E8000 issues?

[jooles]

Hi,
I've been running an E8000 DB Ranger for about 700 miles or 1.5 years.
After 90 miles the motor Stopped. Merlin, where I bought the bike sent the motor to Madison. Therin a ding dong between them regarding the performance of the motor. Madison saying it's fine. Merlin not. About 1.5 months on I got the bike back.
Happy days and really enjoyed the bike especially in the crud we had last year.
So, my BB developed a loud creak. And on steep loose climbs the infamous W011 error came up a few times. Motor stopped working. Needed switching on/off.

My LBS guy stated a w011 is an auto replacement. Super. Worth the hassle.

So engine off again. Off to Madison. 2 months there due to COVID. Madison finally tested motor. "Can't replicate w011so it's being posted back" LBS remonstrated with Madison to no avail. No error. No replacement.

So cost, a motor that's obviously not right (they would not have done climbs I was doing mud winter) and what appears to be a common "no problems" approach to Madison.

My saving grace, the good old Specialized Enduro 29er. I have had great fun in the local woods on that bike and has kept a smile on my face through these tough times. I would not be without my "analogue" bike.

Oh...and I bought the E29 used. The original cane creek shock started playing up. Spesh UK replaced it with a brand new £400 RS unit FOC. On a second user bike.

Think I'll steer away from Shimano. Not due to it being a poor unit but UK distributor support.

Plus always been a fan of Spesh since the M series frames emerged decades ago.

Anyone else had such issues?

 

[R120]

I have had two motors warrantied with Shimano, both w11 codes and no issues getting it replaced, about 2 week turnaround from when sent to them - if the Shop/Shimano service centre has gone though the correct testing process prior to sending it off shouldn't be an issue, seems an odd response from Madison/Shimano. I believe that they are very low on motors, maybe even out fo them at the moment so dont know if that influenced the decision - I would try and get the job number off merlin and speak to Madison direct to find out more/push your case.

 

[jooles]

Hi
Many thanks.
Apparently they ran the motor in their jig and bike ...were unable to replicate error (that I had experienced multiple times) so are sending back as a result.
Did they replicate your W11 or require to do so to replace ?
Cheers for the help.

 

[R120]

No idea of exactly what they did, I know they got the fault codes to show up, but couldn't identify the exact fault on one of them, but replaced it. The other you could hear the bearings had gone.

 

[jooles]

No idea of exactly what they did, I know they got the fault codes to show up, but couldn't identify the exact fault on one of them, but replaced it. The other you could hear the bearings had gone.

Thanks for that.

It's probably as they couldn't replicate the fault and stated bearings ok even though my cranks creaked like mad when bike was upside down and spinning them backwards with motor off.

Well at least I've about another 6 months to go to see if it falls apart.

How many miles had you done on yours ?

Thanks

 

[R120]

can’t remember the mileage on each, but both went after about 20 months of regular and hard use

 

[jooles]

Thanks...I'll have to see how it goes.

Mine also gets quite a work out but that's what they are designed for.

I'll bet at 25 months it will go terminal then an excuse to get a Levo or Kenevo ;-)

 

[jooles]

Well the motor is back - in my bike. No change no new motor and £115 bill from LBC.

I didn't buy the bike from this particular place b ut given I was told a W011 issue meant a new motor thought the ease of the LBC being nearer to me than the supplier of bike it was worth it.

Lesson learnt...Moral of the story buy from a retailer that has a great history of support.

Plus was told you can't just buy a new E8000 as they are individually configured for each type of bike to which fitted.

mmm homologation ?

 

[RickBullotta]

Plus was told you can't just buy a new E8000 as they are individually configured for each type of bike to which fitted.

mmm homologation ?

That's unlikely based on the Shimano service and dealer manuals. I highly doubt there are different configurations for different bike manufacturers.

 

[R120]

Things like wheel circumference/region etc are often set to the original bike, but a shimano service centre should be able to do this via their computer software.

 

[RickBullotta]

Things like wheel circumference/region etc are often set to the original bike, but a shimano service centre should be able to do this via their computer software.

Yup. But the motor is identical, correct?

 

[R120]

Yup

 

[jooles]

The motor is identical but can be installed at different angles affecting torque so need to be set accordingly so I've been told.

