Ebike eating chains

Labrador29

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2019
210
173
Marlborough New Zealand
Off-topic sorry - not exaggerating my head hurts much more now due to a heavy heavy Magpie direct hit. I wasn't wearing a helmet, nobody does around town here. Pretty sure it's the same big Alpha male bird that's swooped me before & of course he recognises me and does not like the Kenevo or any bike for that matter. This time it felt like an impact with a sack of potatoes and it feels like mild concussion. Helmet on in breeding season from now on.
Last October (NZ) in nesting season, I was attacked every time I rode solo past trees bordering a vineyard. One day I reversed my helmet cam around, and was really surprised how this Magpie was able to strike the back of my helmet 6 times in rapid succession. Drew blood. Amazing ability in flight to strike repeatedly quickly. Can I place the 30 second video on this site easily? It is worth watching.
 

urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
995
Tasmania
Very curious
Why do you run hollow links on an E bike??? In less i"m missing something, they not only cost more but are not as strong as solid links.
There is a weight savings, but when you're already 23 Kg, what's the point?
Despite having rear mechs with clutches, the chains still bounce around underneath like crazy. Watch any video. More weight has to be more stress on that mech. Also I imagine a heavier chain would be slightly slower and harder shifting for the mech?
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Last October (NZ) in nesting season, I was attacked every time I rode solo past trees bordering a vineyard. One day I reversed my helmet cam around, and was really surprised how this Magpie was able to strike the back of my helmet 6 times in rapid succession. Drew blood. Amazing ability in flight to strike repeatedly quickly. Can I place the 30 second video on this site easily? It is worth watching.
You can upload the video to your User Album above & then Gallery embed into your post.

Wow 6 strikes in rapid succession !!! I still love the little bastards, it's the one that connected with what I thought was it's heavy arse with my head that better watch out - I read about heavy hit Magpie attacks like mine - and apparently they lead with their chest not their arse. Phew :|
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,535
5,015
Weymouth
Very curious
Why do you run hollow links on an E bike??? In less i"m missing something, they not only cost more but are not as strong as solid links.
There is a weight savings, but when you're already 23 Kg, what's the point?
By accident initially because I was sent one instead of the one I ordered. Having used it I found gear change was sli cker and over time found it also seemed to suffer less wear. My current chain has done 650 miles and is only just a little over 0.5. and still working smoothly on original cassette and chainwheel.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
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Mar 29, 2018
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Ha! That’s wild.
Yeah, small world indeed. I was in a flat in Bentinck St. the street behind Park Grove terrace from probably '91-94ish so same time as you. We were the opposite end from Gary St, facing the recording studio with a bay view window to the cars dropping folk off to the brothel round the corner on Derby St. ;)
Yeah. The area's changed tons since then, Finnieston and Kelvingrove are really quite trendy now.
don't you mean the chippy on Argyle St (opposite the bingo)? There was a Chinese on Sauchiehall St next to the papershop the irish family ran and an indian over the road but no chippy on Sauchiehall St until you walked all the way to charing cross and into town.
We had a small black mongrel (dog) called "Reese" back then. He'd run away quite a bit and most of the local kids knew him and where to return him if he was out on his own. There's a fair chance your kids would have known him but if not, probably knew the same kids (probably around your daughter's age at the time) The only name I remember from that group of kids is "Jaheid" a small but loud wee Asian boy who loved Reese.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
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Mar 29, 2018
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A hollow pin/link chain is roughly 20g lighter than the equivalent solid pin/link chain over 114 links. We're talking 260g versus 280g here.
This means the portion of chain running from the lower chain ring to the mechs tension pulley (roughly a third of your full chain length) will generally be less than 7g lighter. (and will change depending on gear, chainstay length etc.) Bearing in mind the only tension in that portion of chain is actually created by your derailleur's spring (and clutch) I'd call that particular weight saving negligible in creating less stress on your derailleur. (it's designed to take exactly those stresses)
Your whole chain will be significantly weaker than a solid pin/link version though. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense on an Ebike.
 

mtbninja

New Member
Jul 13, 2020
31
20
Canberra, Australia
Thanks all, looks like I need to adapt how I ride. Coming from an acoustic, I’ve never really considered shifting under load and just rode the bike. The ebike has to be treated differently, so it’s a case of being more conscious about how and when I shift.
I think I’ll try the KMC Hollow Link chain. My mate has a Kenevo which I’m sure uses a KMC and he’s not had an issue.
I’ll keep a stock of quick links though just in case!!
I think you should take anything you work out on the emtb back to the regular acoustic bike, if you still have one, it'll make things work better and last longer.
 

