Levo Gen 3 Do I need to upgrade my suspension or something else?

[EmtbChar]

I think that you should ensure that you have 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with. I don't know what tyres the OP has but would guess 26-30psi is reasonable, but then I've never had a Levo Carbon ...

Edit: is this right?

Front Tire
Butcher, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T9 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 29x2.6"

Rear Tire
Eliminator, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T7 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 27.5x2.6"

Yep those are the tires. Not sure what they’re currently set at..

 

[irie]

Correct. Seated position is not consequential for setting fork sag in the attack position. However, since you are connected at the feet and at the hands, if the bars are 3" higher, it has an effect since your hands, shoulders, chest and upper body are now canted up by that amount and it will move your CG aft and up, taking weight off of the fork and affecting sag.

Since the attack position is adopted to weight the front, arms should be bent to compensate for higher bars.

 

[irie]

Yep those are the tires. Not sure what they’re currently set at..

Let us know please because they could be really high to prevent deflation in the warehouse/dealer etc.

If that's the case then they'll bounce like crazy!

 

[Montana St Alum]

Since the attack position is adopted to weight the front, arms should be bent to compensate for higher bars.

Exactly how much weight are you targeting on the fork in this scenario? 40% of body weight? 50% of body weight? Do you have a high CG or low? Is there an elbow angle, corrected for bar height? Running tokens? How many? No two people will set the same forward bias on weight, because no two people will have the same "attack position". Using the "attack position" to set sag sitting on the bike is just "kinda-sorta" useful. It'll probably get you in the ballpark. It'd be better to just start at the manufacturer's recommended pressures. OTOH, shock sag is much more consistently useful.

 

[Doomanic]

Using the "attack position" to set sag sitting on the bike is just "kinda-sorta" useful.

It’s a lot better than flopping down on the saddle like a sack of spuds…

 

[irie]

It’s a lot better than flopping down on the saddle like a sack of spuds…

... and it's also a lot better to try to adjust the attack position to compensate for having higher bars ...

 

[irie]

Exactly how much weight are you targeting on the fork in this scenario? ...

Since you mentioned CoG this might help you:

Attack Position MTB

The Attack Position, or Neutral Position, is the best for tackling downhill mountain biking

www.mtb-dynamics.com

 

[steve_sordy]

I think that you should ensure that you have 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with. I don't know what tyres the OP has but would guess 26-30psi is reasonable, but then I've never had a Levo Carbon ...

Edit: is this right?

Front Tire
Butcher, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T9 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 29x2.6"

Rear Tire
Eliminator, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T7 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 27.5x2.6"

I can't tell you what tyre pressure to use. I don't know what you weigh and I have never used those tyres; they may be stiff walled or not. And I don't know whether you ride seriously rocky trails or forest loam. But my pressures are a lot lower than your reasonable 26-30 psi.
Front tyre Maxxis Assegai TR DD 3C MaxxGrip 29x2.5.
Rear Tyre: WTB Trail Boss TCS Light TR 27.5x2.6 (TCS stands for Triple Compound + nylon Slash guard)

Both are set up tubeless and I have 17psi in the front and 20psi in the rear.
My riding weight is 95kg and I mostly ride in forests, with few rocks, but lots of roots.

I go from feel and the results I get when cornering or climbing. I will spend quite a bit of time to get what I'm looking for, and once I do, I measure it with my digital pressure gauge and then check my pressure before every ride. If I'm going somewhere rocky or just unknown, I will put a few psi more in the tyres and be prepared to adjust from there depending upon how the bike rides.

It is surprising how much difference 1 or 2 psi in the tyre pressure can make to the ride. I once set my pressure in the garage and set off on what proved to be a really hot day. The ride felt harsher that I was expecting, so I checked my psi and they were both up 1-2 psi. I was surprised that the temperature difference would have had that effect, but not surprised that it was noticeable.

 

[irie]

I can't tell you what tyre pressure to use. I don't know what you weigh and I have never used those tyres; they may be stiff walled or not. And I don't know whether you ride seriously rocky trails or forest loam. But my pressures are a lot lower than your reasonable 26-30 psi.
Front tyre Maxxis Assegai TR DD 3C MaxxGrip 29x2.5.
Rear Tyre: WTB Trail Boss TCS Light TR 27.5x2.6 (TCS stands for Triple Compound + nylon Slash guard)

Both are set up tubeless and I have 17psi in the front and 20psi in the rear.
My riding weight is 95kg and I mostly ride in forests, with few rocks, but lots of roots.

