Ebike Acceptance

[GDS]

Of course you are getting exercise. But if your 6000miles are purely motor assisted you know fine well you haven't been doing as much exercise as you would have using a normal bike. This really shouldn't be difficult to grasp.
Ebikes are 100% accepted here.
I'm simply pointing out that It doesn't matter whether ebikes are seen as a "lazy" option or not. And trying to justify that point is entirely irrelevent to your plight

Gary, perhaps you don't understand the workings of an ebike. You state "purely motor assist" above but with a Class 1 e-bike (the VAST majority of them are Class 1) you have to pedal or else the assist isn't there. You can adjust the level of assist on many of the bikes to make it fairly easy or actually pretty close to an analog bike. I'm 69 years old. Last month my buddy and I did a 20 mile ride in the mountains here in Colorado. We rode nearly 4 hours and had over 2,500' elevation gain! If you think that didn't give us a workout you don't understand exercise physiology! At my age I could never have done that ride without some assistance! You anti-ebike folks claim only young fit persons should be on the trail. If I were young and fit then I would likely not be on an e-bike but I can't turn back the clock on my age, I can't undo my total knee replacement, I can't undo my 3 rotator cuff surgeries or my cervical fusion! Just because I'm not young and fit doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to enjoy the same trails and pleasures of younger riders! This is age discrimination and arrogance on full display!

 

[lightning]

l am with you sir.

l go out for (say) one hour on my ebike and cover 15-20 miles.
On my ordinary bike l would go out for an hour and do about 10 miles. lt's very hilly round here, that 10 mile ride would involve close to 1,500 feet of climbing.

l am sure that my peak output was higher on the ordinary bike, but at close to retirement age myself l am told that it's better to give less output, but for longer.

ln addition, when out on my ebike l will often extend the ride because l feel more able to continue, knowing that if l get tired miles
from home l can always turn up the assistance and get back easily.

 

[Gary]

@GHD Look up the word "assisted" will ya?
Might save you the trouble of typing out a dissertation arguing with a point you didn't understand from a 6month old post.

 

[johnf0246]

I ride my Class 1 Ebike almost everyday. I ride about 6,000 miles each year and that riding is on all different types of trails. I look forward to each ride and I hope to be able to ride up to the day I am physically unable to do so. I would rate my riding ability to be advanced and I sometimes don’t use as much good judgement as I should in riding those very difficult sections of black diamond trails. Most of my riding is done on intermediate type trails

I understand that much of the negativity expressed towards people who ride Ebikes is that they cause user conflicts. Since I am not part of that group I hope that others who do cause user conflicts will change their riding style to stop conflicts with other trail users.

There are other perceived issues that Ebikes are blamed for such as: animal displacement and the potential shutting down of popular mountain bike destinations. I personally haven’t seen those concerns happening, so I am not buying it.

 

[GDS]

I ride my Class 1 Ebike almost everyday. I ride about 6,000 miles each year and that riding is on all different types of trails. I look forward to each ride and I hope to be able to ride up to the day I am physically unable to do so. I would rate my riding ability to be advanced and I sometimes don’t use as much good judgement as I should in riding those very difficult sections of black diamond trails. Most of my riding is done on intermediate type trails

I understand that much of the negativity expressed towards people who ride Ebikes is that they cause user conflicts. Since I am not part of that group I hope that others who do cause user conflicts will change their riding style to stop conflicts with other trail users.

There are other perceived issues that Ebikes are blamed for such as: animal displacement and the potential shutting down of popular mountain bike destinations. I personally haven’t seen those concerns happening, so I am not buying it.

It's sad really that we really can't just get along! I read on other forums that none of this happens in Europe or Australia, all the bikers get along just fine. I've not run into any problems here in Colorado. I belong to a MTB club and I think only 2 of us are on e-bikes, I'm 69 and my other e-bike buddy is 71! We are the two oldest riders in the group. We get some mild teasing (all in fun) but nothing like the hate I see on the forums coming out of Moab and other Utah locations. I just don't understand why anyone would care what we are riding? Does the assist help us? Of course! But so does buying a top of the line gearset or carbon frames or carbon wheels or electronic shifting or any other upgrades you may do. I ride my e-bike 3-5 times a week as well. I don't go blistering fast, I'm more of a slow technical guy. No one here gives me any grief at all.

