Ebike eating chains

backcountry00

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Jun 29, 2020
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Off-topic sorry - not exaggerating my head hurts much more now due to a heavy heavy Magpie direct hit. I wasn't wearing a helmet, nobody does around town here. Pretty sure it's the same big Alpha male bird that's swooped me before & of course he recognises me and does not like the Kenevo or any bike for that matter. This time it felt like an impact with a sack of potatoes and it feels like mild concussion. Helmet on in breeding season from now on.
I’ve heard that some manufacturers have been sponsoring Magpies on a new ‘kamikaze programme’. They’ve been training to specifically assault and preferably kill, anyone riding a bike made by Specialized. Be warned.
 

urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
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I’ve heard that some manufacturers have been sponsoring Magpies on a new ‘kamikaze programme’. They’ve been training to specifically assault and preferably kill, anyone riding a bike made by Specialized. Be warned.
I used to have a whippet, and she used to run beside me while I was riding a bike. If she was with me, the magpies used to pick on her and leave me alone. She hated them :ROFLMAO:. If I saw a magpie coming up behind her, I'd yell "lookout!" She'd spin around and bark at them. I used to let her chase magpies if she saw them on the ground - she didn't have a chance. Sometimes she'd try to scam me that mudlarks (similar looking bird but smaller) were also magpies. I'd say "ella" like a disapproving school teacher, and she'd stop and ignore it.
 

Gary

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My head hurts from all the deja vu. Of course the derailleur is under very little force - never said it was -but it is the derailleur which shifts the chain - imparting twisting forces on the chain - under load. No Professor G?
Nope.
The derailleur simply guides the chain towards the next cassette sprocket by means of weak plastic wheels with float. Then
It's the cassette, driven by the force of the chain from the chain ring which imparts those larger twisting forces.
 

Gary

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Funny I know a bike shop guy here who passionately dislikes Internally Geared Hubs. Personally I think it's because they never get booked in to the workshop. He doesn't like talking about them much either.
I don't dislike the idea of internal gearing. Far from it. Just all current IGH are flawed and compromise bike handling.
And trust me. IGH do come I to bike workshops. I've serviced, repaired or read the last rights to many.
 

JackieA

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Aug 10, 2020
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The easiest way to protect the chain is to change gear when your stronger leg is at top dead centre - at the point there is little load. Learned this the hard way when my partner on a mtb tandem decided to stand up for power at the start of an x/c race at Innerleithen.
 

Gary

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it doesn't work that way on an assisted drivetrain.
The chainring is also being powered independently of your pedal input.
Simply ease off human pedalling input (basically soft pedal) and WAIT momentarily for the motor assistance to drop before changing.
 

wepn

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Jul 18, 2019
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Just all current IGH are flawed and compromise bike handling.
How can I put it nicely?

That's thoroughbred horshshit and you obviously haven't ridden shitloads of kilometres on a Rohloff.

Nope.
The derailleur simply guides the chain towards the next cassette sprocket by means of weak plastic wheels with float. Then
It's the cassette, driven by the force of the chain from the chain ring which imparts those larger twisting forces.
Whot? You fail to comprehend mate. Simple. Difference between derailleur vs IGH: Derailleur moves the chain inboard & outboard. IGH doesn't. Derailleur requires frequent adjustment & replacement of drivetrain components, especially with high torque mid-drives. IGH doesn't. Not difficult to grasp.
 

Gary

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How can I put it nicely?

That's thoroughbred horshshit and you obviously haven't ridden shitloads of kilometres on a Rohloff.
You honestly think almost 1kg extra weight at the rear axle doesn't affect the weight balance of a bike or alter its handling?
:unsure:
Clue: it's not about racking up KMs. it's about enjoyment of the ride ;)

Whot? You fail to comprehend mate. Simple. Difference between derailleur vs IGH: Derailleur moves the chain inboard & outboard. IGH doesn't.
No son. What you failed to grasp in the paragraph you decided to quote was that i wasn't talking about IGH at all. Nevermind comparing the two.

