EMTB OUTLAWED?

[Gofurtherfaster]

I do believe that it is a bit over your bed time........

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but do you perhaps use Strava?

 

[khorn]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but do you perhaps use Strava?

No.....

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Oh god, even worse, taking offence on behalf of other people.

Don't let that be your life. :-D

 

[khorn]

Oh god, even worse, taking offence on behalf of other people.

Don't let that be your life. :-D

Have you ever considered some lectures in basic communication skills, you sure need it.......

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Wonder if we'll see emtb only trails at some point.

Where if you aren't going over 15mph uphill you get yelled at by the rangers, one way trail only, 50% gradient.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Have you ever considered some lectures in basic communication skills, you sure need it.......

This is a forum about emtbs mate, I think people who record their times using strava are a bit lame, you don't have to agree, but you probably didnt need to go so deep into things.. you seem precious so I won't poke any more.

 

[R120]

On a side note, I think anyone who uses strava has gone wrong earlier in their lives.

Maybe tone it down a bit? You seem to be in the mood today to go OTT on a couple of threads with your responses.

Most of us on here ride bikes because we love riding bikes, and really dont care who's the fastest, can jump the furthest, or do the most loops.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Maybe tone it down a bit? You seem to be in the mood today to go OTT on a couple of threads with your responses.

Most of us on here ride bikes because we love riding bikes, and really dont care who's the fastest, can jump the furthest, or do the most loops.

Haha, it was a joke, I think people need to lighten up a tad.

And I don't care about any of that stuff either, hence why I made the joke.. I just have fun on my bike.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

I think the last time I was in a mood, F.R.I.E.N.D.S was airing season 2

 

[Doomanic]

Haha, it was a joke,

Jokes are supposed to be funny...

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

I like to mix it up, for contrast.

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

well we are talking about the " objects in the rear view mirror might be closer" law makers, so if the emtb does have a sticker saying you can't ride it on certain trails - that can be your defence

This is not legal advice, please take it light hearted.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

I might download strava on the back of this thread and start taking over my local leaderboards, I love the idea of really annoying people who put emphasis on these things. Thanks for the motivation everyone :-D

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

(cue me trying my hardest on a derestricted ebike and still not making it near the top 10 lol...)

 

[JimBo]

Here in MA, the regional MTB association has campaigned hard against eMTB access to natural surface trails on public land since 2013.

In 2015, on my first ebike ride in the state park I live next to, I asked a Ranger if they were allowed. "No motorized vehicles," he emphatically replied. I pointed at my bike and said, "This is a pedal assist bicycle!"

"No way! It looks just like a regular bicycle!" We laughed, but I told him my Lyme Disease sob story, and how pedelecs made riding possible again for me. He then cited some kind of assistive technology exception that allows folks with disabilities access to trails.

A few thousand trail miles later, I'm now known to many of the Rangers here, and have had zero issues with them, knock wood. I've signed up as a volunteer trail steward, taken officials and many friends on singletrack eMTB demo rides, and spoken to dozens of traditional MTBers.

Reactions I've experienced have been predominantly positive and/or indifferent to pedal assistance on trails, but the 3-Class ebike laws that have passed or are being proposed exclude ebikes from natural surfaces.

I think I'll need a doctor's note that my eMTB is a disability acommodation!

 

[R120]

So much misconception out there

 

[knut7]

So much misconception out there

Jeffco had an interesting approach when considering opening up for ebikes, they studied peoples conception of ebikes.

Bonnell said some hikers surveyed at parks said they had never seen an e-bike, just as a “ghost rider,” a park ranger on an e-bike, rode past them unnoticed. Others were against the idea of e-bikes until they tried one at one of the demos set up by local retailers at trail heads. Before-and-after surveys showed their opinion flipped, Bonnell said.

The e-bike debate hits Jeffco as Open Space studies use on trails – The Denver Post

65% of trail users uanble to identify an ebike (+9% unsure)
65% of trail users became more positive towards ebikes after an introduction
https://www.jeffco.us/DocumentCenter/View/9674/e-Bike-Survey-Results-?bidId=

 

[R120]

Seems to me that in the US, it would be a good thing if the bigger manufacturers such as Specilized and Trek got together and put together some sort of EMTB awareness programme. At the end of the day it would only benefit them as the potential sales market in the US must be enormous.