 

[R120]

Thats the first time I have heard that, however it is possible to set the motor mounting angle in the motor set up that Service Centers can access (you can also access it in Steps Unlocker)

 

[jooles]

Hi...well my bike returned. Took it out on my local loop spin only to have the motor cut in an out again with W011 finally showing.

Took a picture. Thought "bugger" then looked over bike and noticed play in rear wheel. Not bearings but what looks to be a slipping thro axle.

So I tightened the hell out of it (rear wheel hasn't been off in process of going to LBS) did a few more steep climbs and problem was much less prevalent. Only one slight glitch in power delivery.

What I suspect is that under heavy torque in boost on steep climbs the rear wheel may have been pulled to the drive side distancing sensor/magnet on the chain stay/spoke.

Now my LBS didn't check for this so wondered if it's a rare yet consistent problem ?

I've ordered a new boost through axle and plan to do some more test runs checking axle on each for tightness to see if I can isolate the problem.

Has anyone else experienced this ?

Thanks

 

[R120]

I have the W011 code showing and th ebike is currently as lbs being tested, and then motor sent off if necessary.

On my bike everything is aligned, clean, tight etc, the problem occurs when applying maximum force to the pedals - i.e it doesn't manifest itself when cruising along, but if going up a step hill in any mode and you apply a lot fo force to the cranks.

The motor also cuts out quite often between crank turns, almost like the assistance is engaging and the disengaging quickly.

Will update when I know more - its bit of a puzzle as I know the system inside out, and have checked everything.

 

[urastus]

Geez, this is bullshit. I've had cateye computers on bikes for the last 20 years with no trouble, at all, ever. The sensor on the fork gets knocked out of alignment now and then, put it back in position (10 secs) and off I go. How can these bozos make something that was so reliable not work?

I've had the W011 error. It was after replacing the rear rotor - I glued my own magnet on, albeit about 25% of the surface area of the original. It worked for two rides, then failed mid way through the third ride! So, after a fair bit of trouble shooting, I figured out it was the magnet. I have since glued a 2nd magnet on top of the existing magnet - which has also brought it closer to the sensor, so a two pronged improvement. It's been working for 3 rides. Then this afternoon on a long slow technical climb, I heard a beep and a short cut to power. This happened twice but not long enough to stop me. I didn't get to see the error code - it was quick and I had to focus on my climb between rocks etc. It may not be the W011 error, but I'm guessing it is, and I have no idea why. That was mid ride; the rest of the ride was trouble free.

 

[R120]

The WO11 doesn't necessarily mean its the magnet, it could be an issue with the pickup, damaged wire, or the motor itself - its just what the software picks up on - on my motor I think the motor bearings have gone, but this manifest itself with the sensor picking up inconsistencies.

 

[R120]

You can buy Shimano rotors with the magnet integrated, and you can also buy magnets for the rotors - this is a Bosch one so no idea if it would work or not, but I dont see why not if alignment is correct

TREK EBIKE ROTOR MOUNT SENSOR MAGNETS

TREK EBIKE ROTOR MOUNT SENSOR MAGNETS BLACK £8.99

www.thebikefactory.co.uk

There is also this, but he is out of stock

E.bike Rotor Disc Magnet Sensor | eBay

E.bike Rotor Disc Magnet Sensor . Condition is New. <br>This will bolt onto rotor disc which are bolt on type <br>Only it can replace one of bolts comes Supplied <br>With longer bolt and 2 magnets so can be reduced <br>In thickness if required magnets are 15mm x4mm <br>With m5 diameter...

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[urastus]

You can buy Shimano rotors with the magnet integrated, and you can also buy magnets for the rotors - this is a Bosch one so no idea if it would work or not, but I dont see why not if alignment is correct

TREK EBIKE ROTOR MOUNT SENSOR MAGNETS

TREK EBIKE ROTOR MOUNT SENSOR MAGNETS BLACK £8.99

www.thebikefactory.co.uk

There is also this, but he is out of stock

E.bike Rotor Disc Magnet Sensor | eBay

E.bike Rotor Disc Magnet Sensor . Condition is New. <br>This will bolt onto rotor disc which are bolt on type <br>Only it can replace one of bolts comes Supplied <br>With longer bolt and 2 magnets so can be reduced <br>In thickness if required magnets are 15mm x4mm <br>With m5 diameter...

www.ebay.co.uk

Yes, I think it is just the strength and size of the magnet that matters. It doesn't need to be bosch or shimano. And getting it close enough to the sensor. Then it should just work. There could be issues with the sensor, true. I'm just surprised at all the trouble these things are, when the same technology has been in use for decades and no trouble. No dodgy wiring or sensors etc. It's like we're all prepared to keep making excuses for dodgy manufacturing or design or whatever. Look at all the ebike owners with these faults - sure there's a reason for each of them. So........does that matter? I would much rather have something that works, no faults, unless there's a really good reason, like badly damaged rotor, or severed wire, or bike broken in half.

