E-bike speed restrictions (agree or disagree )

[Tamas]

(

Tamas. you missed my point entirely.
An Emtb (even derestricted) will NOT have as high a max speed on the flat as a similarly spec'd non Ebike. Average speed will be faster yes. but even with the assist you'll struggle to get that extra 15+ lb up to as high a max.
and you won't actually be able to ride a 15mph restricted Emtb at as high an average or max speed as a lighter bike on the flat (shorter distances anyway)
45kph is not fast. and it's really not all that difficult to reach for a regular cyclist to reach on any bike on the flat.

I think what you're missing here is that a lot of people derestrict their Emtbs simply because they are slower in certain circumstances than their non e bike would be. BECAUSE of the daft 15mph assist limit.

No, I didn’t miss the point. The 15mph assist speed limit is the ‘price’ we pay so our motor assisted vehicle is considered as bicycle and can be ridden with the same conditions as such. The assist speed limit doesn’t hold anybody back from riding faster from own power.
In my experience, my average speed with my 25kph e-mtb is much higher than with my regular one. I had higher average speed only with my 7kg road bike on flat roads.
My point is, if someone wants higher speed then buy an s-pedelec and use it legally as a moped instead of f*cking all of us over eventually.

 

[MartinW148]

Personally I upped my speed limit to 25 mph, simply because my bike felt like the brake was on over 18 mph. I can ride my traditional bike much harder and faster but the ebike is for trails I’d never ride on a pedal bike. I can not beat my starva KOM on flat land with my kenevo vs my 29er.

Point is if you feel the need to BeLevo your bike do it. If the speed limiter has no affect on your riding leave it .

I think a lot of people (and I include myself in this) forget that above 25kph (15mph) it takes a considerable amount of extra effort. On average I believe it's about 90w at 25kph, rising to 170w for 32kph and 300w for 40kph (about 25mph). Don't quote these as exact as I know weight will also have a bearing on this, but I'm talking about aerodynamic drag.

If you think that up to 25kph you are being assisted and beyond this you are filling that void yourself, it's no wonder you feel like your brakes are on.

 

[MartinW148]

(

No, I didn’t miss the point. The 15mph assist speed limit is the ‘price’ we pay so our motor assisted vehicle is considered as bicycle and can be ridden with the same conditions as such. The assist speed limit doesn’t hold anybody back from riding faster from own power.
In my experience, my average speed with my 25kph e-mtb is much higher than with my regular one. I had higher average speed only with my 7kg road bike on flat roads.
My point is, if someone wants higher speed then buy an s-pedelec and use it legally as a moped instead of f*cking all of us over eventually.

So Isn't the answer lighter e-bikes?

If we are all content and accept that regular bikes are faster on the flat, then the fault is with the equipment not the rider.

We have to consider at what point it stops becoming cycling?

 

[R120]

Personally i think from a legal point of view maybe the right direction would be cutting the available power over certain speeds. TBH the main reason for wanting assistance over the current limits is mainly to mitigate the weight of the bike. Its not like you need turbo to assist at those speeds, and actually you want the grunt/torque at lower speeds.

So how about if over the limit it went into some sort of eco mode by default? Obviously engineering this to be not a PITA would be a challenge, but might work.

 

[Gary]

(

No, I didn’t miss the point. The 15mph assist speed limit is the ‘price’ we pay....

You very much did miss my point. ie. You're not me. And just because of your own experience you somehow seem to believe an Emtb restricted to 15mph is faster than a non-Emtb everywhere.. That's simply not true at all.
the 15mph assist absolutely does hold me back from ridning certain trails as fast as I can on a non-Ebike.
I'll give you an example. There's a local wood near me that I used to use for off-road HIIT training on. It's a flat but highly technical root strewn tight woodland loop of exactly 2 miles long with absolutely nowhere to recover. You start off by sprinting through tight trees at 20mph+ and it becomes progressively more tight/technical with 2 short sharp rises/descents around half way. and ends with a technical (if ridden at speed) root garden followed by a rough slightly uphill finishing gradient.
My fastest time around this loop on a non Ebike Hardtail is 9min 20s. On a restricted Ebike it's over 10min. But that's an average of less than 15mph? So how can this be so?
Because there are sections where I'm holding 20mph+ which on an Ebike means repeatedly sprinting an unassisted 47lb bike from 14-20+ mph and there are other technical sections sections where you are repeatedly pumping, jumping, pre-jumping, pre-loading. manualling, hopping a 47lb bike to try and stay smooth enough to hold momentum without pedalling.
Honestly the route is not do-able faster on an assisted lightweight (47lb) fullsuspension Emtb as a regular 100m hardtail.
This highlights the real "price" we have to pay by being limited to a 15mph assist.
for some of the riding I do It's a stupidly low limit and you won't ever convince me otherwise.
I can see very well you're probably never going to agree and that's fine but please don't accuse any responsible rider riding no differently that they would on a non assisted mtb of "fucking you over"

 

[Churchill]

For me there is 0 benefit to have an E-MTB that sputters and stops assisting at some randomly selected speed. In fact, if I can't hack an E-bike to remove the restriction, I won't buy it!
Pay attention Specialized! I would never buy a motorcycle or automobile that started shutting off the fuel injection of at a predetermined, and completely arbitrary speed.

