicicletas Shimano y ninguna falla. Tengo una bicicleta Specialized en su tercer motor.

Y no significa nada porque 4 bicicletas no es un flujo de datos completo.

gordon
[/CITA]

 

[franciscoasismm]

With the Orbea Karakorum I did 100,000 km but the Canyon Neuron ON is more fun

 

[cappuccino34]

I chose to look beyond the 'big 4' brands and bought a bike with the Polini EP+ MX motor.

So far, it's been absolutely fantastic. If the day comes when it stops being fantastic and breaks down then every part is available from Polini, and they're pretty cheap too. None of the "your motor has a problem, a new one is £1000" nonsense.

My previous bike was (is, I still have it) a 2020 Giant Trance E+0. Whilst it was quite 'grunty', it's not as good as the Polini, and the Polini is considerably more economical.

Where the Polini is night and day better than the Giant is the configurability of the control, which has five setting groups, each with five levels. Two groups are fully customisable, both in terms of peak output level and the effort required to get the power. It's frankly brilliant because I can select a mode to best suit the ride I want to do.

I have two minor gripes with it:-
The speed sensor magnet was on a spoke as if it was a prototype bike or something, but I've retro-fitted a different sensor in the dropout and fitted a disc with an integral magnet.

My second gripe is really minor, and may yet be fixed with a firmware update, and that is that it doesn't transmit rider data such as pedal power and cadence to a peripheral device (specifically my OS maps Trail 2 nav) for recording along with the route etc. It does transmit the data to the app on my phone, so I'm sure that it's just the Bluetooth 'handshake' that needs to be sorted with an update.
That is one thing that the Giant did do better (though admittedly it was after countless failed attempts at upgrading the FW)

 

[steve_sordy]

@cappuccino34 What bike was it that you bought?