Does an Ebike make your legs waste away ;-)

[Mrj35]

Great question!
IMO, all about the application /use of tools. I've met emtb riders. 100% Turbo!
Me? I want "just enough" help to make it to get more laps/climbs in.
Hence, my consideration to sell Full fat and stick with SL.
PS: I still ride my standard bikes!

Agreed. Everyone has different reasons/uses for the e-bike. I got it to renew my interest in riding as I was tired of doing big climbs and walking half the time. Also keeping up with fitter riders was a big issue as they didn't like to take breaks either so when I'd catch up they would just be ready to go again. Also big mountain epics are more palatable as I no longer need to train for like 4 months to have fitness to do a 1500-2000 meter day.

The bonus that I never realized was I could have an incredibly capable DH oriented pedal bike. That has just blown me away how capable it is at fast DH.

Also I've increased muscle mass from so much riding lately so thats been awesome too.
Yesterday we did 1100 meters and steep dh tracks in about 1h 20mins and we were pretty casual with it. It would take twice as long to shuttle that!

I ride with both regular bike riders and ebike. I'm easy, I just like to get out and enjoy it.

 

[RickBullotta]

In my experience, yes it does. Can you push hard on an eMTB? Sure. But if you're only riding eMTB it's unlikely that you'll push yourself as consistently hard as you would on an Amish bike. It varies week by week, but lately I'm on the eMTB one day a week and the regular bike(s) four days a week.

 

[Weeksy]

My ebikes are uplift vans. Simple as that. On my Ebike days i don't care about my HR, my cardio, they're just a method of getting me to the top of the hill to get back down the trails.
I still ride my MTB equally in terms of days out and on the other days i'll be found riding on Zwift to sort the cardio side of things, so the Eeb, well that's just a means to an end. I go to places where i have and can pedal up, sure, been there done that. But these days, i just want the fun side of things sometimes... So i pull out the power.

 

[Desmopilot]

The Bullit has allowed me to overcome the arthritis in both my knees. When one of my knees starts to give out, I bump up a power level step until I recover, then bump it back down. I set the STEPs to have 6 power levels and spend most of my time between level 3 and 4. Hit 5 a couple times briefly. I can clear climbs again that I haven't been able to do in years. I'm now able to ride 2 days in a row without limping afterwards and my leg muscles are returning. Riding the Bullit has brought real joy back to mountain biking for me. It's a beast on the downhill as well.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I've lost 'peak' power since I began riding the e-bike but it sure seems like my Z2 stuff is notably better. I feel really strong on my normal bike lately.

Also, my technique seems really good lately as well and I think the e-bike has assisted with this.

I will say that my normal bike is a weight weenie fast rolling trail bike. My days of pushing around a 33# AM/ Enduro bike on heavy tires are over. Just isn't fun any longer to me.

Have the Relay for the gnar and the Smuggler for the trails.

 

[Don805]

Yes and no, I just experiencing the same thing. After spending the last 2 and a half years just e-biking (I ride everywhere as fast as i can, have a 60nm and full fat) Last week I pulled one of my Amish bikes off the wall and went for a ride. Holy crap i spent the first 15 minutes stopping to see why when the bike was under load it felt like the rear hub was locking up. This feeling went away by the third ride.

My conclusion was that my leg muscles had gotten used to the e-bike high cadence and had to be retrained to the Amish bikes slower more powerful pedal stroke. Maybe a muscle firing thing ??.

I am going to add some Amish bike riding back in from time to time. Not as much fun as the e-bikes though.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Yes and no, I just experiencing the same thing. After spending the last 2 and a half years just e-biking (I ride everywhere as fast as i can, have a 60nm and full fat) Last week I pulled one of my Amish bikes off the wall and went for a ride. Holy crap i spent the first 15 minutes stopping to see why when the bike was under load it felt like the rear hub was locking up. This feeling went away by the third ride.

My conclusion was that my leg muscles had gotten used to the e-bike high cadence and had to be retrained to the Amish bikes slower more powerful pedal stroke. Maybe a muscle firing thing ??.

I am going to add some Amish bike riding back in from time to time. Not as much fun as the e-bikes though.

Have you got shorter cranks on the ebikes? That'll play a pretty big part in the cadence vs torque thing and definitely takes a bit of getting used to unless you're switching between them regularly.

If, (like me) you've got shorter cranks on the ebike, you'll be used to higher cadence. When you try to spin the longer cranks at the same cadence you'll need a whole lot more power to keep them turning at the same speed.

I always try to focus on effort rather than speed. Chasing speed, whether that's trail speed or cadence, is an easy way to burn out.

 

[Don805]

Have you got shorter cranks on the ebikes? That'll play a pretty big part in the cadence vs torque thing and definitely takes a bit of getting used to unless you're switching between them regularly.