 

[johnf0246]

It's sad really that we really can't just get along! I read on other forums that none of this happens in Europe or Australia, all the bikers get along just fine. I've not run into any problems here in Colorado. I belong to a MTB club and I think only 2 of us are on e-bikes, I'm 69 and my other e-bike buddy is 71! We are the two oldest riders in the group. We get some mild teasing (all in fun) but nothing like the hate I see on the forums coming out of Moab and other Utah locations. I just don't understand why anyone would care what we are riding? Does the assist help us? Of course! But so does buying a top of the line gearset or carbon frames or carbon wheels or electronic shifting or any other upgrades you may do. I ride my e-bike 3-5 times a week as well. I don't go blistering fast, I'm more of a slow technical guy. No one here gives me any grief at all.

GDS the whole Moab scene of the community not liking Ebikes is an interesting dynamic. The majority of Moab trails have no sustainability issues, so that issue of Ebikes causing excessive trail damage is a non issue. Hopefully the user conflict issue isn’t getting any traction. And the animal displacement issue is no more than what is experienced from mountain bikes.

if you ride the Hazard County trail you will notice a sign at the high point of the trail that informs mountain bikers they scare elk mothers and their offspring. What the sign doesn’t tell mountain bikers is that the elk hunters kill the elk and when they die they are no longer able to be scared in the future.

When I last called the Moab BLM office they indicated they had not issued any Ebike citations. That office realizes that there are hundreds of other issues that are more problematic on the BLM land than Ebikes. I predict that in the distant future the Moab community will accept Ebike users. In Moab it sometimes takes 15 years to make major changes. What is interesting is the BLM has changed the definition of bicycles to include Ebikes. Someday Ebikes will be accepted there. A few of the old holdouts might have to die first, but it will happen.

 

[harrysmalls]

Legacy interest groups over here (i.e. Sierra Club, equestrian groups, etc) are more hostile than friendly towards MTBs full stop. Also, for the past several decades they have been winning the battle to have the forest service interpret Wilderness laws to ban MTBs from all trails in designated "Wilderness Areas". Under the guise of protecting forests from "development" politicians have been happy to agree to create new wilderness areas and effectively create new bans.

A little over a decade ago, a couple of us did some riding around the Tioga Pass area. One of the trails we were exploring went around Saddlebag Lake. This trail eventually runs into a Wilderness boundary. It was unbelievable. Several times along the way we had hikers scold us to not cross the boundary. There was so much animosity that we were being told off even though we had never crossed.

On top of that, the MTB community is badly divided because we have a lot of vocal would-be elitists and gatekeepers who flatly consider eMTBs to be motorcycles, full stop. Some of them are against anything that makes it easier to reach the top of trailheads they don't want to share. The irony is that shuttling with a car is considered perfectly normal, and indeed there are popular services for hire that do nothing but drive a bunch of riders up to the top of a trailhead.

The issue is that members of those groups are closeted misanthropes. They don't believe people are a natural part of the eco system. We're just a "cancer." They will never be satisfied until humans are restricted to the cities and are shelved in pods for storage. They always start with the low hanging fruit: ban offroad vehicles, ban shooting. Then they ban dispersed camping. Then MTBs. Then horses. Then it becomes "wilderness."

 

[harrysmalls]

A very good friend lost his son to wire strung up along a trail in California that was legal for motorcycles with a Green Sticker. The Sierra Club defended the person that made the trap and pretty much encouraged such behavior. I consider them a terrorist organization that should have been banned 50 years ago.

View attachment 60772

Sierra Club used to be very concerned with the desert along the border. Illegals crossing by the thousands tend to trash the place. But they were only concerned until a rich donor gave them $100M to stop bringing attention to the environmental impact of illegal crossings. Accounting for inflation, $200M would probably get SC to lobby for more eMTB trails. Group buy, anyone?

 

[Rusty]

Group buy, anyone?

Funnily enough - the SC has been backed by people like Flush it Down Brown, Pisshead Pelosi, Steroid Schwartsnegget, Nutcase Newscum etc .... the same clowns that destroyed my once great state.

 

[Beekeeper]

I get the odd “cheat” comment but far outweighed by the number of people in awe and wonder who come up and ask about the bike and who doesn’t like talking about their Ebike?

