emtb longevity?

[Binhill1]

I am finally moving on from a 2004 specialized comp into the emtb world.

However I wonder if it is realistic to expect an emtb's longevity to last anywhere near as long as an analogue bike? I am fine with the reality of needing to replace an engine or battery, the real question is, how long can those replacement parts realistically be expected to be available?

If I buy a bike with a shimano 801 motor and a 630 watt battery, and in 10 years time that battery and/or motor needs to be replaced, what are the odds the replacement parts will be available? what about 15 years?

At the very least I would hope a decade is not too much to ask for parts availability, but even that seems to be... I dont know... a bit low when talking about a $5K to $10K investment.

Is it just a sad reality that these very expensive ebikes are going to have a radically shorter lifespan and whole bicycle replacement (on a shorter term) needs to be factored in as a reality?

I'm in year six with my Levo , never thought about that though . In fact I'm thinking of buying a spare battery.

 

[Downhillr]

I've never kept a bike more than five years. Even on Amish bikes, the technology advances so quickly that a four year old bike isn't all that good any more. So from my perspective, the only part that isn't obsolete on a 10 year old bike is the air in the tires.

Seeing as how most of the bike parts on an e-bike share wheels, brakes, bars, saddles, cranks, cassettes and other parts which don’t necessarily have technological changes (certainly not ones that would render them outdated in 4 years) an analog bike would easily be viable longer than just 4-5 years. I happen to change-out my ride on about that schedule, however it’s by my choice, not because the mfg lacks customer support.

 

[MountainBoy]

I am finally moving on from a 2004 specialized comp into the emtb world.

However I wonder if it is realistic to expect an emtb's longevity to last anywhere near as long as an analogue bike? I am fine with the reality of needing to replace an engine or battery, the real question is, how long can those replacement parts realistically be expected to be available?

If I buy a bike with a shimano 801 motor and a 630 watt battery, and in 10 years time that battery and/or motor needs to be replaced, what are the odds the replacement parts will be available? what about 15 years?

At the very least I would hope a decade is not too much to ask for parts availability, but even that seems to be... I dont know... a bit low when talking about a $5K to $10K investment.

Is it just a sad reality that these very expensive ebikes are going to have a radically shorter lifespan and whole bicycle replacement (on a shorter term) needs to be factored in as a reality?

The batteries and motors can last a really long time, but electric car batteries have the edge here because they are thermally regulated with a coolant solution that can cool or warm the batteries as necessary.

That said, even unregulated eMTB batteries can last a long time, the primary problem is the particular battery you may want to replace in 10 years will likely no longer be available. The cells will be available, just not the configured pack. So you will need a skilled battery rebuilder if you want to keep the bike on the road. Of course, if you buy popular, high volume eMTBs, batteries will probably be available for at least 15 years or more.

 

[Binhill1]

Things get outdated quicker these days I think ? . You still get 26 inch wheels but it's getting harder to buy from you local bike shop. I have a old custom hardtail MTB with a one inch frame , gave up trying to get a decent suspension fork for it many years ago. Ebikes probably the most expensive bike most people have bought unless your a serious roadie I would have thought. But what do I know.

 

[super_claret]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

It’s a disgrace that they are even selling you one if they no longer make batteries. What happens if your battery fails in the first year?

 

[Binhill1]

It’s a disgrace that they are even selling you one if they no longer make batteries. What happens if your battery fails in the first year?

Yes that shouldn't be legal really. Someone will know Consumers rights etc.

 

[Giff]

As second hand bikes will drop in value (have!) you may see more sold as parts extending the life of others?

 

[RustyIron]

an analog bike would easily be viable longer than just 4-5 years. I happen to change-out my ride on about that schedule, however it’s by my choice, not because the mfg lacks customer support.

I think you're right. I don't think I've EVER been left hanging due to lack of support. There have been times I didn't get what I wanted, but never have I been left unable to ride. Nowadays, it seems like companies bend over backwards to ensure customer satisfaction.