If, (like me) you've got shorter cranks on the ebike, you'll be used to higher cadence. When you try to spin the longer cranks at the same cadence you'll need a whole lot more power to keep them turning at the same speed.

I always try to focus on effort rather than speed. Chasing speed, whether that's trail speed or cadence, is an easy way to burn out.

Good point. Both my e-bikes have shorter cranks.

Also, I noticed when climbing steep grades on an Amish bike there is a leverage thing going on. More pulling or locking against the bars as we torque through our pedal strokes. Not sure how to explain, but i find ride e-bikes hands stay pretty lite on the bars and the push/ pull thing is not really needed.

 

[Zed]

It usually off for ~50% if my rides. Although longer rides I tend to rely on it more towards the end.

For me though, pedalling with the motor off is great for leg strength but doesn't really translate into better cardio for some reason. I've tried!

Maybe fill the tyres with sand, or put a rubber band around the rear brake lever.

 

[Mrj35]

Maybe fill the tyres with sand, or put a rubber band around the rear brake lever.

200 IQ

 

[Lazy Clydesdale]

I have started "cross training" by riding with the motor off at some point in my rides, because of this concern.

I could ride my regular bikes, but now that I have adapted to this emtb, those feel very twitchy. With a race coming up soon, I think it best to not go back and forth.

One of my favorite horrible experiences was climbing Rocacorba in July on a rented Moterra without using the motor. Good for mental discipline to not push that power button and end the suffering instantly..

 

[Mrj35]

end the suffering instantly

Precisely the reason I bought an e-bike

 

[Plummet]

For me though, the main reason for buying an ebike was to be able to ride for longer rather than be able to do shorter rides quicker.

Yeah, I could stick to a normal MTB and get a killer workout over 20 miles but then I only get to do 20 miles.

The ebike means I can go out and do double that.

Just going faster with the assistance on is great for the legs but doesn't keep my heart rate up like it would with the motor off or if I'm riding a normal bike.

Last ride I did, I tried again. The last 4 or 5 miles back to the car is relatively flat. Couple of gentle climbs but nothing sustained. I left the bike in Trail and basically ride as fast as possible the whole way back. My legs were on fire but I was barely out of breath.

That's a good workout for the legs. But there can't have been any real fitness benefit. If I'd have done it with the motor off, I'd have at least got my heart rate up a bit.


Exactly this.

It's so eaay to fall into the into the trap of thinking I'll turn the assistance up on this bit because it's a bit of a drag. And Oh, this hill is a bit difficult, I'll just up the power a bit. "well, this bit is boring so I'll power through on boost until the next fun bit".

Before you know it, your fitness starts to disappear and it's only when you jump on a normal bike that you reasise how much it's suffered.

I think you might have misunderstood me. I'm not out there doing the same distance as mtb in a shorter time. I'll do the same time or longer and go for more distance more speed, more laps.

I don't get how people cant get a workout in higher power levels. I just push until I hit the limiter then keep pushing. The very reason I got an e-bike was increase fun per hour. Reduce the boring bits I don't like and increase the fun bits and ride stuff that isn't possible to ride on an mtb.

When I come to that boring bit I don't throttle back on power, I up the power and stomp that boring piece of shit section as fast as I can.

I have no desire to ride an emtb at mtb speeds or even similar speeds up. I want to despatch that climb asap so i can move onto the next down and then the next climb.

I'll admit that sometimes i get leg burn without lung bursting, but often the combo is there as i'm just pushing hard everywhere. I find I push harder on the E than i do on the mtb because i dont need to keep anything in the tank on the E. Blow myself up on the e. Slap it in boost, back the effort off and recover. One the mtb I typically leave something in the tank to get home.

FYI, I'm 50% mtb/E. So I dont need to ride the e with the motor switch off to try and get mtb resistance. I just ride my mtb when i want mtb resistance. The mtb is fun and playful and i enjoy the shit out that riding style. The E is a god damn monster truck or warp factor ploughing which is also fun AF. Both compliment each other.

By riding both e and mtb I dont have to try an emulate mtb with the E. I just immerse myself in full guttural E mania.

 

[Mrj35]

I think you might have misunderstood me. I'm not out there doing the same distance as mtb in a shorter time. I'll do the same time or longer and go for more distance more speed, more laps.

I don't get how people cant get a workout in higher power levels. I just push until I hit the limiter then keep pushing. The very reason I got an e-bike was increase fun per hour. Reduce the boring bits I don't like and increase the fun bits and ride stuff that isn't possible to ride on an mtb.

When I come to that boring bit I don't throttle back on power, I up the power and stomp that boring piece of shit section as fast as I can.

I have no desire to ride an emtb at mtb speeds or even similar speeds up. I want to despatch that climb asap so i can move onto the next down and then the next climb.