I go from feel and the results I get when cornering or climbing. I will spend quite a bit of time to get what I'm looking for, and once I do, I measure it with my digital pressure gauge and then check my pressure before every ride. If I'm going somewhere rocky or just unknown, I will put a few psi more in the tyres and be prepared to adjust from there depending upon how the bike rides.

It is surprising how much difference 1 or 2 psi in the tyre pressure can make to the ride. I once set my pressure in the garage and set off on what proved to be a really hot day. The ride felt harsher that I was expecting, so I checked my psi and they were both up 1-2 psi. I was surprised that the temperature difference would have had that effect, but not surprised that it was noticeable.

In the very first post @EmtbChar said "Geared up I’m approx 152lbs". That is ~69kg.

Later above @EmtbChar said "Yep those are the tires. Not sure what they’re currently set at."

I am suggesting ensuring that tyre pressures are set at some 'reasonable' level rather than what they happen to be when the bike was supplied which could be very high.

Perhaps you would care to suggest a 'reasonable' level which would be helpful to @EmtbChar? Thanks.

 

[steve_sordy]

.....................

Perhaps you would care to suggest a 'reasonable' level which would be helpful to the OP? Thanks.

In post #14, I included a link to one of Pink Bike's Tech Tuesday series on how to find your ideal tyre pressure.

 

[Doomanic]

I run about 25psi front and rear until it gets really sloppy. Lower than that and the bike feels vague in the corners.

 

[irie]

In post #14, I included a link to one of Pink Bike's Tech Tuesday series on how to find your ideal tyre pressure.

An over 500 words count technical article on how to find your ideal tyre pressure is simply not helpful to @EmtbChar who is obviously new to eMTBs and is asking for simple help in setting basic front suspension for the first time.

 

[steve_sordy]

An over 500 words count technical article on how to find your ideal tyre pressure is simply not helpful to @EmtbChar who is obviously new to eMTBs and is asking for simple help in setting basic front suspension for the first time.

I found the tyre pressure article a revelation when I first read it. I wish that I had come across it much earlier in my mtb life. It is why I supplied the link. I did not see it as a technical article at all. It is clearly aimed at beginners. I have many times used the lessons I learned from that article to help others by the trailside.

 

[irie]

I found the tyre pressure article a revelation when I first read it. I wish that I had come across it much earlier in my mtb life. It is why I supplied the link. I did not see it as a technical article at all. It is clearly aimed at beginners. I have many times used the lessons I learned from that article to help others by the trailside.

@EmtbChar doesn't need revelations, all she wants is 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with after setting fork sag. She is 5'2"/162 lb.

25psi will do to start with, after that she can experiment further.

 

[EmtbChar]

I googled mtb tire pressure calculator and ended up at the sram site. It recommended 27psi rear, 22.9 front. I’ll try that and see how it goes.

Typo on OP. I weigh 142lbs geared up.

 

[steve_sordy]

@irie I am puzzled by the tone of your last post (#44), so I took the time to review the whole thread.

We appear to agree about suspension because you liked my post #28 on the topic. So it's just tyre pressures.

In your post #29 you quote me from that post (#28) and then list some front and rear tyre specs. I had come to this directly from the alerts notification and I assumed that these were your tyres and that you were asking me for tyre pressures.

My immediate response was to you and it turned up in Post#38, I hadn’t read any intervening posts at that time.

It is then when it started to go wrong. Your post #39 was a bit testy and caught me by surprise, why so hostile? Anyway, it concluded with “Perhaps you would care to suggest a 'reasonable' level which would be helpful to @EmtbChar? Thanks”

It was at this point that I realised we were at cross purposes.

But I now note that you hadn’t suggested a reasonable level to her by this time, other than “Never underestimate the influence of tyre pressure, tyres are an important part of the suspension. Too high pressures can make the front and back ends bouncy as hell. Dropped 2psi out of my tyres, wow what a difference”. (Your post#16)

We then disagreed over whether the PinkBike article on tyre pressure was a technical article or not.