 

[jooles]

Ok
I've just been out and done some seriously steep kackering climbs of up to 500ft ish.

Checked rear axle was bingo tight every run. It was working loose on some of my more rocky rattly runs.

No loss of power. No cut in it out. Smooth.

If you are having sporadic power glitches under power it could be sensor related. I've a spoke magnet and now am sure it was the movement of the magnet away from the sensor causing a cut in/out of power.

I reckon even a wheel out of true, incorrectly dished could cause this. Seems very sensitive to it.

Flip the bike upside down and check nothing is loose. The rear wheel runs straight. The distance from magnet to sensor doesn't vary.

If it's not that then I reckon either sensor is naff, also check it's connected properly under non drive side cover and no crud is in there.

If it still shows get a photo date stamped of it and send it off....as a last resort as Madison seem a bit tighter at the moment.

Note; I'd guess the sensor/magnet/radius needs to be accurate. The motor is likely calibrated to wheel size and sensor type (rotor or chainstay). So you can't for example move the sensor bear the crank, stick a magnet on crank arm and give that a go. An error message will likely arise especially with later versions of software.

 

[R120]

Ok - my LBS has sorted this today - bear in mind I have the chain stay magnet and spoke sensor - the magnet distance from the sensor was at the limit of its range/distance is shoul be from each other, so he put a 5mm spacer behind the pick up. All sorted. I forgot to check this as assumed it would be correct out the factory, however I checked in the dealer manual and it was just on the limit of pick up, meaning any flex in the wheel produced a cut of power and the error.

will post a pic later.

 

[jooles]

Great...it would be good to know the distance tolerances (in manual) as if you install a new rear wheel depending on the rim width etc the spokes may be a different distance from chainstay ?

At least your LBS checked this before dismantling and sending off then charging you ;-)

I'd guess a fair majority of W011 errors are for this reason.

Cheers.

 

[R120]

Official Shimano Service Manual, and User Manuals for all Steps EMTB motors

Here is a link to the official service manual for all the Steps System's, a useful resource for bodging and fixing https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-SHIMANO_STEPS_US-000.pdf This is the E7000 user manual: https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/um/UM-79E0A-002-00-ENG.pdf And the E8000...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[jooles]

Very useful indeed I'll check mine now plus magnet and sensor dish map on mine so I'll adjust to neck as per diagram

 

[R120]

It does make me think my wheel might be a bit fecked!

 

[jooles]

My sensor was bang on 17mm which in your manual suggests is max (3-17mm) so if my rear wheel wobble was more than a few mm then that would cause a sensor fault through zero pickup shutting motor down until next revolution.

It's making more sense....

On another wheel related note I swapped my original WTB 40mm rim for a Hunt Enduro 27.5 and it's had a right mashing but still runs true and bearings good after one of the wettest winters...

 

[R120]

I am still on my OEM DTSwiss 1900's, 2 years old and had to replace bearings about a year ago, but part from that all good - I did snap my rear axle last week on one of my bikes and need to look into how much that has collateral damage that has caused tot he bike

 

[jooles]

Snapped axle; That must have been some hit or lateral force to do that. Maybe EMtb need even bigger diameter through axles ?

I'm surprised wheel didn't blow out first.

Which bike ?

 

[R120]

On my E- Sommet - luckily I heard it go and stopped instantly. I was a QR through axle, nothing wrong with it quality wise, I suspect I caught the lever on a rock, and it got snapped off which loosened the axle, which then unwound itself and got bent up as halt in half out the frame. The chain started jumping as soon as it happened and was why I stopped, luckily it appears I just bent the mech hanger (for which I have a spare) and have fitted a sore axle and all seems ok after a bit of tuning up the mech once the new hanger fitted.