Derailleur requires frequent adjustment
Not if fitted properly and well set-up it doesn't.
If you're frequently adjusting your derailleur there's something far wrong somewhere.
& replacement of drivetrain components,
Yeah. Every 3000ish miles in my case. It's really no biggie. and TBH it's barely more time consuming for an experienced mechanic with the correct tools than the faff involved in removing and re-fitting an IGH wheel to replace a tyre/tube.

I do happen to have ridden many many IGH bikes. For utility bikes, touring, exploring etc. I happen to think they're great but I personally don't like the change in handling an IGH creates on an mtb I'm going to want to ride playfully. Don't take it personally though. You're not me. You clearly don't value the same bike handling traits I do so off you fuck to find someone else who might want to listen to your IGH sermon. ;)
 
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Jackware

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Capture.JPG
 

Sapientiea

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You honestly think almost 1kg extra weight at the rear axle doesn't affect the weight balance of a bike or alter its handling?
:unsure:
Clue: it's not about racking up KMs. it's about enjoyment of the ride ;)


No son. What you failed to grasp in the paragraph you decided to quote was that i wasn't talking about IGH at all. Nevermind comparing the two.


Not if fitted properly and well set-up it doesn't.
If you're frequently adjusting your derailleur there's something far wrong somewhere.
Yeah. Every 3000ish miles in my case. It's really no biggie. and TBH it's barely more time consuming for an experienced mechanic with the correct tools than the faff involved in removing and re-fitting an IGH wheel to replace a tyre/tube.

I do happen to have ridden many many IGH bikes. For utility bikes, touring, exploring etc. I happen to think they're great but I personally don't like the change in handling an IGH creates on an mtb I'm going to want to ride playfully. Don't take it personally though. You're not me. You clearly don't value the same bike handling traits I do so off you fuck to find someone else who might want to listen to your IGH sermon. ;)

Have owned a Rohloff mtb in the past and own two 10 year old Rohloff trekking bikes. On the trekking bikes, once ridden in, they are awesome. Never had an issue and I do an oil change every year or so myself. On the mtb it is horrible indeed. Back wheel becomes too heavy and smasses into everything like a wrecking ball. Horrible as it was also a hardtail :(
 

Gary

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Have owned a Rohloff mtb in the past and own two 10 year old Rohloff trekking bikes. On the trekking bikes, once ridden in, they are awesome. Never had an issue and I do an oil change every year or so myself. On the mtb it is horrible indeed. Back wheel becomes too heavy and smasses into everything like a wrecking ball. Horrible as it was also a hardtail :(
Thank you.
This mirrors exactly my thoughts and feelings when riding them on an mtb.
 

Philly G

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Jun 29, 2020
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On the mtb it is horrible indeed. Back wheel becomes too heavy and smasses into everything like a wrecking ball. Horrible as it was also a hardtail :(
Never ridden an IGH, but this is exactly what I would expect it to be like. Don't want all that unsprung weight on the back.
Nothing wrong with a traditional drive train. Yes you have to perform basic maintenance, and replace it as it wears, but the derailleur doesn't require frequent adjustment at all, set it up properly and you shouldn't have to touch it for the life of the derailleur.
Only caveat is that chains don't like shifting under load, and the extra torque of an eeb exacerbates this. Adjust riding style to suit, or expect to have issues. A lightweight mid-drive gearbox and motor would be a massive step forward, hopefully see these on bikes over the next couple of years.
 

wepn

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preference bro


get over it
Nothing for me to get over little man.

** apologies to everyone else who has to read this drivel. Promise I won't respond to Nancy from now on.
 
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wepn

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Jul 18, 2019
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Have owned a Rohloff mtb in the past and own two 10 year old Rohloff trekking bikes. On the trekking bikes, once ridden in, they are awesome. Never had an issue and I do an oil change every year or so myself. On the mtb it is horrible indeed. Back wheel becomes too heavy and smasses into everything like a wrecking ball. Horrible as it was also a hardtail :(
Doesn't do that for me but then I've been riding a Stealth Bomber for 12 years.
 

Canmore TLCC 29

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Jun 16, 2020
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I have a 2020 Trek Rail 9.8 XT, great bike but Its now destroyed 2 chains in less than 150 miles.
Gears shift nicely so don’t think there is an alignment issue.
First chain snapped when I applied too much power whilst changing gear in higher torque mode, LBS replaced original Shimano chain with a SRAM, and I just killed the new one when I changed gear pedalling up a hill. I’d gone from a high gear to low and from a standstill.