Reminds me a bit of the early days of snowboarding, when a couple of the then bigger companies go together to show resorts that snowboards could be ridden under control and safely in resorts.

 

[dirt huffer]

"No way! It looks just like a regular bicycle!" We laughed, but I told him my Lyme Disease sob story, and how pedelecs made riding possible again for me. He then cited some kind of assistive technology exception that allows folks with disabilities access to trails.

That's awesome.

I think it's going to continue to become harder for Rangers to enforce any restrictions on these bikes as they get quieter and the motor/battery technology becomes more compact and integrated... to the point where emtb's look just like non-emtb's. Also as people open up to realization that emtb's don't create anymore issues than non-emtb's

 

[HikerDave]

Here in MA, the regional MTB association has campaigned hard against eMTB access to natural surface trails on public land since 2013.

In 2015, on my first ebike ride in the state park I live next to, I asked a Ranger if they were allowed. "No motorized vehicles," he emphatically replied. I pointed at my bike and said, "This is a pedal assist bicycle!"

"No way! It looks just like a regular bicycle!" We laughed, but I told him my Lyme Disease sob story, and how pedelecs made riding possible again for me. He then cited some kind of assistive technology exception that allows folks with disabilities access to trails.

A few thousand trail miles later, I'm now known to many of the Rangers here, and have had zero issues with them, knock wood. I've signed up as a volunteer trail steward, taken officials and many friends on singletrack eMTB demo rides, and spoken to dozens of traditional MTBers.

Reactions I've experienced have been predominantly positive and/or indifferent to pedal assistance on trails, but the 3-Class ebike laws that have passed or are being proposed exclude ebikes from natural surfaces.

I think I'll need a doctor's note that my eMTB is a disability acommodation!

The

Here in MA, the regional MTB association has campaigned hard against eMTB access to natural surface trails on public land since 2013.

In 2015, on my first ebike ride in the state park I live next to, I asked a Ranger if they were allowed. "No motorized vehicles," he emphatically replied. I pointed at my bike and said, "This is a pedal assist bicycle!"

"No way! It looks just like a regular bicycle!" We laughed, but I told him my Lyme Disease sob story, and how pedelecs made riding possible again for me. He then cited some kind of assistive technology exception that allows folks with disabilities access to trails.

A few thousand trail miles later, I'm now known to many of the Rangers here, and have had zero issues with them, knock wood. I've signed up as a volunteer trail steward, taken officials and many friends on singletrack eMTB demo rides, and spoken to dozens of traditional MTBers.

Reactions I've experienced have been predominantly positive and/or indifferent to pedal assistance on trails, but the 3-Class ebike laws that have passed or are being proposed exclude ebikes from natural surfaces.

I think I'll need a doctor's note that my eMTB is a disability acommodation!

The weird thing about the New England Mountain Bike Association is that they support human powered bicycles in wilderness a thousand miles from where they live (listed as in support of the sustainable trails coalition) but oppose eBikes on public land as some kind of menace (high closing speed arguments like we’re all flying jet interceptors).

Fortunately for me, they don’t live here in Phoenix and several very good trail networks are open to me - an older rider with arthritis.

 

[JimBo]

The


The weird thing about the New England Mountain Bike Association is that they support human powered bicycles in wilderness a thousand miles from where they live (listed as in support of the sustainable trails coalition) but oppose eBikes on public land as some kind of menace (high closing speed arguments like we’re all flying jet interceptors).

Fortunately for me, they don’t live here in Phoenix and several very good trail networks are open to me - an older rider with arthritis.

I was refusing to refer the their "Not in MY Back Yard" (NIMBY) sounding acronym, but since you spelled it out...

I was a NEMBA member for a brief spell last decade, but went to a couple of their events and felt like I was "too recreational" a rider to relate to their ranks. When I got into eMTBs in 2015, I saw their posts/letters/"guidelines" railing against ebikes on natural surfaces. First one I found was dated 2013, and it's very brief, but ironically is the ONLY one of several that followed over the next 5 years to mention disability exceptions.

