Levo Gen 3 Do I need to upgrade my suspension or something else?

[EmtbChar]

New to mtb. Picked up a ‘23 levo carbon s2 in April. Only changes are bars trimmed to 760mm, GX AXS and Ergon grips. Geared up I’m approx 152lbs. On small jumps the Rockshox suspension feels nice, have not bottomed out ever but when going over small bumps and chunky stuff I feel like I’m getting bucked around a lot and my arms get a major workout. I’ve adjusted the turtle/rabbit knob on the fork and it hasn’t helped at all. Are there any adjustments to the Rockshox fork or shock that would help? Would upgrading to a Oneup carbon handlebar help or is new suspension needed? TIA for any recs.

 

[irie]

Has the suspension been set up for you, or is that how it came out of the box?

 

[EmtbChar]

Has the suspension been set up for you, or is that how it came out of the box?

I bought a shock pump and I went to the Rockshox website and adjusted it to the recommending settings. I’ve got 30% sag on the shock. Not sure about the fork since there’s no rubber ring or markings on it.

 

[irie]

I bought a shock pump and I went to the Rockshox website and adjusted it to the recommending settings. I’ve got 30% sag on the shock. Not sure about the fork since there’s no rubber ring or markings on it.

You don't need a rubber ring on the fork, just a tape measure and a someone to measure the fork while you're on the bike, and when off the bike hold the front of the bike up to make sure the fork is fully unloaded.

 

[Plummet]

Is it me? or have i completely missed the model of fork/shock we are looking at?

Either way take out a volume spacer on the front fork.

Wind out the compression and speed up the rebound.

 

[EmtbChar]

Sorry, it’s Rockshox 35 silver fork and deluxe select r shock.. I’ll have to google “how to remove a volume spacer”. I’m very new to the mtb world

 

[mustclime]

Imo, remove the 35 and deposit in trash. It’s total junk, the rear shock is workable with the right sag and tokens. My favorite discount fork is the Domain, 38 mm tubes and upgradable with a Zeb 2.1 damper down the road if you want… if you have a sx derailleur, plan on replacing that soon.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

I find the rear Select R unusable with a sag less than 33%, too stiff..like even at 30%. I'm 81kg (about 180lb) so heavier than yourself and it just doesn't want to move.
The front forks..are they silver tk's?....if so then the dials on top of the right leg of the fork is just basically On or Off. For the forks try 40mm sag (after a 10 minute ride) so try 45mm cold unridden (for a 150mm fork add or subtract 3mm for every 10 mm of travel away from 150) and measure again after you've hit some rough ground / dropped off a few kerbs...and measure at least twice after bouncing hard on the forks!

For rebound on the forks, try 3 or 4 clicks from fully closed, there's only 5 (with a 2.5mm Allen key, not the useless knob on the fork..just pull it hard and the cap will come off).
For the rebound on the rear shock (the dial behind the lever) try a couple of clicks past the midpoint from fully closed to fully open .hth.

 

[Dax]

There’s two things at play here, limited setup and base model components.

1. The pressure off the website is a rough guide, use it to get somewhere near then adjust for your riding style. There’s about a million posts on setting sag, but as long as you’re not hitting big jumps and drops, set your forks so you use most of the travel once or twice each ride. Look at the dust marks on the forks to see what you used.

2. Base model components tend to have poor small bump response, it’s possible that even adjusted perfectly, your forks may still feel nasty, particularly for a lighter rider. There’s also a question of if they are working correctly, sometimes forks come from the factory with too much/little grease and need a service to get them moving properly.

 

[Tooks]

Sorry, it’s Rockshox 35 silver fork and deluxe select r shock.. I’ll have to google “how to remove a volume spacer”. I’m very new to the mtb world

Whilst the RS Silver TK R isn’t the best fork in the world, neither is it complete junk and the one that came on my Turbo Levo works pretty well once you’ve followed a basic setup.

First thing I’d do is ignore any recommended pressure on the RS website, following that and then adding on 10psi because ‘it’s an e-bike’ will leave you with a very stiff fork that will feel harsh.

Try adjusting the pressure so that the fork is 30-40% into its travel when you’re stood on the pedals and leaning forward putting some weight on the bars. Don’t worry if that means the pressure is a lot lower than RS recommend.

The only other adjustment you can make without dismantling the fork a bit is rebound, and that is personal preference and the trails you’re riding. I usually set mine about halfway out from closed (or turtle) so there is some rebound damping but it’s not too slow.

Riding chunky stuff your arms will always get a workout, even with a better fork, and for small bumps tyre pressures come into it as well. Assuming you’re running a tubeless setup, running lower pressures will give you a better small bump ride, but you might find running the lower pressures in the fork enables it to start moving more readily over smaller stuff too.