The trail system in my area is either motorized with no restrictions or non-motorized, so a restricted bike does not allow me to ride any additional trails and would just piss me off.. I ride my EMBT on multiple use trails with motocross bikes going 60, 70, even 80 miles per hour. It's not a problem for hikers, bicycles, horses or ATV's.

Also, I'm usually hitting 40 MPH on the downhills on my Specialized Enduro anyway. Next thing you know, Specialized will probably add a chip and sensor to their new pedal bikes that activates the brakes on downhills so you don't go over 19MPH, ha ha.

 

[knut7]

The pedelec has it's limitations to keep it as similar to a regular bike as possible. That's the price you pay to get an ebike that is legal on bike infrastructure and non motorized trails. On motorized trails why not run something else? It seems quite a few people is derestricting. You do know that you are running an unregistered moped (or motor bike if top speed is over 45kph), you're riding without insurance, the moped has got no type approval. If you are involved in an accident you may end up owing someone a lot of money. Is it worth riding an illegal moped just because you think it's okay to get another 5mph out of it?

Sure, some will say it won't ever be a problem for them. But it will be a problem for some. It has already happened. Why risk it?

 

[outerlimits]

Keep the restriction at 25kmh
Ebikes still have a hard time being accepted in a lot of areas. It just gives ammo to the twats that want to ban them. Then there are all the legal ramifications if you have an accident on a de-restricted bike and hurt someone.
If you find your eMtb too restrictive above 25kmh, get on a Brose motored bike, as they are not restrictive at all when the power cuts out.
If your not happy with that, maybe you should get a motorbike, not a ebike.

 

[R120]

TBH the difference between the motors above cut out isnt all that, i cant really tell the difference between the shimano and brose, the bosch you can a bit but its far more noticeable on some bikes than others. I think the assistance masks a lot of the inherent pedal platform performances of many FS bike designs.The pedal cut out on my Hardtail is barely noticeable, but a little more so on my FS. I recently rode a hardtail Bosch and i couldn't really notice any issue with the motor cut out.

One thing i would say is that if you have gone to smaller cranks you are going to notice it when the motor cuts out.

 

[mymodel6]

You very much did miss my point. ie. You're not me. And just because of your own experience you somehow seem to believe an Emtb restricted to 15mph is faster than a non-Emtb everywhere.. That's simply not true at all.
the 15mph assist absolutely does hold me back from ridning certain trails as fast as I can on a non-Ebike.

100% agree. When i went out for the first few rides on my Kenevo before i derestricted it, my mate on his analogue bike totally smoked me everywhere off road when shiz got serious, it was absolutely ridiculous. Anybody using words to the effect of trying to convince people that the opposite is true, is either trolling, or has had a stroke.

 

[Sherman]

Trails are not streets or roads. It's up to the landmanager/owner what can be ridden there. Just ask them if it's ok to ride unrestricted ebikes on the trails you ride.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Trails are not streets or roads. It's up to the landmanager/owner what can be ridden there. Just ask them if it's ok to ride unrestricted ebikes on the trails you ride.

In the U.K. if the trail or land has public acces then it’s illegal. Most U.K. trails and cycles routes have public access (can’t think of any that don’t to be honest).

 

[Sherman]

In the U.K. if the trail or land has public acces then it’s illegal. Most U.K. trails and cycles routes have public access (can’t think of any that don’t to be honest).

Exactly, the land owner (governing body) has determined what's allowed. I don't know if any UK trail centers are on private property, might be easier to get permission there to ride unrestricted.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

UK Pedelec Law

 

[Topov]

Agreed on all points, I just don't think the politicians will see any benefits to them to upping the assist limit - there are no votes in it and they will be too worried about Daily Fail articles like this...

Electric bikes may be green and trendy, but last week they claimed their first British victim | Daily Mail Online

Everyone seems to have forgotten this one already......
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
even a normal bike ridden by an idiot can kill

 

[mymodel6]

Everyone seems to have forgotten this one already......
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
even a normal bike ridden by an idiot can kill

No one has forgotten that, it's just not been mentioned in this particular thread.

 

[MattyB]

Everyone seems to have forgotten this one already......
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian
even a normal bike ridden by an idiot can kill

...except that I mentioned it on the previous page...

I suspect if Brexit wasn't dominating the political agenda so much the cycling laws might have been revisited by now after that case involving the lady killed by the fixie rider a few years ago; the UK laws on cycling are pretty antiquated and unfit for purpose.

 

[MartinH]

The simple reason for the limit is to keep clear blue water between ‘bikes’ and ‘mopeds’. Personally I think bikes could be allowed safety to go nearer to the moped limit - but this is NEVER going to happen in this safety / liability obsessed world! Doesn’t matter if it’s cars/ bikes whatever - no government is EVER going to increase any limit on anything ever again! Just look at road limits - it is national policy whenever making any change whatsoever to a road that they reduce the speed limit afterwards. That way they can’t get sued!