Then you posted #44 where you revealed that you knew what EmtbChar was thinking.

"@EmtbChar doesn't need revelations, all she wants is 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with after setting fork sag. She is 5'2"/162 lb."

At that point, after 43 previous posts, you finally give her your recommendation.
"25psi will do to start with, after that she can experiment further".

What I am unclear about is why you are upset with me for not doing what you hadn’t done either, ie give reasonable tyre pressures to @EmtbChar. I have just looked through every post and she never asked for tyre pressures, although I have noticed that in the last 9 mins she posted that she had looked up a SRAM recco. Post #45

 

[irie]

@irie I am puzzled by the tone of your last post (#44), so I took the time to review the whole thread.

We appear to agree about suspension because you liked my post #28 on the topic. So it's just tyre pressures.

In your post #29 you quote me from that post (#28) and then list some front and rear tyre specs. I had come to this directly from the alerts notification and I assumed that these were your tyres and that you were asking me for tyre pressures.

In all cases I was trying to help the OP, and in post #29 I asked the OP because she said it was a 2022 Levo Carbon:

I think that you should ensure that you have 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with. I don't know what tyres the OP has but would guess 26-30psi is reasonable, but then I've never had a Levo Carbon ...

Edit: is this right?

Front Tire
Butcher, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T9 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 29x2.6"

Rear Tire
Eliminator, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T7 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 27.5x2.6"

To which she replied:

Yep those are the tires. Not sure what they’re currently set at..

The thread is about helping the OP, not about you.

 

[RustyIron]

 

[EmtbChar]

Ok went on a ride today. Here was the setup:
Fork - 20% sag, rebound fully open
Shock - 30% sag, rebound fully open
Tires 18psi (tubeless setup)

Did the lift and drop test and the bike bounced back. With the rebound closed it dropped like a sack of potatoes and stayed there.

Still got bucked around like crazy. Never bottomed out. Forgot my shock pump so I was not able to adjust on the trails. Planning on lowering psi again. I’m assuming lower psi = more sag. At what point is it too much sag? Planning on trying 25% sag fork and 35% sag shock next.

 

[irie]

Ok went on a ride today. Here was the setup:
Fork - 20% sag, rebound fully open
Shock - 30% sag, rebound fully open
Tires 18psi (tubeless setup)

Did the lift and drop test and the bike bounced back. With the rebound closed it dropped like a sack of potatoes and stayed there.

Still got bucked around like crazy. Never bottomed out. Forgot my shock pump so I was not able to adjust on the trails. Planning on lowering psi again. I’m assuming lower psi = more sag. At what point is it too much sag? Planning on trying 25% sag fork and 35% sag shock next.

Yes, lower psi means more sag.

Shock sag 30% is OK, tyre pressures are OK.

20% fork sag is absolutely not enough, try again with at least 30%.

Change one thing at a time, you're getting there.

PS if you have a local shop then get them to remove all "tokens" (if any) from the forks - at 5'2"/142lb (?) you certainly do not want them! Only takes 5 minutes to remove them.

 

[EmtbChar]

No tokens. I ran my fork serial number through the Rockshox website. This is what I have:

 

[TheSnowShark]

Hello,

It's the same fork that I had on my Levo Alloy 2022, and I can tell you that it's not great... since I put a Fox 38 Performance on it's been day and night!

 

[irie]

No tokens. I ran my fork serial number through the Rockshox website. This is what I have:

This is what Trailhead recommends for you (don't use EMTB pressure, it's generally far too high). In any case, you now know what you're doing setting sag, so if you do decide to buy a new fork you know how to do basic set up - none of this messing around is wasted, we've all been through it!

Rebound at 3 clicks is a starting point.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ok went on a ride today. Here was the setup:
Fork - 20% sag, rebound fully open
Shock - 30% sag, rebound fully open
Tires 18psi (tubeless setup)

Did the lift and drop test and the bike bounced back. With the rebound closed it dropped like a sack of potatoes and stayed there.

Still got bucked around like crazy. Never bottomed out. Forgot my shock pump so I was not able to adjust on the trails. Planning on lowering psi again. I’m assuming lower psi = more sag. At what point is it too much sag? Planning on trying 25% sag fork and 35% sag shock next.