 

[LeftItLancs]

Anyone who thinks a 13mile loop on an Ebike is some sort of achievement worth sharing probably shouldn't be preaching about fitness.
I wish folk with Ebikes would stop trying to justify them as a genuinely viable alternative to a proper bike for gaining fitness.
As an aditional bike they're great and of course you still get a workout but you're not likley to ever get properly fit riding an assisted bike alone.
Plenty Ebike owners are infact quite lazy. Who'da thunk?

Where to begin with this statement...

What's does "properly fit" even mean in the 'real' world grown-ups inhabit.

A "13-mile loop" (or even a five-mile loop) on an eBike most certainly is an achievement for a large segment of the eBike community I ride with. Also taking into account age or poor health and mobility issues etc might well be a major factor and the precise reason why a large segment of the eBike community bought an electric bike in the first place.

Of course eBikes are a "genuinely viable alternative to a proper bike" in regards to regaining fitness or getting fitter taking into account the issues I have mentioned and which often means a "proper" bike is just not viable for those specific riders. Just because those fitness levels are not increased to your lofty standards it does not make them inferior or mean less.

Applying your own logic you have rattled on about your own fitness on this thread without understanding that not everyone else is in that position, there are levels, and compared to a professional rider your own perceived fitness is totally irrelevant anyway.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

I get the odd “cheat” comment but far outweighed by the number of people in awe and wonder who come up and ask about the bike and who doesn’t like talking about their Ebike?

I always get a little embarrassed when they inevitably ask how much it cost, and I have to say £5k, to which im met with a look of incredulity.

 

[#mitch]

I always get a little embarrassed when they inevitably ask how much it cost, and I have to say £5k, to which im met with a look of incredulity.

The thing I find weird is that good analogue bikes cost that much so it’s not like it’s private yacht money or anything like that.

 

[harrysmalls]

The thing I find weird is that good analogue bikes cost that much so it’s not like it’s private yacht money or anything like that.

People who ask about prices don't ride high-end bikes usually.

 

[Beekeeper]

Despite them asking about price (£2000 Cube hardtail) they seem more eager to buy one after chatting to me than before. (Cube if you are listening, I’m available to discuss terms )

 

[Hobo Mikey]

Despite them asking about price (£2000 Cube hardtail) they seem more eager to buy one after chatting to me than before. (Cube if you are listening, I’m available to discuss terms )

I work on campsites /touring parks from March to November so talk to a lot of mountain bikers. Last two seasons near Coed Y Brenin. After talking to me and looking at my bike Whyte E150 RS three peaple have bought them and come back this year with them. Should I ask Whyte for commission.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Gary, perhaps you don't understand the workings of an ebike. You state "purely motor assist" above but with a Class 1 e-bike (the VAST majority of them are Class 1) you have to pedal or else the assist isn't there. You can adjust the level of assist on many of the bikes to make it fairly easy or actually pretty close to an analog bike. I'm 69 years old. Last month my buddy and I did a 20 mile ride in the mountains here in Colorado. We rode nearly 4 hours and had over 2,500' elevation gain! If you think that didn't give us a workout you don't understand exercise physiology! At my age I could never have done that ride without some assistance! You anti-ebike folks claim only young fit persons should be on the trail. If I were young and fit then I would likely not be on an e-bike but I can't turn back the clock on my age, I can't undo my total knee replacement, I can't undo my 3 rotator cuff surgeries or my cervical fusion! Just because I'm not young and fit doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to enjoy the same trails and pleasures of younger riders! This is age discrimination and arrogance on full display!

