DT ratchet teeth 54T vs 36T vs stock 18T for ebike

[MadManPedal]

About the 54T, I saw some threads mentioning it can fail and explode even without the motor assistance. Since this is e-bike specific topic, I'm wondering anyone has actually gotten an exploded DT 54T in their high-torque ebikes.

And I'm about to change a steel freehub because the motor is killing the stock DT soft aluminum freehub, maybe upgrade the stock 18T in the process as well. The thing that I want to know is if the 18T is most durable of all the three types of teeth.

 

[Gary]

You ideally do want a fairly fast pick up/High engagement in a Freehub for an Ebike as there's also a freewheel in the motor and a slow pick up is amplified when riding.
You don't actually mention which particular DT hub you have.
Their higher end hubs are very reliable. And if you do manage to destroy one it's covered by warranty.

 

[Dan63]

Had a 54T upgrade in place of the 18 on my DT350 with no problems.

 

[MadManPedal]

You ideally do want a fairly fast pick up/High engagement in a Freehub for an Ebike as there's also a freewheel in the motor and a slow pick up is amplified when riding.
You don't actually mention which particular DT hub you have.
Their higher end hubs are very reliable. And if you do manage to destroy one it's covered by warranty.

The high-end DT hubs? They are stock aluminum-made after all and they can't be durable with this material.
Mine is 240s with the aluminum hub but I doubt DT will cover anybody of the freehub after the teeth's been eating through the spine. Anybody who ever got a free freehub for this reason can rise a hand.
I'm not sure if a tight engagement is a long engagement on ebike since the average speed is much faster, the torque is stronger, the 54T can chip.

 

[MadManPedal]

Had a 54T upgrade in place of the 18 on my DT350 with no problems.

What is your average speed of every 50 miles and how many torques the bike produces? A lot people said it was fine before, but when things start to get deeper, they just ride slower like a normal bike.

 

[Gary]

OMG!
Alu HG Freehub bodies are absolutely fine if you simply tighten the cassette lockring adequately.
You honestly think you and your motor put out more watts than a pro road rider? Here's news for you. You don't!

As for your anxiety about engagement.
Worriers gonna worry.

Ive been through more motors than I can remember and probably 10000 miles on Emtbs and never had to replace a single alu Freehub body through splines pitting

 

[Gary]

What is your average speed of every 50 miles and how many torques the bike produces? A lot people said it was fine before, but when things start to get deeper, they just ride slower like a normal bike.

Riding fast isn't an issue. Why would you think it was?

 

[MadManPedal]

OMG!
Alu HG Freehub bodies are absolutely fine if you simply tighten the cassette lockring adequately.
You honestly think you and your motor put out more watts than a pro road rider? Here's news for you. You don't!

As for your anxiety about engagement.
Worriers gonna worry.

Ive been through more motors than I can remember and probably 10000 miles on Emtbs and never had to replace a single alu Freehub body through splines pitting

Yes I do. My average speed is 30mph of every 50 miles. And I can ride faster for every 100 miles a day. The watts I think are probably averaged at 1000W with 2000W peak. So it's above 1 horse power. It's more like a horse riding a bike, not a pro road rider technically.

Yet, wonder if you ever have a loose cassette because of aluminum freehub ?

Riding fast isn't an issue. Why would you think it was?

Faster = more rolling = more friction and drag to the ratchet teeth?

 

[Gary]

doesn't sound like you understand how a Freehub body ratchet works.

What bike, motor, battery, wheel size and gearing (chainring and cassette) are you using to be travelling at an average speed of 30mph for 50miles? (and even FASTER for 100miles ?)

It's definitely not an off the shelf class 1 EMTB

 

[MadManPedal]

doesn't sound like you understand how a Freehub body ratchet works.

What bike, motor, battery, wheel size and gearing (chainring and cassette) are you using to be travelling at an average speed of 30mph for 50miles? (and even FASTER for 100miles ?)

It's definitely not an off the shelf class 1 EMTB

Oh boy. Ever seen a eaten free hub that has loose cassette? Good luck tightening then.
I know you are out of my original question. But I can tell you it's a modified/overclocked mid drive. Yet, , still a mid drive. With 50T chainring, I can do 40mph and more if I want.

 

[Gary]

You sound like an absolute weapon.
40mph isn't difficult to attain on a normal roadbike. Holding it for a long period/distance is.
So what motor is it and how big a battery are you using if you can hold 30mph for 50-100miles . At a guess you'd need 3000wh and huge additional weight to carry . Doesnt sound fun to me but each to his own.
Have you considered just buying a 50cc moped? Probably be lighter.

 

[MadManPedal]

Still lighter. Battery is probably the only thing that's a bit heavy. It's a modified bafang ultra max. The battery is separated into 4 of 650wh packs. 2 on the bike, 2 on my backpack. Also, I can swap to gravel wheelsets without shock for less rolling resistance. Living around the lake, no traffic in the mid night. Pedal and swap battery until the each of them runs out.

 

[Hamina]

And I'm about to change a steel freehub because the motor is killing the stock DT soft aluminum freehub, maybe upgrade the stock 18T in the process as well. The thing that I want to know is if the 18T is most durable of all the three types of teeth.