Canmore TLCC 29

Active member
Jun 16, 2020
142
115
Canmore, AB Canada
Yeah, small world indeed. I was in a flat in Bentinck St. the street behind Park Grove terrace from probably '91-94ish so same time as you. We were the opposite end from Gary St, facing the recording studio with a bay view window to the cars dropping folk off to the brothel round the corner on Derby St. ;)
Yeah. The area's changed tons since then, Finnieston and Kelvingrove are really quite trendy now.
don't you mean the chippy on Argyle St (opposite the bingo)? There was a Chinese on Sauchiehall St next to the papershop the irish family ran and an indian over the road but no chippy on Sauchiehall St until you walked all the way to charing cross and into town.
We had a small black mongrel (dog) called "Reese" back then. He'd run away quite a bit and most of the local kids knew him and where to return him if he was out on his own. There's a fair chance your kids would have known him but if not, probably knew the same kids (probably around your daughter's age at the time) The only name I remember from that group of kids is "Jaheid" a small but loud wee Asian boy who loved Reese.
I remember Reese. And you confirmed the Parkgrove House was a brothel. My son pointed it out, and I was skeptical. Son Jamie hung with Derek and daughter Emily hung with Sara. Jamie got suspended for telling the head master to blow it out his trumpet, and another phrase that clinched the suspension. Phrases he didn’t know before moving to Glasgow. Those were good years to live in Glasgow. My wife went to the Uni while I worked in Denmark. Interesting story. Jamie returned in 2001. He was at a pub, and left his passport and wallet on the bar. He was freaking out until he returned thw next morning after they opened to find everything behind the bar, with nothing missing. Glaswegians, ya gotta love em. Good people, at least those from that part of town.
 

Labrador29

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2019
210
173
Marlborough New Zealand
You can upload the video to your User Album above & then Gallery embed into your post.

Wow 6 strikes in rapid succession !!! I still love the little bastards, it's the one that connected with what I thought was it's heavy arse with my head that better watch out - I read about heavy hit Magpie attacks like mine - and apparently they lead with their chest not their arse. Phew :|
Yep, you can see in the video this Magpie killing speed and striking with its chest. Obviously using its claws as well. All so quick. I have tried to upload my video but not having a lot of success. Will keep trying.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
Yep, you can see in the video this Magpie killing speed and striking with its chest. Obviously using its claws as well. All so quick. I have tried to upload my video but not having a lot of success. Will keep trying.
Yes it must have been a claw that drew blood in front of my ear lobe. Had the concussion self-diagnosis confirmed by a doctor & still suffering over a week later.

If it’s a YouTube vid you can post the link or embed it by Add Media & pasting the link and then delete the s from https://
 

Labrador29

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2019
210
173
Marlborough New Zealand
Yes it must have been a claw that drew blood in front of my ear lobe. Had the concussion self-diagnosis confirmed by a doctor & still suffering over a week later.

If it’s a YouTube vid you can post the link or embed it by Add Media & pasting the link and then delete the s from https://
I'll give it a try tomorrow, tks.
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
You should try breeding season in Germany. The women will for sure hit you with a sack of potato’s here.
Ha well at least the concussion would have been worth being dazed & confused for a week! In fact I'll be there as soon as the pandemic is over - with impact protection :)

01572_full_1.jpg
 
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wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
This won't chew yer chains. I think I've posted this previously but worthwhile repeating (cos I can despite being told to fuck right off lol) - the new Kindernnay at 1.5 kg compared to olde world derailleur, cassette & hub - the unsprung mass mathematics are obviously negligible. I'd like to try one but that usually means purchasing it before you test ride it.

Kindernay-XIV-MTB-internal-gear-hub_14-speed-thru-axle-mountain-bike-internally-geared-hub_eHeckler-e-bike.jpg
 

Philly G

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
692
517
New Zealand
This won't chew yer chains. I think I've posted this previously but worthwhile repeating (cos I can despite being told to fuck right off lol) - the new Kindernnay at 1.5 kg compared to olde world derailleur, cassette & hub - the unsprung mass mathematics are obviously negligible. I'd like to try one but that usually means purchasing it before you test ride it.