With your front and rear sag 10% apart, you are at risk of unbalancing the bike. A number of years ago I had that same difference (25/35) and I was struggling to get up a steep climb. The front wheel was wondering all over the place and I eventually ground to a halt. I tried all the usual remedies to no avail. Then for a reason that I can't recall now, I reset the %sag to the same front and rear (30/30). I flew up that climb the very next time!

 

[EmtbChar]

ok I will try 30/30 today. At 108psi there was barely any sag. I had to drop to 65psi to get 30%. Another question, fork says 160mm travel, but when I lift the bike and extend the fork the measurement is 150mm from top of lower leg to spot to top of upper. Should I be calculating 30% of 160 or 150?

If I can’t get this sorted I have a marzocchi z1 bomber coil in my lostco shopping cart. Currently On sale for $499

 

[RustyIron]

If I can’t get this sorted I have a marzocchi z1 bomber coil in my lostco shopping cart. Currently On sale for $499

You won't do well with the Marzocchi if you can't figure out the adjustments on your existing suspension. First learn to use what you have.

Increase the sag on your fork to 30%. 20% isn't enough.

Full open on your rebound adjustments will make your bike ride like a pogo stick. Set it according to the manufacturers recommendation.

Do those two things, if nothing else.

For someone of your size and aggression level, I'd set the bike up with no volume spacers and the compression settings fully open (I forget if your suspension has separate compression adjustments).

These four things will get you in the ballpark.

 

[EmtbChar]

You won't do well with the Marzocchi if you can't figure out the adjustments on your existing suspension. First learn to use what you have.

Increase the sag on your fork to 30%. 20% isn't enough.

Full open on your rebound adjustments will make your bike ride like a pogo stick. Set it according to the manufacturers recommendation.

Do those two things, if nothing else.

For someone of your size and aggression level, I'd set the bike up with no volume spacers and the compression settings fully open (I forget if your suspension has separate compression adjustments).

These four things will get you in the ballpark.

I figured the coil fork is as easy as it gets. Soft spring for my weight, adjust preload for sag and ride. Reviews say coil is better than air for small bump compliance but air is better for jumps. I ride mainly rooty, chunky trails and little jumps. Not aggressive at all. Higher end air forks add more adjustment knobs that I have no desire to mess with.

Manufactures recommendations gave me only 10% sag so that won't work. I’ve adjusted to 30% and will mess around with the rebound. Only 4 clicks to work with. No volume spacers or compression adjustments on my fork. Hoping 30/30 will fix the issues.

 

[Doomanic]

Increase the sag on your fork to 30%. 20% isn't enough.

Surely that depends on the fork?

My Fox 38s are 15% firm and 20% plush.

 

[COrider]

I had that same fork on my bike before swapping it out. I would recommend dropping it to 30% sag and see how it feels. I struggled to get that fork compliant until I ran more sag than what I am used to running. I was able to get it to a reasonable spot.

I would also play around with your tire pressure more. Are there any quick loops you can do around your car with chatter on it? Try bringing your pump and letting out a couple psi at a time and going for a ride. A properly soft tire can make a much bigger impact on small bumps than a lot of other things. You can also just ride and let out a bit of air front and back. Bring a pump in case you go too far. You don’t want to end up with a flat or a tire so soft you damage a wheel.

Do you know anybody that rides a lot. Get out with someone seasoned on a shake down run and I bet you could get everything situated, or really close in one ride.

One final tip would be make sure you aren’t “death gripping” your bars. Try loosening your grip on the bars and see how it feels. It you can stay loose and relaxed the trail chatter doesn’t transfer through to you the rider as well. Not an easy thing to do when you are learning and the opposite of what you feel like you should do but it makes a huge difference.

Good luck!!

 

[RustyIron]

I figured the coil fork is as easy as it gets. Soft spring for my weight, adjust preload for sag

You're sort of right. The air spring is nice because you can adjust it for free. With a coil spring, riders need to buy a new spring if they choose the wrong one initially, or if they get fat.

A problem with air springs is that they're hard to set up for lighter riders. They're made for average sized men. For many ladies (and small-framed men), the pressure required to get adequate sag is freakishly low.