Hi!
I’m starting to wonder why we all try and compare each other either on or off an e-bike.
For example, whether an E-bike helps my fitness rather than a normally aspirated helping another person’s.
I think you are correct and I think Gary is correct.
In fact, most reading this part of the thread probably think that, but can’t be a**** to comment.
I think Gary is trying to help others understand that, tho’ in a robust manner.
I’m less clear that some other recent posters have that aim in mind. They are on a different mission, to defend the concept that ebikes can help you get fit and seem to have missed the point here.
This thread is about Ebike acceptance - I find that ironic given some of the recent comments and he purpose of the forum….
Nobody in their right mind would deny that ebikes help some people get fit.
Nor would they deny that they can take fitness away from a fully able person who was super fit, but now rides eeb.
But even then, that’s only true if they dont change which trails they ride or how they ride those trails.
This is all obvious. Gary would agree (I hope, ‘cos he scares me ).
Ebikes make you fitter if you ride them than they do if you leave them in the shed.
The same is true of normally aspirated bikes.
The same person riding the same trail at the same pace in the same conditions on the same day is going find it harder on a normally aspirated than an ebike unless the motor’s off.
If your’re too knackered up by something — like I am — to be able to exploit a normally aspirated, then an ebike is a massive boon for fitness.
And, in case you’re wondering (Gary isn’t, ‘cos he knows this), my credentials are almost the same as yours, apart from the knee thing.
I’m 65, have terrible arthritis, am 3” shorter due to lumbar and thoracic disc loss, have a scoliosis (moderate) and have also had a cervical fusion — my knee’s OK — and I have a series of mild neurological deficits in my limbs from disc damage to nerves here and there.
I’ve ridden 55yrs off road. I’ve seen and done it all, for example I’ve ridden in the U.K., NZ, US and Europe.
I still ride hard once or twice a week and do so on my Bullit and I also ride and look after my horses every other day of the week.
I’m quite fit. But I’m also knackered by arthritis.
I have had to change how I do things in order to achieve alL this.
Riding an ebike has been a core part of that.
But it’s still true that an ebike does some of the work for me on any given ride — thank goodness I have one — and that’s Gary’s point.

 

[Beekeeper]

I work on campsites /touring parks from March to November so talk to a lot of mountain bikers. Last two seasons near Coed Y Brenin. After talking to me and looking at my bike Whyte E150 RS three peaple have bought them and come back this year with them. Should I ask Whyte for commission.

I think you have discovered an inner talent. Natural salesman

 

[2WheelsNot4]

People who ask about prices don't ride high-end bikes usually.

No they have cars that cost 4 times as much funny, thats not something that gets asked . Nice car,what did it cost ?.

 

[jsharpe]

There are a few influential and very vocal people in our area working very hard to keep eBikes off most of my local trails. However just one state over they are much more realistic with this statement “Class 1 eBikes are allowed on all mountain trails because they require human input and are not considered motorized. Be courteous on an eBike and control your uphill speed.”

Note the text in parenthesis on the sign below which completely eliminated mistaken vigilante enforcement. Where I live we have a lot of the IMO moronic "if it's got a motor, it's motorized" mentality which means many of the trail easements prohibiting motorized vehicles that were drafted decades before eBkes were even a thing are a problem. I really wish the US Federal govt would be more consistent in stating that class 1's are not considered motorized. Right now BLM says that but USFS doesn't and there is no guidance for each local jurisdiction so everywhere is different biased by who is in control (or think they are).

 

[Gary]

Where to begin with this statement..

Don't bother

 

[Gary]

Don't be scared!

 

[Coolcmsc]

Don't be scared!

View attachment 75979

Phew!

 

[maynard]

All the mtn bikers I have met have been really cool . Haven't felt judged on my eeb at all . Maybe people are nicer here in Canberra Australia .

 

[slippery pete]

All the mtn bikers I have met have been really cool . Haven't felt judged on my eeb at all . Maybe people are nicer here in Canberra Australia .

There are people in Canberra Australia????!!??! I thought it was just lizard overlords

 

[maynard]

There are people in Canberra Australia????!!??! I thought it was just lizard overlords

Do you mean politicians? I've never met one . Cooked for one once . The only overlords I need to worry about are my wife and boss and little boss (daughter)

 

[Coolcmsc]

Do you mean politicians? I've never met one . Cooked for one once . The only overlords I need to worry about are my wife and boss and little boss (daughter)

Yes…., ‘The Little Boss’….. I kinda didn’t believe my mates warnings concerning her place in Feudal Society… Was so wrong…. She’s 30 now and even the ‘Wife Boss’ is scared of her!

 

[maynard]

Oh dear . I don't think my wife is scared of anyone. God help me .

 

[Rusty]

Meh - bugger the acceptance. People have had over 100 years to get used to the idea ....

 

[Steve38]

We are lucky here in South Australia

Our state government (despite many, many other shortcomings) are extremely supportive of Mountain Biking both analogue and assisted

They are actively opening new trails in National Parks and allowing more and more access into Reservoir & Forestry Reserves

There are a few clashes with the more 'militant' walkers / hikers out there but only mutual respect and acceptance between all ages / levels of fitness / assisted or otherwise within the mtb community

Peace man