 

[Binhill1]

For me now a lot depends on my finances. I never grudged anything
( or I didn't see the waste ) when I was flush with money . Must admit since I retired i am more aware that there is more going out than there is coming in . I probably changed bikes every 5 years maybe sooner , never took much notice to be honest I would need to check . Dont get me wrong i could buy a new one the morn but do I really need one , it's too easy to go with the flow . I have so changed as I get older and not necessarily wiser , just more content and not so erratic. Saturday night now remember.

 

[RustyIron]

Saturday night now remember.

That's the greatest risk when you retire. Youngsters think we're loosing our memory because we don't know what day it is. What they don't realize is that we don't care. I pay a little attention to the calendar because I'd rather ride when the Job People are locked in their cubes, and I prefer to dine out before they're released for the day.

 

[Binhill1]

That's the greatest risk when you retire. Youngsters think we're loosing our memory because we don't know what day it is. What they don't realize is that we don't care. I pay a little attention to the calendar because I'd rather ride when the Job People are locked in their cubes, and I prefer to dine out before they're released for the day.

Brilliant but I hear the young team saying Silly Auld xxxxs , but sadly a lot of folk won't live as long as we have done .

 

[Downhillr]

Brilliant but I hear the young team saying Silly Auld xxxxs , but sadly a lot of folk won't live as long as we have done .

If they’re truly being snarky maybe just tell ‘em “while you’re at work, I’ll be out playing”!

 

[RustyIron]

If they’re truly being snarky maybe just tell ‘em “while you’re at work, I’ll be out playing”!

It amuses me that I ride better than most 20 somethings.
But for those who ride better than me, I don't feel bad...
I'm nearly three times their age...
and I could have been their daddy if I had only left it in a few more seconds.

 

[franciscoasismm]

It amuses me that I ride better than most 20 somethings.
But for those who ride better than me, I don't feel bad...
I'm nearly three times their age...
and I could have been their daddy if I had only left it in a few more seconds.

I'm an old fart, with a 2019 ebike. Proud to have reached 62 years of age. 55 years riding in and only one tibia and fibula break at the age of 11. Long before downhill pioneer Jimmy Deaton was already throwing me downhill

 

[Arminius]

It amuses me that I ride better than most 20 somethings.
But for those who ride better than me, I don't feel bad...
I'm nearly three times their age...
and I could have been their daddy if I had only left it in a few more seconds.

….grandpa!

 

[EMTBSEAN]

that’s disgraceful that the shop sold you a bike which is in effect obsolete, I’d get in touch with Trading Standards

 

[Swissrider]

I have three e-bikes; a 2017 KTM town bike, with a Bosch performance CX motor, which still comes on some new bikes. It’s done well over 6000km and I see no reason why it shouldn’t keep going, since Bosch motors can be serviced. Not sure I would be able to get another battery but they were pretty common at the time.
I have a 2018 Kenevo., First motor started making clicking noises when hot at 1,500 km and was replaced under warrenty. I took this motor (on the plane to UK) to have it serviced by Performance Line Bearings. That motor has done a further 4000km and if it goes wrong I can get it fixed. I can still get a replacement battery. So far so good. I also have an Orbea rise. It rides great and with the extender can far outlast the Kenevo on long rides BUT the motor is not repairable which really worries me as it’s now out of warranty, which makes me regret buying it slightly (in my defence PLB were repairing Shimano motors at the time - no longer the case).
The new DJI bike looks amazing but I would only buy it if it can be repaired. I also have a nine year old motorbike but that could easily last another five years and I would still be able to sell it.
Although manufacturers would have us believe our old bikes are completely out of date, a lot, of the new technology, like connectivity, doesn’t make much difference to the riding experience. How much difference is there between the current Levo (which is still doing well in tests) and one five years old? I still enjoy riding my six year old Kenevo (sometimes more so) than my much more “modern” Rise.

 

[CraigR]

EMTB's are running $5k-$6k (US) right now for carbon fiber EMTB's with 85nm motors and 800w batteries. Why would you worry about $2k of parts (motor plus battery) in 5 years on a $5k bike? It would not make any kind of financial sense to spend that kind of money fixing up a 5 year old bike let alone a 10 year old bike. The technology advancements alone in 5 years would make it such that you would just buy a new bike at that time.