I truly appreciate their work on MTB trail development, maintenance and advocacy, but feel that their "proactive" endeavors to head eMTBs off at the trailhead are borderline ridiculous, if not outright paranoid. Last year they mailed extremely long-winded "dealer guidelines," which forewarned, "Class 1 e-bikes can go 20 MPH even up hills," among many other extreme examples. They admonished eMTB sellers "...to provide their customers with written material detailing where eMTBs can be ridden." Here in MA, there are only a few such places listed in their letter.

I think NEMBA is missing a golden opportunity to expand their membership, and I feel that they're going to find themselves on the wrong side of history in 5-10 years' time (a la MAGAheads & snowboard opponents). Hell, by then many of them will be old enough to actually need assistance in order to keep riding trails, too!

 

[HikerDave]

I was refusing to refer the their "Not in MY Back Yard" (NIMBY) sounding acronym, but since you spelled it out...

I was a NEMBA member for a brief spell last decade, but went to a couple of their events and felt like I was "too recreational" a rider to relate to their ranks. When I got into eMTBs in 2015, I saw their posts/letters/"guidelines" railing against ebikes on natural surfaces. First one I found was dated 2013, and it's very brief, but ironically is the ONLY one of several that followed over the next 5 years to mention disability exceptions.

I truly appreciate their work on MTB trail development, maintenance and advocacy, but feel that their "proactive" endeavors to head eMTBs off at the trailhead are borderline ridiculous, if not outright paranoid. Last year they mailed extremely long-winded "dealer guidelines," which forewarned, "Class 1 e-bikes can go 20 MPH even up hills," among many other extreme examples. They admonished eMTB sellers "...to provide their customers with written material detailing where eMTBs can be ridden." Here in MA, there are only a few such places listed in their letter.

I think NEMBA is missing a golden opportunity to expand their membership, and I feel that they're going to find themselves on the wrong side of history in 5-10 years' time (a la MAGA). Hell, by then many of them will be old enough to actually need assistance in order to keep riding trails, too!

I read their dealer guidelines; it’s quite a screed. Counterpoint; I bought my eBike for commuting; the long travel suspension reduces shock on my back / SI joint; riding my road bike or Honda scooter is too painful to do every day.

Being able to ride on the trail is just a big plus. Their attempt to dissuade / bully dealers is just crazy.

The racer attitude explains a lot; they may be projecting their boy-racer trail behavior onto others.

They have corrupted a simple outdoor activity into an elitist d*ck-measuring contest and wonder why the hikers (to them the variable part of the trail) get upset. God forbid that one of those hikers buys an eBike and starts using ‘their’ trails.

 

[HikerDave]

I read their dealer guidelines; it’s quite a screed. Counterpoint; I bought my eBike for commuting; the long travel suspension reduces shock on my back / SI joint; riding my road bike or Honda scooter is too painful to do every day.

Being able to ride on the trail is just a big plus. Their attempt to dissuade / bully dealers is just crazy.

The racer attitude explains a lot; they may be projecting their boy-racer trail behavior onto others.

They have corrupted a simple outdoor activity into an elitist d*ck-measuring contest and wonder why the hikers (to them the variable part of the trail) get upset. God forbid that one of those hikers buys an eBike and starts using ‘their’ trails.

About ten years ago I had a visitor in the Phoenix area; a business traveler from Garmisch-Partenkirchen, a resort town in the Bavarian alps. He stayed over a couple of days and we rode the National trail on South Mountain.

He was very interested in eBikes, as he had a friend with a large bike-rental business in the Alps; somehow he had the false impression that eBikes motors were more available here in the USA.

His interest makes a lot of sense to me now; mountain villages with steep interconnected roads and trails practically demand an eBike for a good experience. Now I read that around half of all bikes sold in the Alps are eBikes.

I live within 5 miles of three trailheads of South Mountain Preserve where eBikes are now legal; the flexibility of being able to ride to one trail, tour around for a while, and come out on another is quite nice.

Sedona on an eBike would be amazing. It’s a town where a National Park should be; the loops made and published by the fittest of the fit would be available to the rest of us if not for the Forest Service eBike ban. Instead, the tourists are bouncing around in Pink Jeeps and running amok on ATVs or fighting over limited parking spots at hiking trailheads.