I'll admit that sometimes i get leg burn without lung bursting, but often the combo is there as i'm just pushing hard everywhere. I find I push harder on the E than i do on the mtb because i dont need to keep anything in the tank on the E. Blow myself up on the e. Slap it in boost, back the effort off and recover. One the mtb I typically leave something in the tank to get home.

FYI, I'm 50% mtb/E. So I dont need to ride the e with the motor switch off to try and get mtb resistance. I just ride my mtb when i want mtb resistance. The mtb is fun and playful and i enjoy the shit out that riding style. The E is a god damn monster truck or warp factor ploughing which is also fun AF. Both compliment each other.

By riding both e and mtb I dont have to try an emulate mtb with the E. I just immerse myself in full guttural E mania.

Man the first time I used an e-bike it was an absolute game changer on flatter chunky sections. Like the lightbulb just went off in my brain and I realised I could be sending those sections at 30kmh straight into the next dh section. I remember my buddies on regular bikes saying how the trail we did was a bit crappy because it had these sections that werent flowy and ruined the trail. I on the other hand had an absolute blaster down it. I had rented it for a multi day bike trip last summer because I wasn't in any shape for daily 900 meter climbs lol. It was my test to see if I wanted to buy an e-bike. Bought one about a month later.

The bike I rented was a rockymountain altitude powerplay. It was a great bike but I wanted a bike with more travel and an easily replaceable battery. When I go do a big day say in whistler I will bring a 900w battery and a 540w and do like a 2500 meter day hitting different spots.

 

[B1rdie]

^^^
Having spare batteries is a must if you want to work out AND have fun on an emtb, (or a fast charger ).
Using only one, its hard to get more than 1:30 hours riding. I miss the long 4+ hours I used to do with the naughtybikes.

 

[Mrj35]

^^^
Having spare batteries is a must if you want to work out AND have fun on an emtb, (or a fast charger ).
Using only one, its hard to get more than 1:30 hours riding. I miss the long 4+ hours I used to do with the naughtybikes.

Yeah in hindsight I would of just bought two 900w batteries lol

 

[Plummet]

Man the first time I used an e-bike it was an absolute game changer on flatter chunky sections. Like the lightbulb just went off in my brain and I realised I could be sending those sections at 30kmh straight into the next dh section. I remember my buddies on regular bikes saying how the trail we did was a bit crappy because it had these sections that werent flowy and ruined the trail. I on the other hand had an absolute blaster down it. I had rented it for a multi day bike trip last summer because I wasn't in any shape for daily 900 meter climbs lol. It was my test to see if I wanted to buy an e-bike. Bought one about a month later.

The bike I rented was a rockymountain altitude powerplay. It was a great bike but I wanted a bike with more travel and an easily replaceable battery. When I go do a big day say in whistler I will bring a 900w battery and a 540w and do like a 2500 meter day hitting different spots.

Nice, what bike did you end up with?

 

[Mrj35]

Nice, what bike did you end up with?

I got a 2023 norco range vlt a2, it was 45% off and I got like 45% off on the additional bigger battery as well. I wanted the rockshox package as the yoke setup isn't good for fox dhx 2 (prone to blowing up) and also I wanted the zeb so I could put the 190mm airshaft in. The higher spec range vlt a1 didnt have the specs I wanted anyway. Had to do a few upgrades, 40mm rise bars, stronger wheels (blew up the back wheel after about 5 rides). Different brake pads,discs.

The bike is a dh machine that climbs everything, quite happy with it. It probably weighs over 60lbs but I hardly notice it anymore after enough adapting to it.

The new norco ranges have the bosch motors and high pivot but that isn't really enough difference for me. I think my next bike will be a few iterations out when bombardier makes a good bike with pinions transmission gear box. No more derailleurs

 

[Astro66]

Maybe people are using Ebikes differently. But I determine how much work my legs do, by changing the assist level.

If you want to work your legs harder. Just turn the assist down. I really don't understand why people wouldn't do this, or want to be forced into using the effort required, determined by the gradient they are riding.

With an ebike. You control the level of effort of your ride, rather than the terrain. And for me. I monitor my heart-rate and change the Assist Level to keep my heart-rate at a certain level, dependant on the workout I want that day.

If you believe your legs are getting weaker and want them stronger. Turn your assist down, and get your heart-rate up. It's not hard.

 

[Plummet]

Maybe people are using Ebikes differently. But I determine how much work my legs do, by changing the assist level.

If you want to work your legs harder. Just turn the assist down. I really don't understand why people wouldn't do this, or want to be forced into using the effort required, determined by the gradient they are riding.

With an ebike. You control the level of effort of your ride, rather than the terrain. And for me. I monitor my heart-rate and change the Assist Level to keep my heart-rate at a certain level, dependant on the workout I want that day.

