EMTB OUTLAWED?

[melmark]

I just bought a Commencal Meta 29 and on my FIRST ride on my usual trails in Orange County CA, a ranger informed me that e-bikes were not allowed in any park in our entire county. WTF? I've been riding these trails on my old Trek for 15 years.

After a long discussion with the ranger, the reasons for not allowing e-bikes of any type were:
1. this is a wilderness area, and we want a 'natural' experience (there are hundreds of MTB riders daily on these trails daily)
2. e-bikes allow you to ride further and longer ( duh! that's why I bought it!) which results in "more wear and tear on the trails"

I pointed out the fact that my bike has no throttle, its just pedal assist, and will not add to any more "wear and tear" than any other MTB already on the trails. Its not like I'm running a pikes peak 1000hp monster doing donuts.

F'ing madness

 

[Al Boneta]

I just bought a Commencal Meta 29 and on my FIRST ride on my usual trails in Orange County CA, a ranger informed me that e-bikes were not allowed in any park in our entire county. WTF? I've been riding these trails on my old Trek for 15 years.

After a long discussion with the ranger, the reasons for not allowing e-bikes of any type were:
1. this is a wilderness area, and we want a 'natural' experience (there are hundreds of MTB riders daily on these trails daily)
2. e-bikes allow you to ride further and longer ( duh! that's why I bought it!) which results in "more wear and tear on the trails"

I pointed out the fact that my bike has no throttle, its just pedal assist, and will not add to any more "wear and tear" than any other MTB already on the trails. Its not like I'm running a pikes peak 1000hp monster doing donuts.

F'ing madness

What OC park were you riding in?
Ebikes are not permitted on any unpaved surface in any OC park.
You’re also not allowed to ride any bike on any natural trails in any OC park within 48 hours of rainfall. So if you were riding today in the morning on an Emtb, you might as well worn a sign that said “I am riding an Ebike”
Also if you blow past regular mountain bikers on a climb, they will often report you to the rangers.
The best time to ride is a few days after it rains within the last three hours before sunset. The rangers are usually gone by then.
They were all set to open a few trails to Emtbs, but a couple of guys with derestricted bikes decided to be jackasses. If you derestrict be subtle about it and not go for Strava KOMs
Also just don’t post Strava times, it pisses off all of the fragile ego trail queens that don’t use motors. Also the rangers watch the top tens and pick off the guys setting new KOMs with Emtbs.
Welcome to the United Socialist Orange County Parks

 

[Mabman]

If you bought it locally it would seem odd that the shop didn't hip you to that fact.

As the old saying goes, if they outlaw eBikes only outlaws will ride eBikes.

 

[Al Boneta]

If you bought it locally it would seem odd that the shop didn't hip you to that fact.

As the old saying goes, if they outlaw eBikes only outlaws will ride eBikes.

Commencal is only sold direct

I make it very clear to my customers that riding Emtbs in our local parks is illegal.
It’s killed more than a few sales, but it my responsibility to inform them of the legal ramifications.

I also tell them how not to get caught and where the best places to avoid running into rump rangers

 

[melmark]

Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I had no idea EMTB's were "illegal" anywhere. I knew there were people "against" them because we were "cheating" (cheating who exactly?), but did not know they were actually outlawed. This is stupid.

 

[melmark]

And the local specialized dealer cannot keep Levo's in stock. The "most back ordered" one cost $12k. I did not hear a peep by Rock N Road (Specialized dealer) that they were illegal to ride in OC, even after renting one for a weekend. So where are all these criminals going to ride?

 

[melmark]

Perhaps its time to pass legislation in CA that class 1 EMTB's are bicycles. Who wants to help?

 

[Rorhound]

If you’re going to use Strava, there’s an eBike category you should use. You can also name segments on the trails you ride if there are none now. I do it on my computer, just remember to make them public.

 

[MattyB]

I just bought a Commencal Meta 29 and on my FIRST ride on my usual trails in Orange County CA, a ranger informed me that e-bikes were not allowed in any park in our entire county. WTF? I've been riding these trails on my old Trek for 15 years.

Can you update the title of the thread please to include “in OC” or something similar? Thanks

 

[Ocotillo Boy]

Wow! I also have never heard of such a thing!

 

[Mavik]

Oh wow, I am completely shocked by how things are going about in the US. I guess it makes me a lot more thankful where I am in Asia that emtb are not seen that way.

 

[dirt huffer]

Oh wow, I am completely shocked by how things are going about in the US. I guess it makes me a lot more thankful where I am in Asia that emtb are not seen that way.