 

[Kernow]

Sounds like you guys in the states could do with some kind of awareness campaign for ebikes and thier users .
Somehow the strava fools need to be educated into recording rides honestly .
General awareness as to why lots of people use ebikes and what they can realistically do . They generally do less miles because of poor battery life. Not more miles .
Mainly and a point I think would be used here in uk is the disability issue , there is a lot of older or disabled riders enjoying full mtb access who simply could not do so on a normal bike . Discrimination against disability is as bad as race discrimination in most cases ,surely especially in the states considering the past .

 

[melmark]

In hindsight, had I known about the emtb restrictions here, I would not have gone with the Comencal meta, or any bike without an integrated battery. In your face obvious its an ebike. Even a levo might keep some guessing...been thinking about switching to something more stealthy. And I have zero interest in Strava, so will be low profile there anyway.

 

[steve_sordy]

.....................
I think I'll need a doctor's note that my eMTB is a disability acommodation!

The first time I saw an emtb was at Llandegla (trail centre in Wales). My mates and I had just toiled up the long zig-zag hill on the black section and were having a breather at the top. This guy came hurtling up the hill and we all were amazed and envious at his fitness. (You probably know what's coming). My first question once I realised it was an emtb was "Do you need a doctor's note for that?" He thought I was serious and said "No mate, anyone can buy them!"

Turns out that he'd chipped it so that he could do 30mph!

 

[PyroGX]

Just to chime in here about riding in and around OC...

As Al mentioned, paved pathways allow class 1 & 2 eBikes. Here's a rough map of the paved paths from the OC parks website: http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher_Sam/Agenda07_17_2018_files/images/O00118-000454A.PDF

Fire roads are also allowed, and there happen to be some excellent ones close by: https://bicyclist.xyz/regulars/electric-age/maple-springs-truck-trail/

Al also mentioned Chino Hills, which is also close by. In fact, you can park at the Santa Ana River Trail Parking and either ride the SAR trail, or take the short route over to the Scully Ridge Trailhead which is honestly one of the most amazing rides I've had on two wheels. You'll be out of battery long before you can explore all of Chino Hills.

If you're willing to make short drive to SD you can ride ANYWHERE that's considered part of the city, including Mission Trails! I confirmed this with a ranger just a few days ago. Also, I say 'short' drive here because while it is about an hour or so from OC (depending on where you live obviously), we used to drive much further to get to legal areas to ride dirt bikes.

Keep in mind that the 'paved trail' exception was just enacted last summer. From everything I have read and people I've talked to, it is still very much a work in progress. It is unfortunate to hear some incidents that have raised 'public safety concerns' but I have to wonder if the incident involving the hikers would have happened regardless if the riders had been on eBikes or regular MTBs. Whenever I see hikers I always slow down to about their walking pace and thank them for giving me room to pass. Pandering? Maybe, but if it works...

On a side note, I've never once been harassed by other MTBers but been told to 'get over' and 'slow down' by equestrians when I was already at a complete stop and literally could not move off the trail any further without stepping into the weeds. But hey let's be real, horses don't raise any public safety concerns, leave waste behind, tear up the trails, or allow you to ride long distances...

 

[steve_sordy]

....................

On a side note, I've never once been harassed by other MTBers but been told to 'get over' and 'slow down' by equestrians when I was already at a complete stop and literally could not move off the trail any further without stepping into the weeds. But hey let's be real, horses don't raise any public safety concerns, leave waste behind, tear up the trails, or allow you to ride long distances...

I know horses won the west and all that, but if you think the horse community are up themselves in the USA, you should try coming to the UK! The horsey set have more than 1000 years of rights and privileges built up by custom and practice built into law and they are not going to let any of it be infringed in any way whatsoever.

 

[shklein]

It feels like flashback to the era when snowboards were not allowed to be used on designated ski slopes.
This too shall pass, and sooner the better.
I would like to remind to all of us emtb riders - riding upward on a downward riding trail section is considered a jackass act !!! I know its fun but don't do it - it will just make us look worse.

 

[Kernow]

It feels like flashback to the era when snowboards were not allowed to be used on designated ski slopes.
This too shall pass, and sooner the better.
I would like to remind to all of us emtb riders - riding upward on a downward riding trail section is considered a jackass act !!! I know its fun but don't do it - it will just make us look worse.

I think you are right , the ebike allows those with a jackass tendency to become annoying , these people were simply unable to do that on a pedal bike , just like motorcyclists ,there is always the few making too much noise spinning the wheel and being a hooligan etc . Power can corrupt