emtb longevity?

[jgf]

I am finally moving on from a 2004 specialized comp into the emtb world.

However I wonder if it is realistic to expect an emtb's longevity to last anywhere near as long as an analogue bike? I am fine with the reality of needing to replace an engine or battery, the real question is, how long can those replacement parts realistically be expected to be available?

If I buy a bike with a shimano 801 motor and a 630 watt battery, and in 10 years time that battery and/or motor needs to be replaced, what are the odds the replacement parts will be available? what about 15 years?

At the very least I would hope a decade is not too much to ask for parts availability, but even that seems to be... I dont know... a bit low when talking about a $5K to $10K investment.

Is it just a sad reality that these very expensive ebikes are going to have a radically shorter lifespan and whole bicycle replacement (on a shorter term) needs to be factored in as a reality?

 

[Bummers]

I am finally moving on from a 2004 specialized comp into the emtb world.

However I wonder if it is realistic to expect an emtb's longevity to last anywhere near as long as an analogue bike? I am fine with the reality of needing to replace an engine or battery, the real question is, how long can those replacement parts realistically be expected to be available?

If I buy a bike with a shimano 801 motor and a 630 watt battery, and in 10 years time that battery and/or motor needs to be replaced, what are the odds the replacement parts will be available? what about 15 years?

At the very least I would hope a decade is not too much to ask for parts availability, but even that seems to be... I dont know... a bit low when talking about a $5K to $10K investment.

Is it just a sad reality that these very expensive ebikes are going to have a radically shorter lifespan and whole bicycle replacement (on a shorter term) needs to be factored in as a reality?

That's exactly it, they're a depreciating asset. It's knowing when to sell on and buy new. The tech moves quickly.

 

[jgf]

frustrating that there is a certainty that the bike is literally going to be rendered inoperable at some point in its future. The question is what is the time scale of that inevitability? Very disappointing that hypothetically that bike be could be forced to the landfill in as potentially short as 10 years give or take...

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

 

[jezhumphrey75]

put a cyc or lift-mtb kit on your bike, sorted

 

[jgf]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

Absurd.

I would almost consider buying a backup engine and battery were it not that the backup battery would degrade over time just sitting in storage. Its almost like you have to figure out from the vendor when the given part is going to be marked for end of life and buy it then but how realistic is that?

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

Absurd.

I would almost consider buying a backup engine and battery were it not that the backup battery would degrade over time just sitting in storage. Its almost like you have to figure out from the vendor when the given part is going to be marked for end of life and buy it then but how realistic is that?

I'm getting really concerned and anxious about this now, as I've assembed and used it (37 dry tarmac miles along Blackpool prom) I may not be able to return it under my statutory rights? I'd be happy to upgrade to something that uses more widely available consumables, like the Strive:On which uses Bosch batteries...

 

[RustyIron]

I've never kept a bike more than five years. Even on Amish bikes, the technology advances so quickly that a four year old bike isn't all that good any more. So from my perspective, the only part that isn't obsolete on a 10 year old bike is the air in the tires.

 

[juggernaut]

If I buy a bike with a shimano 801 motor and a 630 watt battery, and in 10 years time that battery and/or motor needs to be replaced, what are the odds the replacement parts will be available? what about 15 years?

At the very least I would hope a decade is not too much to ask for parts availability, but even that seems to be... I dont know... a bit low when talking about a $5K to $10K investment.

No manufacturer makes anything that lasts 10 to 15 years any more. It’s just a bad business model to do so.

Figure on 5 years…..7 years tops.

 

[irie]

I figure on absolute max 5 years support for proprietary parts such as motors and batteries.

Apart from the frame everything else is multi-source replaceable components.

 

[Streddaz]

Yes, it does suck that we are not likely going to be able to source parts for our bikes in 10 or more years' time but even with a normal bike you are lucky to get say a rear triangle, or a replacement frame 10 years down the track.
The only thing we can hope for is that the aftermarket industry comes to the party with aftermarket batteries. If there is enough demand there someone will fill that gap, but it will be only for the more common brands.

 

[rod9301]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

This is why i bought an e bike with a Bosch motor

 

[Astro66]

Battery mounts can be changed. Motors just require the same bolt pattern. There are adapter kits for Bafang motors to fit both Shimano and Bosch motor mounts.

I went with all Shimano Electronics. I can get the Shimano batteries from so many suppliers in Australia. And the EP801 motor fits motor frames all the way back to the E6100 motor. So you can change your Shimano E6100 motor to a EP801, with little issues. You will need to upgrade all the electronics. But there is an upgrade path.