California and the city of Boulder, Colorado are full of people who want to micro manage mountain bikers. Even in the "birthplace" of mountain biking, Marin County California, they routinely radar people to make sure they're not going over a certain speed limit on mountain bike trails... not just emtb's but regular mountain bikes. ???

Other parts of the US are pretty nice though, and as long as you avoid the areas with trail Nazi's you'd probably enjoy the riding here. It's a really big country with lots of different local laws and different land managers

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

The only people who can catch an emtb are other people on emtbs, so fuck the rules!


*joke.

 

[Al Boneta]

The only people who can catch an emtb are other people on emtbs, so fuck the rules!


*joke.

Must have been, because even my best times on an Emtb can’t touch my best times from 6 years ago on my regular bike.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Jesus, you guys must be so fucking fast uphill.

Today I did 3 loops while a group of fit looking, 20 something year olds managed one loop.

There is no way in hell you'd be quicker than me, not close by any stretch.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

I get that for some of you, you're super old and unfit and ride an emtb to make up for your fitness, but I use it to enhance mine.

 

[Al Boneta]

Perhaps its time to pass legislation in CA that class 1 EMTB's are bicycles. Who wants to help?

Yeah we’ve been working on that for the last 3 years. Came really close to passing a provisional Emtb study, but that was shot to hell when a couple of riders hit some hikers in Laguna Beach.
I just sold a pair of Levos to @levity ’s brother and wife. They drove 4 hours south to come get them. I can’t keep Levos in stock despite the ban. I ride all the time in OC parks without any trouble from rangers or other riders.
I think it just comes down to being as inconspicuous as possible.

I don’t pass unassisted riders on climbs, unless they wave me by. I don’t Blast past them in Turbo when I do.

I don’t derestrict my bike to go over 25mph. When a bike is traveling on the flat sections at 30mph, it attracts attention.

I don’t act like a cocky asshole. I am in no way putting the same effort the non assisted riders are putting, so I am not going to act like I am when I encounter them. Acting like I just beat them in a race when the bike did most of the work would make anyone want these bikes off the trails.

Teach other Emtb riders some basic trail etiquette. Most of the riders on Emtbs are mature experienced riders, but there are a bunch of noobs out there that never rode mountain bikes before. They seem more into making their bikes go faster so they can be KOM on Strava.

I keep my eyes open for rangers. Most of the time I have ample warning to wearthey are on the trails, because we don’t have any tree cover. You see them on other ridgelines, in the valleys and closer to the entrances to the parks. They are not hard to spot, because they have white pick up trucks or golf carts.
So turn around and take a different trail around them. Don’t make it obvious when they see you climbing on another ridgeline by climbing in Turbo.

If you do get stopped by a ranger, don’t act like you don’t know what the rules are. You’re only making yourself look stupid. If you’re straight with them 9 times out of 10, you won’t get a ticket. They will tell you to head for the nearest exit and let you go on your way. When you actually head for the nearest exit is usually pretty inconsequential to them.

Ride your non-assisted mountain bike in between Emtb rides. Especially if you ride the same trails over and over. The rangers will get used to seeing you on a regular bike and won’t care or make a point of noticing you on an Emtb.

Ride in Chino Hills. It’s right on the border of Orange and Riverside counties and one cares what you ride there.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Thank god I don't live in California anymore.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

And if you don't pass regular bikes on the uphill section, you are wasting your bike/motor/money/time.

Be polite, sure, but the amount of pandering is bloody nonsensical.

 

[Mabman]

"I keep my eyes open for rangers. Most of the time I have ample warning to wearthey are on the trails, because we don’t have any tree cover. You see them on other ridgelines, in the valleys and closer to the entrances to the parks. They are not hard to spot, because they have white pick up trucks or golf carts."

And hopefully they don't know how to use the internet......but if they are dogging Strava it might stand to reason they can figure out how to find their way to eBike forums.

The purpose of the manufacturer backed PFB Class laws is to make Class 1 bikes recognized as bicycles. However the law left open the option for local/state/federal entities to decide if they would recognize them as such. So at this time there is still the fear factor involved that is keeping them walled/fenced/peached out in some areas. Actively promoting poaching is probably not the best way to get them to come around. It is all pretty frustrating though I admit.

 

[Al Boneta]

Jesus, you guys must be so fucking fast uphill.

Today I did 3 loops while a group of fit looking, 20 something year olds managed one loop.

There is no way in hell you'd be quicker than me, not close by any stretch.