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

As Dax says above, don't trust the Trailhead app for setting pressures/sag. On my Silver TK's the app recommended 135psi (81kg/180lb rider) ..and needless to say the forks hardly moved at all.
A thin cable tie can be used as an impromptu indicator on a stanchion and either remove after setting the pressure or just push it to the top of the stanchion out of the way so it doesn't collect grit and scratch the surface as it moves.
These forks do have a lot of stiction when cold, so that's why I recommend setting them up with a bit more sag when cold, then measuring again when they've been ridden.

 

[irie]

As Dax says above, don't trust the Trailhead app for setting pressures/sag. On my Silver TK's the app recommended 135psi (81kg/180lb rider) ..and needless to say the forks hardly moved at all.
A thin cable tie can be used as an impromptu indicator on a stanchion and either remove after setting the pressure or just push it to the top of the stanchion out of the way so it doesn't collect grit and scratch the surface as it moves.
These forks do have a lot of stiction when cold, so that's why I recommend setting them up with a bit more sag when cold, then measuring again when they've been ridden.

Never thought of that, good idea.

As said above just ignore what Trailhead says, when I first set up my forks I first tried what it said and ended up with solid forks! Very very nasty.

Adjust pressure until your forks work best for you, whatever that pressure is is the right pressure for you.

 

[kneecap]

I'm identical weight as you, & That fork is not very good at all for me same bike. I changed oil in damper side to redline 1.5 weight & turned compression & rebound completely off, helped quite a bit. But, like you still beats me up on fast small bump trail sections. I'm looking for something better, . Problem for reviews is that most are from very fast strong heavy riders, not me. As noted, lowering tire pressure helps as well.Also, our front wheel has large outer bearing cups that are too large for other forks other than rockshox forks, boo...

 

[steve_sordy]

@EmtbChar Read these, they are excellent.

This one is suspension setting from Bike Rumour.

Bikerumor Suspension Setup Series: Full Series PDF - Free Download!

Last week, we wrapped up our six-part suspension setup series. But, we realize it’s not always practical to hunt down the particular session you need,…

bikerumor.com

This is about finding your ideal tyre pressures. It's from PinkBike's tech Tuesday sessions.

Tech Tuesday - Find Your Tire Pressure Sweet Spot - Pinkbike

www.pinkbike.com

 

[Montana St Alum]

I have the RS 35 Gold fork and the RS Deluxe R. Both are 2023 on a Giant Elite 3. At the 50 hour point, I just did a lower leg service plus some cartridge service (YouTube!) and replaced the seals with SKF. I also extended the 150mm of travel to 160 (only because I had it apart, it makes little difference) and removed a small spacer. Running at 25% sag to keep it higher in travel and it rides like a dream now.
Did a quick service on the shock as well - very easy - and removed the spacer in there as well. Again, huge difference. I also run 25% sag on the rear. I'm 157 pounds. Increasing the rebound speed (less damping) can help by allowing the fork/shock to completely extend between hits. Otherwise, both the fork and shock can pack up. and become harsh.

 

[irie]

Two things:

1. Never underestimate the influence of tyre pressure, tyres are an important part of the suspension. Too high pressures can make the front and back ends bouncy as hell. Dropped 2psi out of my tyres, wow what a difference.

2. A poorly set up shock can upset how the forks work by making the bike pitch from end to end so that the forks have to work overtime trying to cope with the rear end generated pitching. Thought my forks were crap, changed the shock, all of a sudden the forks were lovely.

But there is terrain where I know my hands and arms will get hammered ...

 

[Montana St Alum]

Completely agree on the tires and associated pressures. I'm running a 29x2.6 up front and a 27.5x 2.5 on the back. I've lowered pressure to the point that it negatively affects performance and then brought it back up again. Running quite low here in Utah without inserts. I'm also running a One Up oval set of bars up front for the desert chunk which helps. If you really want to make the front smooth out, Fasst Flexx bars are hard to beat, but may be overkill and are heavy/expensive. My wife runs them and loves them. I have swapped them onto my mountain bike before for a Whole Enchilada run (7000' of descending in Moab ledge drops) and they are worth it for that!

 

[EmtbChar]

I'm identical weight as you, & That fork is not very good at all for me same bike. I changed oil in damper side to redline 1.5 weight & turned compression & rebound completely off, helped quite a bit. But, like you still beats me up on fast small bump trail sections. I'm looking for something better, . Problem for reviews is that most are from very fast strong heavy riders, not me. As noted, lowering tire pressure helps as well.Also, our front wheel has large outer bearing cups that are too large for other forks other than rockshox forks, boo...

someone on Reddit same weight as us upgraded the Silver to the Zeb ultimate charger 3 160mm and said it’s great. I’m going to attempt to run lower psi and if it doesn’t work prob pick up a Zeb.

 

[irie]

someone on Reddit same weight as us upgraded the Silver to the Zeb ultimate charger 3 160mm and said it’s great. I’m going to attempt to run lower psi and if it doesn’t work prob pick up a Zeb.