 

[khorn]

In Denmark since July this year, electric bicycles are allowed a speed limit of 45 kph. Only difference is that helmet is mandatory together with an insurance. They are allowed on dedicated cycling paths and becoming extremely popular. Me personally have one and riding to and from work 80 km each day. I can do 150 km on 1 charge and the peak power on the motor is 1500+ watts and I’m usually quicker than the cars at red light ?

Karsten

 

[Gary]

helmet is mandatory together with an insurance

I'm out on both counts there. despite already holding insurance and wearing a helmet from time to time I'm massively against either becoming mandatory for bicycles.

 

[khorn]

I'm out on both counts there. despite already holding insurance and wearing a helmet from time to time I'm massively against either becoming mandatory for bicycles.

I find that perfectly ok but I then also believe that if you go in with a head injury you have to pay all the expenses yourself - Even if you end up as a vegetable. Seriously, do you also believe that small mopeds should ride around without helmets and insurances? it’s the same speed limit here. For both.

Karsten

 

[Gary]

Wow!
What an absolutely wank thing to say.
I ride my non elctrically assisted roadbike at 40mph+ regularly with no helmet and have done all my life. Our speed limits are placed on the roads. Not me or the bicycle. And personally I'd like it to stay that way.
A moped isn't only pedal controlled, is massively more powerful and weighs considerably more so No. I don't think the same rules apply.
I can't even remember the last time I ever saw a moped with pedals being ridden on a road TBH. about 1980 maybe.

 

[khorn]

Wow!
What an absolutely wank thing to say.
I ride my non elctrically assisted roadbike at 40mph+ regularly with no helmet and have done all my life. Our speed limits are placed on the roads. Not me or the bicycle. And personally I'd like it to stay that way.
A moped isn't only pedal controlled, is massively more powerful and weighs considerably more so No. I don't think the same rules apply.
I can't even remember the last time I ever saw a moped with pedals being ridden on a road TBH. about 1980 maybe.

Gary; do you have a hard time with people who don’t share the same opinion as you? ?

Karsten

PS Going down a downhill track at 45 mph without a helmet I simply find stupid!

 

[Gary]

I didn't say anything about going down a DH track at all. The only sections of DH tracks you can hit speeds of 45 mph are open piste and manmade motorway.
I have a very hard time understanding people who say such selfish things about others who are seriously hurt disabled etc. at all. Nevermind when their view is based on monetary terms.
And that's the nicest way I can put it.

 

[Oldmanlevo]

Personally i don't understand why there is such a large (and heated) discussion about speed...e-bikes are (in my opinion) more about longevity of the ride and climbing, neither that need speed (a safe speed on the trail is not overcome by batteries)...i am more interested in getting better batteries than worrying about speed...

 

[Gary]

Personally i don't understand why...

In day to day life it's just not a problem for anyone, ever whichever side your 'opinion' lies with

 

[Oldmanlevo]

In my travels this summer, over 12-15 states and over 500 miles of trail riding, i found the number one thing that anti-e bike riders talked about was the "speed" that e-bikes brought to the trail...if we are going to convince the land managers to allow e-bikes we need to (not) talk about speed and stress the virtues of the e-bikes, not feed into their fears...and pressing the "de-restricting" just adds to that fear.
That is the reason Specialized has been attempting to make their bikes hack proof...

 

[Gary]

You need to stop thinking the whole world is "the States"

 

[outerlimits]

Wow!
I ride my non elctrically assisted roadbike at 40mph+ regularly with no helmet and have done all my life. Our speed limits are placed on the roads. Not me or the bicycle. And personally I'd like it to stay that way.

Welcome to Australia

All bicycle riders must wear helmets
Bar length must not exceed 700mm
Reflectors must be fitted, front, rear, side, and both sides of peddles.
A bell or suitable warning device must be fitted, along with a chain guard to stop clothing being trapped in the chain.

You must ride your bicycle to the same road rules that apply to cars. One hand must be on the handle bars at all times.

We are also trying desperately to implement mandatory registration and number plates for all bicycles, to make it safer for you and other road users.

Hope you enjoy your stay.

.................
The above is not a joke

Helmets,.. you will definitely get fined for this, it is heavily policed, you just can’t ride without one, it costs too much
Bell... there have been taskforces set up at popular riding spots to pull over and fine non compliant bicycles.
Speeding,... radars have been set especially to catch speeding bikes. Also many have been caught for other road rules. Stop signs and traffic light infringements are regularly handed out.

There really is a big push in this country to have registered bikes. Sad but true.

 

[Oldmanlevo]

You need to stop thinking the whole world is "the States"

Where did you get that from?
I said I travelled the states, so I referenced the states, and its issues...I never mentioned anywhere else, because I have limited knowledge of outside the states. If you need to talk about the world, then we need a lot more coffee and alot more time...