EMTB and Jumps - What's the go??

[Oupy]

Hi EMTB Community

About to take the plunge on a Trek Rail, but there is one area that I can't seem to get any clear information around - jumps.

The information and content around this seems to vary wildly, EMBN videos say "EMTB's love to jump, super stable in the air", then you read through the comments and there is things like "you can only complete jump lines with a de-restricted bike", Or now with the current crop of SL bikes coming through, "There is no way I could be doing this on a full fat emtb".

Now I understand everyone rides differently and I think that is one of the best things about mountain biking! For myself, I'd say jumping is one of the areas of MTB I find most enjoyable and the sensation of cleanly hitting jump line is one of the most satisfying and fun things you can do on a bike.

So really keen for some feedback from the forum on this topic

• How is does your EMTB handle jumping?
• Do you need to derestrict to cleanly hit lines you could on an analogue bike?
• If you struggle, do you feel is it a bike issue or a technique issue?
• Plus anything else you feel will add to to this convo!

I currently have a Fuel EX and am wanting to add another bike to the stable and see a EMTB as a gateway to more runs and longer sessions. I had originally been thinking along the lines of a longer travel enduro bike, but it seems the current gen EMTB's are as capable as an enduro bike, but am looking for some validation in regards to jumping capability and if this could be a fun-limiting factor.

 

[yorkshire89]

Depends entirely on the jump, if you need to pedal hard (25-30mph) on a normal bike before the jump then you might struggle on a restricted ebike.
For most jumps they are fine, pop nicely and feel really stable in the air!

 

[James_C]

quite an open ended question. What is your definition of "jumps". A few tables at your local bike park? Or the 100 footers at Darkfest?

I bought an emtb for jumping and general tooling around and I love it. Actually prefer it in the air to a normal bike. Yes there is no assist above 15mph but that is actually quite fast to be hitting a jump. If you are struggling to get up to speed then I'd suggest looking at your speed gained from the previous jumps/corners as that is where you carry it along from. There generally shouldnt be a huge pedal effort required on the way in.

My emtb does feel more heavy/awkward on steeper close together bmx type dirt jumps but they arent really my thing anyway.

 

[CJaMTB]

If you can't jump the bike in it's restricted form, you need to work on your technique. Just watch the vids of Chris Smith on EMBN. That's not a dig at anyone, it's just honest. That said, there are some bikes, as with any MTB, that are better than others. As stated above, it also depends on a degree to your version of jumps. I have a Levo SL and an E-Sommet 297, one weighs sub 20kgs all up, the other +25kgs. Both work well in their own ways, though I have to adjust my technique slightly for each one.

 

[#mitch]

pretty well

 

[Stihldog]

This.

Not this.

In reality …This.

 

[Jorel]

My experience is, that eeebs need a bit more speed and lot of body-effort to jump the same length or height as amish-bikes.
Took me a bit of practice, some decent crashes but now it works for me

 

[Norange]

pretty well

This makes my day, first thought without reading the text was that must be historical footage. That documentary is extremely powerful viewing for those who've never seen it. Think it's still up on iPlayer.

 

[#mitch]

Yeah it’s next level right!

 

[Mikerb]

I am no expert on jumps.........and the jumps I hit are relatively small on natural forest trails...not bike park which bores me to tears! Each to their own!!
To my mind there are 2 types of jump as they relate to speed of entry. Those where speed of entry does most of the work and those where lack of speed means greater imput is required from the rider. Jumps on a gravity trail give you the option to do either, whereas jumps where the lead in is level and maybe short...........or gravity jump lines that are badly designed, can mean on an EMTB not being able to gain sufficient speed....so more rider input is the only option. The latter is especially the case if it is a gap jump!!
Other than that I feel the biggest difference between bikes is all about the amount of suspension travel and how the suspension is set up. The heavier EMTB can be set up with gloriously plush suspension because the weight of the bike makes the suspension work so much better. That can however act against you on a jump ramp. So I invariable increase LSC if I am mostly messing a bout on a few jumps in the forest.