 

[Streddaz]

EMTB's are running $5k-$6k (US) right now for carbon fiber EMTB's with 85nm motors and 800w batteries. Why would you worry about $2k of parts (motor plus battery) in 5 years on a $5k bike? It would not make any kind of financial sense to spend that kind of money fixing up a 5 year old bike let alone a 10 year old bike. The technology advancements alone in 5 years would make it such that you would just buy a new bike at that time.

That's a kind of wasteful way of thinking. Just throw you bike in the garbage every 5 years.

You often don't have to buy a whole new motor, most can be rebuilt and spending $1k on a battery is still way cheaper than $5k to $6k.

 

[jgf]

EMTB's are running $5k-$6k (US) right now for carbon fiber EMTB's with 85nm motors and 800w batteries. Why would you worry about $2k of parts (motor plus battery) in 5 years on a $5k bike? It would not make any kind of financial sense to spend that kind of money fixing up a 5 year old bike let alone a 10 year old bike. The technology advancements alone in 5 years would make it such that you would just buy a new bike at that time.

2 reasons really...

1) I'd rather not be sending a bike to the dump every 5 to 6 years

2) I'd rather not be spending $5 to $6K every 5 to 6 years

 

[Hem Dog]

Worryingly, my brand new Canyon Spectral:On CF8 could be the first victim to the above. I've had it less than a week and I messaged Canyon Support over the weekend to be greeted to this " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " WTF?!?

I am considering returning it under my statutory rights, there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but the lack of batteries worries me greatly.

I have a 2023 Spectral:On Cf8 and in 2023 Canyon started using the Ep801 and the batteries for these motors are produced by a 3rd party company that is partnered with Shimano. If you’re having battery problems Shimano should service your battery. I just had to start a warranty claim with Shimano due to my bike unexpectedly shutting off while riding. Still waiting to find out the exact problem. Connect your bike with etube and it will tell you what battery you have. Mine shows Trend Power Simplo 900w battery. Shimano services these.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/info...-to-3rd-party-e-bike-battery-service-pro.html

 

[whitymon]

I have a 2023 Spectral:On Cf8 and in 2023 Canyon started using the Ep801 and the batteries for these motors are produced by a 3rd party company that is partnered with Shimano. If you’re having battery problems Shimano should service your battery. I just had to start a warranty claim with Shimano due to my bike unexpectedly shutting off while riding. Still waiting to find out the exact problem. Connect your bike with etube and it will tell you what battery you have. Mine shows Trend Power Simplo 900w battery. Shimano services these.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/info...-to-3rd-party-e-bike-battery-service-pro.html

Not sure this is going to be a worldwide thing.

When you will have an issue with the specific canyon battery, there is really no guarantee that the partner you will find will be able to do anything and even more cope with warranty. They will look at it, potentially, but as it could be a totally different design it might be hard. If Canyon does not sell spare batteries, there might be some reason.

It guess this is not different than saying, oh let's ask an electrician to see if he can do something like replace some cell. Pretty hard to find these days to find skilled people.

At the very least with canyon: 1. you cannot buy a spare custom battery, 2. Even if you could it would be hell expensive 3. if something happens past Canyon warranty - which comes pretty fast - your bike is in the best scenario a brick for a long long moment, worth, dead.

This industry is a total mess, you cannot expect people spending 5-10k and have potentially no way to use it within few years.

 

[Hem Dog]

Not sure this is going to be a worldwide thing.

When you will have an issue with the specific canyon battery, there is really no guarantee that the partner you will find will be able to do anything and even more cope with warranty. They will look at it, potentially, but as it could be a totally different design it might be hard. If Canyon does not sell spare batteries, there might be some reason.

It guess this is not different than saying, oh let's ask an electrician to see if he can do something like replace some cell. Pretty hard to find these days to find skilled people.

At the very least with canyon: 1. you cannot buy a spare custom battery, 2. Even if you could it would be hell expensive 3. if something happens past Canyon warranty - which comes pretty fast - your bike is in the best scenario a brick for a long long moment, worth, dead.

This industry is a total mess, you cannot expect people spending 5-10k and have potentially no way to use it within few years.