If you are concerned, make the investment in longevity now. Buy spare batteries and motor now. This should give you many years of service. An EP801 motor is AUD$1250, and the 630Wh Battery is AUD$860.

That said. If I get 10 years out of a bike. I'm ready to sell it off as spare parts. The bike I'm currently running has the the EP600 motor from the factory, which has the same bolt pattern as the EP801. I will definitely install the EP801 if it fails. And will buy an EP801, if Shimano announce they are going to phase the EP801 out. Same with the battery. I have the Shimano 630Wh. I can buy the Shimano 630Wh or 500Wh battery. Both fit with no issues.

So there are definite bikes and components you can buy, if concerned about longevity. You just need to do research before buying your ebike. Buying then discovering that what you have purchased has no upgrade path is something the buyer needs to avoid buy making informed choices. Harsh ..... But true.

 

[Astro66]

my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above

Once again, Harsh ..... But True. Buying a bike with such a specialised battery would have been a red flag to me, because long term serviceability was important to me. I specifically excluded bikes in my ebike search, that didn't have motor and standard battery from the same big company supplier.

And that was Bosch, Shimano and Bafang. In Australia, the original batteries for these Brands are available from so many suppliers. Not just from the original Branding Company or Bike Shop.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with other mismatched Motor and Battery. But if longevity is important to you. Then I would factor this into your purchase.

 

[cozzy]

Stick with a big brand with a fully serviceable motor and the minimum of proprietary parts.
My kenevo gen2 came out late 2019 so is coming upto 5 years old now. The motors and batteries are still fitted to the current bikes.
Its such a good bike, i see no reason it wont last me at least another 5 years. Well until a gen3 kenevo gets released anyway .
Of course bolts, linkages and frame parts could break down the line, but thats no different to trying to get parts for a motorless bike.

 

[Mart-e]

Battery mounts can be changed. Motors just require the same bolt pattern. There are adapter kits for Bafang motors to fit both Shimano and Bosch motor mounts.

I went with all Shimano Electronics. I can get the Shimano batteries from so many suppliers in Australia. And the EP801 motor fits motor frames all the way back to the E6100 motor. So you can change your Shimano E6100 motor to a EP801, with little issues. You will need to upgrade all the electronics. But there is an upgrade path.

If you are concerned, make the investment in longevity now. Buy spare batteries and motor now. This should give you many years of service. An EP801 motor is AUD$1250, and the 630Wh Battery is AUD$860.

That said. If I get 10 years out of a bike. I'm ready to sell it off as spare parts. The bike I'm currently running has the the EP600 motor from the factory, which has the same bolt pattern as the EP801. I will definitely install the EP801 if it fails. And will buy an EP801, if Shimano announce they are going to phase the EP801 out. Same with the battery. I have the Shimano 630Wh. I can buy the Shimano 630Wh or 500Wh battery. Both fit with no issues.

So there are definite bikes and components you can buy, if concerned about longevity. You just need to do research before buying your ebike. Buying then discovering that what you have purchased has no upgrade path is something the buyer needs to avoid buy making informed choices. Harsh ..... But true.

Thanks for sharing helpful info mate.... Owning two 2020 Norco's powered with the original shimano e8000.... a Sight and Range....
The e8000 is discontinued, it would make a boost in value upgrading with the EP801....

 

[Astro66]

Thanks for sharing helpful info mate.... Owning two 2020 Norco's powered with the original shimano e8000.... a Sight and Range....
The e8000 is discontinued, it would make a boost in value upgrading with the EP801....

Unfortunately you'd need to do the battery as well. E8000 battery is not compatible with the EP801, or EP600. But as I said. At least there is an upgrade path.

 

[steve_sordy]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

That must be illegal in so many consumer rights legislation, not just in the EU where Canyon are based (Germany I think), but also the UK. It sounds like you will have little difficulty getting what you want. Your complaint must be to the place you bought your bike, they are the ones with which you have a contract.

Or at least make a big publicity splash in the newspapers on the basis of don't buy from Canyon.

 

[irie]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

If it were me I'd take advice from a solicitor.

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

This is why i bought an e bike with a Bosch motor

It's irrelevant, Shimano motors generally have Shimano batteries, both of which are widely available.

In my case, Canyon decided to make their own battery packs with a Shimano compatible BMS. These battery packs can no longer be purchased even though the Spectral:ON is still a current model. They have stock for warranty replacements but that's it.
When I get a refund, the next bike will have a Shimano motor (the EP801 with the 4.3.0 firmware is easily a match for the Bosch CX race motor), they're excellent.