 

[Husky430]

I'm under the impression that more weight needs more speed to jump the same height/distance so therefore slightly different to a light non motored pedal bike. Not saying it can't be done but not quite as easily as a clockwork bike.

 

[Oupy]

Thanks all, some great insights... And some sick pictures too!

I think the trail design is indeed a big part of the equation, if I look at what I'm doing on my analogue bike there are rarely if ever any mad pedalling before hitting the jumps, maybe even more of a bias towards a brake check as to not overshoot.

So in regard to the weight, how does rider weight vs bike weight get factored in:

If a rider was say 80kg with a 25kg EMTB, vs a 90Kg rider with a 15kg Analogue - so in essence both are 105kg total weight, how would this affect jump distance/amplitude etc or would gravity have the exact same effect? I rarely see this point mentioned as a counter to the weight argument.

 

[#mitch]

Gravity affects all things equally. Your weight is only an issue when you hit the ground your centre of gravity will be different but that’s about it

 

[Rusty]

I don't jump much these days, but have to really work hard to jump some things on my eMTB that I can on other bikes. Even at my local park there is a smallish tabletop I just make the down slope on the eMTB, but a couple weeks ago on a rigid singlespeed I overjumped and flat landed. My Scott is good for jump style tracks as the dual lockout makes it a lot easier to work than having to adjust both front and rear - also allows to go all squishy between jumps with a single click.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I always overjump. If you're not landing flat you're doing it wrong. landing ramps are for pussies.

 

[#lazy]

I find ebikes no different except more stable if you hit a root or rock before take off ! On a jump line speed shouldn’t be an issue as long as you land in the sweet spot as the extra weight should give you more speed !
If you need to put in a few pedals you don’t want to hit the limiter before the last one

 

[Mikerb]

Thanks all, some great insights... And some sick pictures too!

I think the trail design is indeed a big part of the equation, if I look at what I'm doing on my analogue bike there are rarely if ever any mad pedalling before hitting the jumps, maybe even more of a bias towards a brake check as to not overshoot.

So in regard to the weight, how does rider weight vs bike weight get factored in:

If a rider was say 80kg with a 25kg EMTB, vs a 90Kg rider with a 15kg Analogue - so in essence both are 105kg total weight, how would this affect jump distance/amplitude etc or would gravity have the exact same effect? I rarely see this point mentioned as a counter to the weight argument.

It is not quite as simple as that. A heavier bike is slower to initially accelerate but once inertia is overcome will carry more momentum. If you then consider the use of 29 wheels etc there is less impeding resistance from the trail. The nett result is that a heavier bike on a gradient is likely to reach higher speeds. Hence on a bike park type jump line if the gradient is sufficient and there is sufficient distance to the first jump.......and you land that jump without losing momentum, and so on, you are likely to be freewheeling over the motor cut off speed and more likely to want to moderate your speed than increase it!! In the air an EMTB is far more stable, than a light bike, especially if it is windy. I think an EMTB does benefit from longer suspension travel for landing however...........unless the landing is a downslope and you are consistently good at soaking up the landing and avoiding flat landings.
As I said a bove I prefer natural forest trails where no jump..no lead in, no landing, is perfetly manicured..........and it is likely the jump will be different from session to session due to weather and wear. More challenges!!

 

[Mikerb]

Gravity affects all things equally. Your weight is only an issue when you hit the ground your centre of gravity will be different but that’s about it

........but most landings are not vertical!! The rate at which the bike/rider hits the ground is a vector of the effect of gravity and the forward momentum. Whilst the effect of gravity will be the same for 2 different masses of bike/rider with roughly the same density, the forward momentum element could be wildly different.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

jumping, no problem at all..

successful landings are where its at

 

[AusE]

I find the only time it's an issue is when I come out of a corner close to a take of and start accelerating and the assist cuts out knowing that I haven't got enough speed, that socks. All other times it's as stable as a dh bike in the air.