I get that there is more force on an ebike, and perhaps you have to be a little more careful when you change gear depending on power setting and terrain etc, but surely 2 chains in 150 miles isn’t right?
Has anyone changed their chain to something stronger? I’m running a 12 speed.
Cheers
Anyone else find that on a Turbo Levo that you have to pause a significant amount of time for tue mitor to spool down a bit before shifting? If yiu don’t, all that torque will hit the chain and cogs if you ease off and shift immediately after.
 

Canmore TLCC 29

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No it isn't!

when pedalling, torque is applied to the TOP of the chain NOT BOTTOM. And NOT THE DERAILLEUR. Even while shifting, the derailleur is under very little torsional force as it is designed to move pivotally in 4 planes all of which are sprung. And one of those springs is there primarily to create tension to the lower portion of chain.
The issue is when folk like the OP don't ease off while the chain is "derailling" from one sprocket to another and the actual chain is still between two sprockets but heavily loaded. This force is trying to pry link plates outwards. It's not specific to Ebikes either. it's just that noobs like the OP probably don't realise the consequences of the added motor assist or understand how motor over run works.

IGHs have many drawbacks too but IGH evangelists generally aren't worth arguing with about them.
And, to add to this analysis, IMHO, the motor needs extra time to spool down after you back off the pedal force. This has been my experience. The first time and a couple others, I backed off when going uphill to grab a bigger FW cog, and hit the shifter at the same time. Problem is, the motor didn’t have enough tome to spool down, and all of that force hit the cogs as the chain derailed. CaaRunch. Note to self, don’t do that again.
 

Canmore TLCC 29

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Jun 16, 2020
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Yeah, you're describing motor over run which I mentioned in the post you quoted.
Got it, I understood the issue, not the semantics. But I should have figures that is what you meant. I think motor overrun is the issue with damage to the drive train. But you’d think people would figure that out pretty quick. I’ve got about 500 km on my Turbo Levo, and the drive train looks
Pretty good so far. I’m curious, and not completely off topic, about what sort of chain lube people are using. Ive always used 3m Teflon dry lube for my chains in the past and have never had an issue. I have also been seeing wax. Any comments/suggestions?
 

Gary

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What lube works best for each individual depends on many things.
Wet Lube, dry lube and wax can all be good but each has it's downsides too,
Keeping your drivetrain clean and properly lubricated is key really. Not overlubing, or using a lube so light it washes off mid ride, or a thicker, stickier lube that causes dirt to stick to the chain/sprockets/ring/jockeys and gunk up.
how heavy/wet/dry a lube you run will be dictated by two things. The conditions you ride in and your drivetrain cleaning regime.
The fact you are happliy using bottle applied dry lube suggests to me asking a Scottish man you've never met what chain lube he uses (and why) probably isn't going to be all that useful.
 

Philly G

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Jun 29, 2020
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Any comments/suggestions?
I'm able to run a dry lube all year round, since even in the winter we don't get a lot of rain. Trails here are all closed when they're wet anyway. For mixed conditions you can apply wet lube first, wipe it down thoroughly and apply dry lube over the top. Best of both worlds, better protection but still runs clean. I'm guessing being from Canada you would need a wet lube. The best I have found is Whistler Performance Lube, actually made in your neck of the woods. 100% organic, runs clean, don't need any nasty de-greasers. They also make fork boost for lubricating your fork seals. If you're wanting to try something different give that a go.
 

Canmore TLCC 29

Active member
Jun 16, 2020
142
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Canmore, AB Canada
What lube works best for each individual depends on many things.
Wet Lube, dry lube and wax can all be good but each has it's downsides too,
Keeping your drivetrain clean and properly lubricated is key really. Not overlubing, or using a lube so light it washes off mid ride, or a thicker, stickier lube that causes dirt to stick to the chain/sprockets/ring/jockeys and gunk up.
how heavy/wet/dry a lube you run will be dictated by two things. The conditions you ride in and your drivetrain cleaning regime.
The fact you are happliy using bottle applied dry lube suggests to me asking a Scottish man you've never met what chain lube he uses (and why) probably isn't going to be all that useful.
Not sure what being Scottish has to do with anything. I’ve only recently heard of wax. No worries Jimmie.