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

Battery mounts can be changed. Motors just require the same bolt pattern. There are adapter kits for Bafang motors to fit both Shimano and Bosch motor mounts.

I went with all Shimano Electronics. I can get the Shimano batteries from so many suppliers in Australia. And the EP801 motor fits motor frames all the way back to the E6100 motor. So you can change your Shimano E6100 motor to a EP801, with little issues. You will need to upgrade all the electronics. But there is an upgrade path.

If you are concerned, make the investment in longevity now. Buy spare batteries and motor now. This should give you many years of service. An EP801 motor is AUD$1250, and the 630Wh Battery is AUD$860.

That said. If I get 10 years out of a bike. I'm ready to sell it off as spare parts. The bike I'm currently running has the the EP600 motor from the factory, which has the same bolt pattern as the EP801. I will definitely install the EP801 if it fails. And will buy an EP801, if Shimano announce they are going to phase the EP801 out. Same with the battery. I have the Shimano 630Wh. I can buy the Shimano 630Wh or 500Wh battery. Both fit with no issues.

So there are definite bikes and components you can buy, if concerned about longevity. You just need to do research before buying your ebike. Buying then discovering that what you have purchased has no upgrade path is something the buyer needs to avoid buy making informed choices. Harsh ..... But true.

So do you think it would be possible to modify the Canyon Spectral:ON with it's EP801 motor to take Shimano batteries? There's plenty of room in the downtube for sure as it's currently got a huge 900wh battery pack.

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

That must be illegal in so many consumer rights legislation, not just in the EU where Canyon are based (Germany I think), but also the UK. It sounds like you will have little difficulty getting what you want. Your complaint must be to the place you bought your bike, they are the ones with which you have a contract.

Or at least make a big publicity splash in the newspapers on the basis of don't buy from Canyon.

Thanks Steve, Canyon are online only, direct from Germany but they do have UK based, umm, not sure what they're called, possibly 'service centres' with a UK HQ which is whom I'm corresponding with.
Interestingly, I'm in conversation with an MTB journalist who has direct experience with the Spectral:ON and Canyon, watch this space.

 

[Elvi$]

This is a great DIY motor /battery change:

Bafang M620 in a Cube frame

My first DIY bike, too heavy, too little range and far too much power. But ideal for pulling the dog trailer ? The M620 is the biggest one of the Bafang family, and with almost 7 kg actually much too heavy But I love the programming options that you have with the Eggrider V2 Display and...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Astro66]

So do you think it would be possible to modify the Canyon Spectral:ON with it's EP801 motor to take Shimano batteries? There's plenty of room in the downtube for sure as it's currently got a huge 900wh battery pack.

If the 630Wh Shimano battery fits in the downtube. You would need a way to fasten the top mount and bottom mount to the bike's downtube.

You could permanently mount the top mount then still slide the battery in and fasten the bottom mount. So not something I would want to do to a new bike. But if the option is scrapping the frame or finding a way to fit the battery. Then I would engineer a way to use the Shimano battery.

I have built about 5 Ebikes. 4 of which were EMTBs. So engineering solutions to things that didn't quite fit, is something I have a lot of experience with, and I'm not shy in modifying frames if required. But if your not the type to enjoy this. Then it's not a path you should take.

Look. Hopefully Canyon will get stock in the EU of your existing battery again. And if they do. Just buy a spare, so you'll have many years of original configuration riding. The other thing is, the battery can be bought in the US. So it might be worth finding a way to buy one there, and get it shipped to you. Sometimes finding a way to circumvent the incompetence of others, is the best way forward, rather than beating your head against a wall in frustration, fighting them.

Best of luck anyway.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Canyon Spectral ON 2019 with 2 backup DUE8000 and two BT-E8016 630 Wh I expect it to last at least 12 years

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

Canyon Spectral ON 2019 37000 km with 2 DUE8000 and a BT-E8016 630 Wh backrest I have e bike for at least 12 years

View attachment 145780

What Saddle is that?

 

[John Beedham]

you probably ride your e-mtb loads more ... justifies the cost ... maybe

 

[franciscoasismm]

What Saddle is that?

Neuron:ON AL 5.0

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

Neuron:ON AL 5.0

View attachment 145785

Ah, standard/OEM saddle then, nice.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Ah, standard/OEM saddle then, nice.

Enhanced with DT SWISS H1900 and Yaris150mm