 

[Norange]

jumping, no problem at all..

successful landings are where its at

Agreed, I land 100% of the time. The bike has similar stats.

 

[#mitch]

........but most landings are not vertical!! The rate at which the bike/rider hits the ground is a vector of the effect of gravity and the forward momentum. Whilst the effect of gravity will be the same for 2 different masses of bike/rider with roughly the same density, the forward momentum element could be wildly different.

yeah fair enough, by the time you get to the landing you are either going to make it or not is what I was trying to say.

 

[goroncy]

Go and test before buying. Speed isn't actually the problem with e-MTBs. In most cases they are much easier to jump because they are stable in the air. The only problem is with the situations when you are jumping something that requires you to add a serious bunny hop during takeoff. This is the awkward moment because you suddenly feel that you are trying to lift something really heavy. Still. Jumping these things is easy. Making tabletops and whips in the air is 100 times easier than I thought it would be. And my e-MTB is one of the heavier ones - 25kg.

 

[#lazy]

Was he the one the apple fell on his head or was that chicken licken ?
Edit forget the above

 

[Tedgar]

I rode my Levo at a lift park. Battery was off all day. For me, a guy barely clearing blue jump lines, the Levo jumps as good as my DH bike and way better than my regular enduro/all mountain bike. I think the heaviness and long rear end make me less scared (like a DH bike) and I can ride it faster....in my case riding the brakes less than normal. LOL

 

[1oldfart]

I suggest you get more specific.
What is your weight?
What is illegal in your area?
At 140 pounds in Canada with Ebikes reaching 20MPH legally
it is not similar for a 210 pounder with a lower legal speed limit.

 

[chamaruco]

Yup. This is a recent discovery Mr. Albert Einstein published this.

also you can just pull up harder at the same speed.

and dying he said...if you stop pedalling you'll fall down

 

[KnollyBro]

Jumps will mostly be about technique and confidence but if you don't have the correct speed, you will most likely case the landing (re: technique and confidence). If a trail is built properly, one should not need to pedal into a jump. Many people confuse jumps and drops. They are definitely different and require different technique.
Most of the time when riders do not let the bike get up to trail speed and they will case a jump which is no big deal unless its a gap jump!

Whistler Bike Park: Lower Freight Train on a Levo SL. First run of the day, first run of the season at a bike park in 2 years so probably not the best example of emtb jumping...

 

[Binhill1]

Jumps will mostly be about technique and confidence but if you don't have the correct speed, you will most likely case the landing (re: technique and confidence). If a trail is built properly, one should not need to pedal into a jump. Many people confuse jumps and drops. They are definitely different and require different technique.
Most of the time when riders do not let the bike get up to trail speed and they will case a jump which is no big deal unless its a gap jump!

Whistler Bike Park: Lower Freight Train on a Levo SL. First run of the day, first run of the season at a bike park in 2 years so probably not the best example of emtb jumping...

Love to bike there , just back from a couple of weeks skiing at Whistler. My biking is a lot better than ma skiing.

 

[Tedgar]

Jumps will mostly be about technique and confidence but if you don't have the correct speed, you will most likely case the landing (re: technique and confidence). If a trail is built properly, one should not need to pedal into a jump. Many people confuse jumps and drops. They are definitely different and require different technique.
Most of the time when riders do not let the bike get up to trail speed and they will case a jump which is no big deal unless its a gap jump!

Whistler Bike Park: Lower Freight Train on a Levo SL. First run of the day, first run of the season at a bike park in 2 years so probably not the best example of emtb jumping...

KnollyBro, u r the perfect guy to ask this as Imagine you have rode regular Levos.

My knolly warden scares me at parks. I dont not ride well enough to justify a DH bike. I ride one because I am more comfortable with the speed and size of jumps on a DH bike. I get that same comfort level in the Levo.

If I get the SL will is feel sketchy like the Warden or nice and planted like the Levo? I have been thinking about selling the Levo and getting the SL.