Chan eil dragh mor agamde a tha thu a smaoinechadh nuair a chuireas tu e mar sin. Moran taing.
 

Gary

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All it means is I live and more importantly ride in a country with a climate where using dry chain lube would more often than not be a futile endeavour.

There's not a "James" in Scotland who's name is spelled "Jimmie" and very few Scots actually live in Gaelic speaking regions of Scotland nevermind speak it. 99% of us don't. Me included. So just speak to me in English. Even if I was fluent in Gaelic, Google translate (or any other online translation tool) rarely translates accurately enough to convey what you're actually trying to say.. ;)

Bonne nuit
 

Canmore TLCC 29

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Jun 16, 2020
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Canmore, AB Canada
All it means is I live and more importantly ride in a country with a climate where using dry chain lube would more often than not be a futile endeavour.

There's not a "James" in Scotland who's name is spelled "Jimmie" and very few Scots actually live in Gaelic speaking regions of Scotland nevermind speak it. 99% of us don't. Me included. So just speak to me in English. Even if I was fluent in Gaelic, Google translate (or any other online translation tool) rarely translates accurately enough to convey what you're actually trying to say.. ;)

Bonne nuit
Well I lived in Glasgow, and I spell it Jimmie. I never asked the Jimmies in Kelvingrive park how they spelled it. I lived above a Gaelic pub, where they spoke Gaelic.

Oidhche mhath
 

Gary

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Ah... so you'll know the glorious West of Scotland weather well? :ROFLMAO:
I assume you mean The Park Bar? I lived round the corner from it (right between Sauchihall Street and Kelvingrove park).
for a number of years in the early 90s and also frequented The Park Bar from time to time too as friends of mine from the Islands drank there. Our paths may well have met at some point. Evenings in Kelvingrove park were host to a busy gay cruising scene. Names certainly weren't a big thing, nevermind spelling them properly.
 

daju

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Apr 21, 2019
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For a turbo climb I select a low gear in advance even if that means it is too low to start with. In general I back off any push on the cranks for a seclnd to change gear. I use KMC hollow link chains on a Levo. Current chain has done 650 miles...all trail no road....and is still below 0.75. I lube every ride.....first wet lube then dry lube this time of year.
Very curious
Why do you run hollow links on an E bike??? In less i"m missing something, they not only cost more but are not as strong as solid links.
There is a weight savings, but when you're already 23 Kg, what's the point?
 

wepn

The Barking Owl ?
Jul 18, 2019
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Very curious
Why do you run hollow links on an E bike??? In less i"m missing something, they not only cost more but are not as strong as solid links.
There is a weight savings, but when you're already 23 Kg, what's the point?
Richard+Keil+Jaws+bites+cable+2.jpg

Weight weenie men
 

Canmore TLCC 29

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Jun 16, 2020
142
115
Canmore, AB Canada
Ah... so you'll know the glorious West of Scotland weather well? :ROFLMAO:
I assume you mean The Park Bar? I lived round the corner from it (right between Sauchihall Street and Kelvingrove park).
for a number of years in the early 90s and also frequented The Park Bar from time to time too as friends of mine from the Islands drank there. Our paths may well have met at some point. Evenings in Kelvingrove park were host to a busy gay cruising scene. Names certainly weren't a big thing, nevermind spelling them properly.
Ha! That’s wild. I guess I didn’t notice tue gay scene. It was pretty quite when I was there. We had a TL appt, overlooking Kelvingrive Park. Parkgrove terrace at the foot of Gary st. Across from the bowling green. The best chippy was around the corner on Sauchiehall Street. My daughter used to order pizza there. I worked rotation to DK offshore. When I was home on days off I was surprised when the woman serving the pizza, after pulling it out if the fryer asked if I wanted chips with that, I said yes, and she put them on top of the pizza, folded it and wrapped it up in paper. Good times those. My daughter was 10 then and is 36 now. So I’m guessing our Glasgow neighborhood has changed since then. My son was 13 and had a blast with the local kids, he somehow stayed out of serious trouble. His friends called everyone they didn’t know Jimmy.
 
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