That's exactly what I have but it still requires setting up. The Trailhead recommended air pressure for E-MTB was 78psi which was far too high (Trek Rail 2022 Alloy, 80kg ready to ride) and even the MTB pressure of 68psi was too high. 65psi was just right.

 

[EmtbChar]

I just sat on my bike and checked fork sag.. it only dropped 10mm with the recommended psi! This must be the culprit! Shock spot on at 30%

 

[RustyIron]

someone on Reddit same weight as us upgraded the Silver to the Zeb ultimate charger 3 160mm and said it’s great. I’m going to attempt to run lower psi and if it doesn’t work prob pick up a Zeb.

The new Zeb Ultimate is indeed a kick-ass fork, but you might want to spend some time methodically dialing in your existing fork. As a new MTB rider, your existing fork might serve you well for a while.

It sounds like you're on the right track by setting the sag on your shock and fork. Don't be bothered that your pressure is less than suggested by the manufacturer.

Your original complaint was that it felt as if you were getting "bucked around." Insufficient sag can do this. So can quick rebound. You mentioned the "turtle/rabbit knob." Just between you and me, NEVER say that. It's your "Rebound Adjustment." If you set your rebound too fast, it will want to buck you off like a pogo stick. If rebound is too slow, the suspension will fail to fully extend between fast, consecutive bumps. It will feel like it's beating you to death. Start with the rebound somewhere in the middle, where the chart suggests.

 

[irie]

I just sat on my bike and checked fork sag.. it only dropped 10mm with the recommended psi! This must be the culprit! Shock spot on at 30%

If the forks are 150mm then sag should be something like 35-40mm.

Might as well have solid forks!

The new Zeb Ultimate is indeed a kick-ass fork, but you might want to spend some time methodically dialing in your existing fork. As a new MTB rider, your existing fork might serve you well for a while.

Agree with you.

@EmtbChar You'll have to go through the same process with new forks so might as well learn how to do it now with the current forks.

Edit: what are the front and rear tyres, and what are front and rear pressures?

 

[Doomanic]

I just sat on my bike and checked fork sag.. it only dropped 10mm with the recommended psi! This must be the culprit! Shock spot on at 30%

Are you setting sag while seated? If so, that's contributing to your issue.
You need to be an attack position when checking sag.

 

[irie]

Attack position.

Edit: absolutely not seated.

 

[Montana St Alum]

Attack position.

View attachment 127464

Yep. My attack position varies wildly. Probably not a good thing. I usually get a good initial sag on the shock in the basement. My bars are higher than my seat, so that has an effect as well, for me. Then I just make adjustments to optimize my "Brownian motion" (random, mostly unpredictable motion of a particle) on the trail.

 

[irie]

Yep. My attack position varies wildly. Probably not a good thing. I usually get a good initial sag on the shock in the basement. My bars are higher than my seat, so that has an effect as well, for me. Then I just make adjustments to optimize my "Brownian motion" (random, mostly unpredictable motion of a particle) on the trail.

Because attack position is standing on the pedals with hands on the bars seat height has no influence on attack position.

 

[Dax]

Attack position.

Edit: absolutely not seated.

View attachment 127464

Arms pretty straight for attack position. Attack harder!

 

[steve_sordy]

@EmtbChar Let's not forget that setting % sag is not an end in itself, it is just the starting position. The guidance from the suspension manufacturers is just to give you a starting point. They offer advice on all the dials on your fork, not just the sag.

Once you have set the %sag, go ride the bike and see how it feels, how it supports you and so forth. Whether you like it or not, adjust the rebound setting and the compression damping if you have any to see if it performs better. Then after more riding consider adjusting the sag and start the process again. I know that this sounds to a new starter that you are going round in circles, but it is an iterative process for everyone. Once you run out of ideas, turn your attention to tyre pressures! Once you have been around this loop a few times you will get much quicker (it's called experience) and your starting point will become much closer to your end point.

There is lots on YouTube to assist you.

 

[irie]

.. Once you run out of ideas, turn your attention to tyre pressures!

I think that you should ensure that you have 'reasonable' tyre pressures to start with. I don't know what tyres the OP has but would guess 26-30psi is reasonable, but then I've never had a Levo Carbon ...

Edit: is this right?

Front Tire
Butcher, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T9 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 29x2.6"

Rear Tire
Eliminator, GRID TRAIL casing, GRIPTON® T7 compound, 2Bliss Ready, 27.5x2.6"

 

[Montana St Alum]

Because attack position is standing on the pedals with hands on the bars seat height has no influence on attack position.

Correct. Seated position is not consequential for setting fork sag in the attack position. However, since you are connected at the feet and at the hands, if the bars are 3" higher, it has an effect since your hands, shoulders, chest and upper body are now canted up by that amount and it will move your CG aft and up, taking weight off of the fork and affecting sag.