Just replaced my Rail 5 stock hub with DT Swiss 240s. After 200km there's grooves in the HG-driver. Could be also that the grooves are in the painting/coating. The play between the NX cassette and HG-driver is much bigger than in my previous Bontrager lowcost hub. Seems to work, but I'm a little suspicious.

The lockring was tightened properly.

 

[Gary]

Still lighter. Battery is probably the only thing that's a bit heavy. It's a modified bafang ultra max. The battery is separated into 4 of 650wh packs. 2 on the bike, 2 on my backpack. Also, I can swap to gravel wheelsets without shock for less rolling resistance. Living around the lake, no traffic in the mid night. Pedal and swap battery until the each of them runs out.

Still begs the question. Why?

 

[Jackware]

Still begs the question. Why?

Have you never wanted to race around a loch repeatedly at midnight carrying 10kg in your backpack?

 

[MadManPedal]

Still begs the question. Why?

I don't want to be the 1st to have the 54T exploded on ebike? 54T is loud, which is a good thing so people will know I am right behind them.

 

[Gary]

Jackware understood the question.

 

[MadManPedal]

Jackware understood the question.

Don't scream that loud

 

[Gary]

I never scream. Not even riding round lochs at midnight... Where no one's gonna hear you

 

[Gary]

Been thinking about your predicament with drivetrain wear.
do you realise your average speed is higher than that of a Tour de France peleton on a flat stage?
to put that into perspective we're talking the fastest riders on the planet with super high power to weight ratios on high end bikes with low rolling resistance and aero kit all drafting/cheating the wind and spinning around 80-90rpm and averaging around 26-28mph.
Their gearing is typically 50/34 with an 11-28 cassette. puting them in the 12-16t cassette sprockets and big ring for a lot of these stages.
The BIG difference here because of the fact they're drafting means they're *only* outputing around 250-300w avg over the whole stage. Whereas you are having to output a massively higher wattage because you're solo, not a world class athlete and (I'd guess) about as aero as a brick.

Two things struck me here.

1. 1 riding an aero set-up (bike and clothing) could save you as much as whole battery over your longer rides.
2. your gearing is too low. I'd wager you don't sit at 90rpm and becuse of the extra torque you're using to generate the 30mph+ average you're putting tremendous strain through tiny sprockets. eg. your 11t sprocket only actually has 6 teeth in contact with the chain. No wonder you're wearing everything out so fast, eh?

Depending on your wheel/tyre size and average cadence. I'd recommend going up to a much larger chainring and a close ratio cassette such as an 11-28 0r 11-32
that way you'd be able to spend more time in the middle of the cassette with more chain wrap and greater gear choice to spread load/wear more evenly throughout the cassette.

as for freehub load. this should not matter all that much unless you are constantly using high gearing, and alternating between freewheeling and loading up the freehub in that high gear and always allowing the motor to do more work than the rider. (eg. low cadence and super high initial torque)
Any decent Freehub is designed to take loads of over 2000w. But that sort of power through purely human output follows a more gradual ramp up than your modified motor will.

What actual gearing do you run?
ie.
Cassette ratio and speed?
Wheel size?
Tyre volume?
and what exact tyres are you running? (size, model, compound)

Please post a pic of your bike and set up. I'm really interested to see it and also curious just how (un) aero your set-up is.

Ps. Also what clothing do you ride in? (does not require pics )

 

[Mikerb]

This does not even sound like an EMTB to me!

 

[MadManPedal]

Heated up, officer? A cycling police trying to check stuff?
Go get a frame fitted for G510 and a Wooftooth chainring, you will get the speed I got.
And remember to get gore-tex pants with loud pedal scratchy sound.
After passing the pro cycling team on the road, they will never forget.

 

[MadManPedal]

This does not even sound like an EMTB to me!

What actually defines an EMTB? Maybe a E-vehicle with shock resistance and some manual pedals are more accurate for this.

 

[Gary]

Heated up, officer? A cycling police trying to check stuff?
Go get a frame fitted for G510 and a Wooftooth chainring, you will get the speed I got.
And remember to get gore-tex pants with loud pedal scratchy sound.
After passing the pro cycling team on the road, they will never forget.

Stoner much? ??

Now calm down and stop being so paranoid. No one here wants to dob you in to plod. Funnily enough. Being a cycling forum nerd I just wanted to geek out at your outlandish setup.
Oh. And you need a small reality check. no proper road riders actually care about some idiot wearing uncomfortable clothing passing them on an illegal Ebike.

 

[MadManPedal]

Then show your average speed first. Don't worry, I won't try further to get into your pants

 

[Gary]

No one's really interested in average measurements of your electrically enhanced appendage or my fully naturally achievements.

Stop teasing us all and just post a pic of your KOM mobile, eh?

 

[Mikerb]

What actually defines an EMTB? Maybe a E-vehicle with shock resistance and some manual pedals are more accurate for this.

..........or even a mountain bike..electric or not! No photo..it does not exist!!

 

[MadManPedal]

No one's really interested in average measurements of your electrically enhanced appendage or my fully naturally achievements.

Stop teasing us all and just post a pic of your KOM mobile, eh?

Not after your mileage and average speed. I'm interested into a guy's status who has 6 years of cycling experience and not even break a freehub and took him a week to figure out the gears.

 

[CRFan1]

This post is so confusing, lol........

 

[MadManPedal]

What I can say? Guy who's so into cycling that think he's a derailleur and tried to derail my post.