Unfortunately you can’t buy a spare battery for the ep801. I checked because I wanted to buy one as a back up and they only sell batteries for the older ep8. I have a strong suspicion it’s the battery and not the motor but when I find out I’ll come back and report the issue here.

 

[whitymon]

@Hem Dog I just discussed with Canyon this morning to see if they could sell a battery to me - to see if a TorqueOn could be of interest to me - after few hours they just told me no, they are out of stock.

So it seems they only have one battery per frame or motor in their warehouse ... really odd!

 

[Hem Dog]

@Hem Dog I just discussed with Canyon this morning to see if they could sell a battery to me - to see if a Torquen could be of interest to me - after few hours they just told me no, they are out of stock.

So it seems they only have one battery per frame in their warehouse ... really odd!

Yeah if you have an ep801 Canyon does not sell batteries for it. Overall I really like my Spectral but my next bike will be from a brand that is common here and where spare parts are more widely available.

 

[Picard12]

What about propain? Does propain sell Shimano battery?

 

[whitymon]

What about propain? Does propain sell Shimano battery?

It is not a story of who sell what but which brand build and use custom batteries.

If they do, like Canyon on some models, just avoid it. On the torque and spectral on you will never be able to fit something else.

Guess what the torque is still on sell which is basically a big shame or scam depending on how you feel it.

I think propain use standard batteries.

 

[Bndit]

Not sure this is going to be a worldwide thing.

When you will have an issue with the specific canyon battery, there is really no guarantee that the partner you will find will be able to do anything and even more cope with warranty. They will look at it, potentially, but as it could be a totally different design it might be hard. If Canyon does not sell spare batteries, there might be some reason.

It guess this is not different than saying, oh let's ask an electrician to see if he can do something like replace some cell. Pretty hard to find these days to find skilled people.

At the very least with canyon: 1. you cannot buy a spare custom battery, 2. Even if you could it would be hell expensive 3. if something happens past Canyon warranty - which comes pretty fast - your bike is in the best scenario a brick for a long long moment, worth, dead.

This industry is a total mess, you cannot expect people spending 5-10k and have potentially no way to use it within few years.

You will get the battery, there's lot's of problems now with those batteries so there's shortage. It will be fixed and then things rock again.

 

[whitymon]

You will get the battery, there's lot's of problems now with those batteries so there's shortage. It will be fixed and then things rock again.

Interesting, care to share real sources about that because this could help people buying or not.
Out of the air saying what you said can also mislead - or inform which is good too - people that these batteries have issues but they still sell them as is in current bike, that would be atrocious: same as all other parts they sold in the past knowing it was crap and need to be replaced (not gonna list them all here, best example is their fault headset parts with acros on several mtb) - they were just sell out their stock.

In any case, have also in mind that custom batteries made by a brand bike will always have pretty low volume and stock compared to a `classic` battery for example.

They have no obligation of any sort to still build and sell them past the time they move onto a new version, humor me so it can happen pretty soon these days, especially as they built custom battery to fit custom frame.

 

[Bndit]

Interesting, care to share real sources about that because this could help people buying or not.
Out of the air saying what you said can also mislead - or inform which is good too - people that these batteries have issues but they still sell them as is in current bike, that would be atrocious: same as all other parts they sold in the past knowing it was crap and need to be replaced (not gonna list them all here, best example is their fault headset parts with acros on several mtb) - they were just sell out their stock.

In any case, have also in mind that custom batteries made by a brand bike will always have pretty low volume and stock compared to a `classic` battery for example.

They have no obligation of any sort to still build and sell them past the time they move onto a new version, humor me so it can happen pretty soon these days, especially as they built custom battery to fit custom frame.

So you are saying that it's more likely so that Canyon will ditch their whole lineup which is build around these custom batteries and start to build bikes with standard Shimano batteries than battery problem will be fixed and business goes on as planned? Shit comes out from factories, all kind of quality issues, that's why we have warranties. If it happens so that customer is unhappy about the product he purchased, He will probably choose different brand next time. Free of choise.

People don't buy Canyon because of it's build quality but because of price. You can't get everything.

I don't think anybody should buy a spare battery if it's not needed/used regulary because after three/four years of lousy storage it could be worse than the original which is used regulary...