Thanks for proving my point. This attitude is not the voice we need speaking on our behalf with Orange County land managers. Being humble without an “Us vs Them” mentality has proven more effective.
All of the top KOMs in Strava for my local trails are held by non-assisted riders. A lot of them are pro racers. A lot of these are held by guys on gravel bikes. A gravel bike doesn’t hit a speed limiter on the flats.
I raced Ironmans in my mid thirties, but that was 60lbs ago.

I get that for some of you, you're super old and unfit and ride an emtb to make up for your fitness, but I use it to enhance mine.

Yeah with any luck you’ll be super old too, there are many much more effective ways to maintain fitness, like a treadmill or a Peloton or I don’t know... a regular non-assisted bike

And if you don't pass regular bikes on the uphill section, you are wasting your bike/motor/money/time.

Be polite, sure, but the amount of pandering is bloody nonsensical.

It’s my money and time to waste

Pandering? Yes it is, but it’s been effective and actually has changed some opinions on Emtbs. This is speaking directly to the OC park controller’s concerns about Emtbs. So the next time there is a meeting about Emtbs, not all of the non-assisted riders will speak out against Emtbs. You’d be surprised what where positivity can get you with people

Thank god I don't live in California anymore.

As a Californian speaking for other Californians on this forum, I would like to also thank God or any other deity you worship, that you don’t live in California as well.
Because your attitude offers no solutions or help in the land access battle we face.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I assume some people won’t like this comment, but as the comedian Jim Jeffrey’s says, it is ironic how limited freedom is in the “land of the free.”

I really hope this ridiculous idea that emtb are damaging to trails etc does not make it to Europe.

I should say that I love the states overall! I hope in time emtbs get accepted!

 

[nickB]

We don't have any problems in the Santa Barbara / central coast areas. That I have heard of. Best not to attract attention to yourself and we stay off rain soaked trails until they dry out a bit.
I know some of the parks closer to LA are more fussy - more traffic on the trails.

 

[Al Boneta]

I assume some people won’t like this comment, but as the comedian Jim Jeffrey’s says, it is ironic how limited freedom is in the “land of the free.”

I really hope this ridiculous idea that emtb are damaging to trails etc does not make it to Europe.

I should say that I love the states overall! I hope in time emtbs get accepted!

It’s funny how in the so-called land of the free, people are worried about their rights to have military grade firearms while their other rights are slowly being eroded away.
If the ruling class had their way here in California all of our wilderness areas would be developed into tracts of houses.

 

[Albez]

I suppose it's a bit like Nazi bailiffs in the UK who won't let you do a spot of peaceful fishing without pointing to a no fishing sign. But here they don't have guns so you can just tell them to fuck off and throw them in the lake.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Thanks for proving my point. This attitude is not the voice we need speaking on our behalf with Orange County land managers. Being humble without an “Us vs Them” mentality has proven more effective.
All of the top KOMs in Strava for my local trails are held by non-assisted riders. A lot of them are pro racers. A lot of these are held by guys on gravel bikes. A gravel bike doesn’t hit a speed limiter on the flats.
I raced Ironmans in my mid thirties, but that was 60lbs ago.

Yeah with any luck you’ll be super old too, there are many much more effective ways to maintain fitness, like a treadmill or a Peloton or I don’t know... a regular non-assisted bike

It’s my money and time to waste

Pandering? Yes it is, but it’s been effective and actually has changed some opinions on Emtbs. This is speaking directly to the OC park controller’s concerns about Emtbs. So the next time there is a meeting about Emtbs, not all of the non-assisted riders will speak out against Emtbs. You’d be surprised what where positivity can get you with people

As a Californian speaking for other Californians on this forum, I would like to also thank God or any other deity you worship, that you don’t live in California as well.
Because your attitude offers no solutions or help in the land access battle we face.

Haha, I'd ride past you on your emtb, lol.

As I said, you've completely wasted your money on an emtb.

And CalifornianS are lovely, CaliforniA is atrocious.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Why am I remembering the smug episode of south park whenever I read your posts Al?

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

On a side note, I think anyone who uses strava has gone wrong earlier in their lives.

 

[davez]

I love it. There seem to be more restrictions for EMTBs than for guns
Seriously, we have issues with regular MTBs as well in Europe. And what I don't understand are people riding through woods without a real trail for their "single trail experience". You can find their rides on youtube and Strava and it hurts all MTB riders, because a few idiots lead to stricter laws for all of us. My fear is, what you see in OC will soon also happen in Europe.

 

[khorn]

On a side note, I think anyone who uses strava has gone wrong earlier in their lives.

I do believe that it is a bit over your bed time........