If you believe your legs are getting weaker and want them stronger. Turn your assist down, and get your heart-rate up. It's not hard.

I don't work this way. Power up/down = go faster/slower. Not more work/less work.
For me work is independent of more power level selected. Work done is a choice by how much additional effort you put in over and above motor output. My hardest most exhausting rides are often the full power smash fests.

 

[Weeksy]

Mine are opposite. I sweat a LOT when i ride.... But when on Ebike i don't sweat at all, i just sit and use the power. Up, across, over, power.. but i don't try and push at all. It's not what the ebike is for.

 

[El Grifo]

It's not an E-Bike that will make your legs week.
A NO-Bike is what will do that !

 

[E-MAD MALC]

Regardless of E mtb or non mtb is the idea of cycling to keep fit as possible as well has having your fun no matter what your discipline

 

[rushy46]

I‘ve been using my first e-bike for a couple of weeks now and what I can tell I am riding my far more often than with my normal Enduro bike. I usually go to bikeparks or shuttle assisted trailcenters with my normal bike and didn‘t do lots of climbing the last couple of years - that changed with the new bike, a Turbo Levo SL. So I am getting more cardio workout than before and for general fitness I am doing weight lifting anyway.

 

[El Grifo]

My normal MTB was a shed queen for the last few years.
Now that I have an EMTB, I am out on the trails at least twice a week, 70k plus !

 

[arTNC]

Mine are opposite. I sweat a LOT when i ride.... But when on Ebike i don't sweat at all, i just sit and use the power. Up, across, over, power.. but i don't try and push at all. It's not what the ebike is for.

On your last sentence maybe it would be better to add..."for me". I do get what you're saying, I think. However, your ride on your ebike vs your pedal-only bike sound a lot different than what many of us experience when and where we ride.

I'd say for comparisons sake to think about riding a dirt motorcycle on an actual trail...maybe even a rough trail. You have a motor, so what's the big deal? Those of us who ride dirt motors know it's not like cruising down an interstate on a full boat touring motorcycle. You work, and sometimes you work really hard.

The emtb on the other hand doesn't even let you get away with just using the motor...which is a good, satisfying thing. Even in winter here in my home area, I can easily work up a sweat after a very time on a trail on my emtb. But maybe it comes down to where we're riding. Where I ride I can't just sit on my emtb and use the power like you mention.

 

[Weeksy]

I started off with 'mine' so don't need to clarify later.
I also didn't need to qualify it with what anyone else does or doesn't do, because I was clearly talking about my rides.
I'm not looking to put anyone down or throw accusations about how anyone else rides, hence using 'mine'
Tonight I did 20 miles on my Specialized Status and it was totally different to my emtb rides, but that's completely ok.

With regards to motorcycles, I've owned 50+ and ridden and raced them, toured Europe etc. so again, I don't need to know the difference between motorbikes and MTB, I've got it.

I'm a bit confused how I'm in the wrong here when I was simply saying how emtbs are for me, not for anyone else

 

[Suns_PSD]

On your last sentence maybe it would be better to add..."for me". I do get what you're saying, I think. However, your ride on your ebike vs your pedal-only bike sound a lot different than what many of us experience when and where we ride.

I'd say for comparisons sake to think about riding a dirt motorcycle on an actual trail...maybe even a rough trail. You have a motor, so what's the big deal? Those of us who ride dirt motors know it's not like cruising down an interstate on a full boat touring motorcycle. You work, and sometimes you work really hard.

The emtb on the other hand doesn't even let you get away with just using the motor...which is a good, satisfying thing. Even in winter here in my home area, I can easily work up a sweat after a very time on a trail on my emtb. But maybe it comes down to where we're riding. Where I ride I can't just sit on my emtb and use the power like you mention.

To be fair we are in TX and break a sweat walking to the car.

 

[El Grifo]

To be fair we are in TX and break a sweat walking to the car.

Is that a place or a condition ?

"TX is an abbreviation of Transmit. It may refer to packet or bytes. It's the data that is transmitted from a point of origin (e.g. a server, a router) RX is an abbreviation of Receive."

Perhaps broaden your geography !

 

[Astro66]

I don't work this way. Power up/down = go faster/slower. Not more work/less work.

Sure. I was just trying to answer the question posed by the OP. And the answer I'm giving is that Ebikes don't cause your legs to waste away. It's the user that determines whether your legs waste away. And that's irrespective of whether you ride an EMTB or a MTB.

You can ride hard or easy on both.

When riding at my nearest MTB Park. I don't use the uplift service when I take my EMTB. But I did when I rode my MTB. So my legs do more work on the EMTB. And I feel it, because I have suffered leg cramps, by the end of the day, on the EMTB, where I never had this on the MTB.

So once again. The point is, the User determines the level of workout your legs get. Not the bike.