Kindernay-XIV-MTB-internal-gear-hub_14-speed-thru-axle-mountain-bike-internally-geared-hub_eHeckler-e-bike.jpg
How many speeds? Yes obvious advantages to this system, but somewhere around 900g heavier than olde worlde traditionale derailleur and cassette...I wouldn't say the difference is obviously negligible. Not that 900g is necessarily a killer on an eeb, but for unsprung mass I think it matters for sure
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
How many speeds? Yes obvious advantages to this system, but somewhere around 900g heavier than olde worlde traditionale derailleur and cassette...I wouldn't say the difference is obviously negligible. Not that 900g is necessarily a killer on an eeb, but for unsprung mass I think it matters for sure
Not sure but did you forget to include the weight of the hub in the derailleur cassette weight? Also just checked and the Kindernay without the SWAP cage is 1400 grams so I think the difference is much less than that. The Kindernay is 14 gears like the Rohloff.
 

Philly G

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
692
517
New Zealand
Not sure but did you forget to include the weight of the hub in the derailleur cassette weight? Also just checked and the Kindernay without the SWAP cage is 1400 grams so I think the difference is much less than that. The Kindernay is 14 gears like the Rohloff.
Fair call, I was just guestimating the weight. I'd be interested in researching it properly. If the difference is not really so big, this is something I'd be interested in. Already bent my hanger once, did my best to straighten, but the chain is trying to ride up when I'm in the bigger cogs. The derailleur is a vulnerable component for sure... just had a look, not sure if I'm too keen on having to use their custom rotor though
 
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wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
I recommend test riding any e-mtb with IGH. They're rare but that will change very rapidly.

There are a lot of details here but of course Rohloff has the electro shift E-14. Combine say a lighter Rohloff E-9 with a full size, maximum power Mahle Kenevo - I'd be scrambling to order. I hope Gary tells me to fuck off again :)

FAQ - Kindernay
 

Philly G

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
692
517
New Zealand

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
I must be as thick as pig shit, but then again at 74 I wasn't exactly born into the computer age. I have created an album with the magpie video (mp4). How do I embed it into my reply? Keep it simple please. You are dealing with a technical dinosaur!
I think I was born into the computer age - just - and I had big trouble working it out.

Click on the ? icon and you should see your Gallery contents ready to embed.

Gallery embed.jpg
 

knut7

Administrator
Author
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Apr 10, 2018
667
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Norway
How many speeds? Yes obvious advantages to this system, but somewhere around 900g heavier than olde worlde traditionale derailleur and cassette...I wouldn't say the difference is obviously negligible. Not that 900g is necessarily a killer on an eeb, but for unsprung mass I think it matters for sure
I talk a bit about weight increase in this Kindernay XIV review
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
1,006
1,145
AU
I talk a bit about weight increase in this Kindernay XIV review
“…It took me a few rides to get used to it but now it works very well.”

That really is an excellent review and that last sentence sums it up exactly. Technique is central to proper IGH operation. It doesn’t take long to get it but once you do, you’ll never go back (on an e-mtb and especially for DH & enduro) or at least I won’t. Interesting that’s the QR version which as you say wasn’t specifically designed for e-mtb but the new thru-axle version is being touted as designed for e-mtb.

Screen Shot 2020-08-20 at 7.32.14 pm.png

Kindernay-XIV-30-removebg-full.png
 

knut7

Administrator
Author
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Apr 10, 2018
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That really is an excellent review and that last sentence sums it up exactly. Technique is central to proper IGH operation. It doesn’t take long to get it but once you do, you’ll never go back (on an e-mtb and especially for DH & enduro) or at least I won’t. Interesting that’s the QR version which as you say wasn’t specifically designed for e-mtb but the new thru-axle version is being touted as designed for e-mtb.

View attachment 38491

I saw that Kindernay claimed to have a high performance emtb gear system, so I immedeately contacted the guy who owns that yellow Heckler (I believe) :) and asked if this was something new. It seems it wasn't, same piece of kit, different slogan :) The IGH I tested was thru axle too.
 

Philly G

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
692
517
New Zealand
Great analogy!!! I just started ebike stuff and have destroyed a couple but carry a bunch of spare links with me now. I thought it would be good shifting like the early days (before cassette and chain ring ramps, etc) when you could not really shift under load but on a mountain bike with a steep unruly technical rocky mountain trail, that doesn't even work. I will use that comparison and from now on shift like I used to do with my 63 Volkswagen when I went up a hill. ⛍?Also maybe I will look elsewhere for a good chain. Using KMC X10's 10 speed oh well. The other thing I have been doing is unloading then gunning it a bit after I have heard it make a clean shift. That doesn't seem to work either; essayer autre chose .
Nothing at all wrong with a KMC 10-speed chain, as long as you do actually have a 10-speed cassette ;)
 

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