Dji avinox- Amflow

[Emailsucks98]

Yeah sounds like Bosch could close the gap. I guess the main reason the DGI bike looks so slim is because the battery is integrated, and is above the motor instead of next to it, giving a less chunky BB.

I guess we'll see, as right now it's just theoretical that Bosch can amp their motor up.

I took a look at the Amflow website which shows the batteries in the downtube. Looks like the 600 ends at the upper WB mount, but the 800 goes all the way up to the headtube which will raise the center of gravity some.

With their kink in the seat tube, & relatively long seat tubes in relation to reach, people will be limited in how much drop they can run. For me it would be 175mm at very most, I am used to 210-240mm drop on my current bikes.

Also their stock wheels- 28 spokes, house 30mm rims and hubs, EXO F and EXO+ R tires.

 

[Weeksy]

Most people probably do, yes. Not everyone, but given the choice, I'd bet that the majority of riders would go for a more powerful system given the choice.

Why do the SL/Rise/etc sell so well then ? Or have a read that wrong in places ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Why do the SL/Rise/etc sell so well then ? Or have a read that wrong in places ?

Now you're talking about overall bike weight I think they sell because people like the idea of lighter 18KG-20KG weight bikes compared to a Full Fat 23KG-25KG

Given the choice, if the bike weight was the same, would you go for a 60Nm system or a 120Nm system?

ps the rise / sl type bikes don't sell anywhere near as much as Full Power Ebikes in terms of volume.

 

[Rando_12345]

Will you be releasing a video/podcast talking about the descending performance of the amflow @Rob Rides EMTB ? I think you have the only coil shock equipped one.

I believe there is another round of bikes being announced next week (based on emtb-news embargo calendar), hoping for a bit more competition from the bosch bikes. Shuttle LT should be sweet but out of my budget...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Will you be releasing a video/podcast talking about the descending performance of the amflow @Rob Rides EMTB ? I think you have the only coil shock equipped one.

I believe there is another round of bikes being announced next week (based on emtb-news embargo calendar), hoping for a bit more competition from the bosch bikes. Shuttle LT should be sweet but out of my budget...

Yes - an in depth video on the (stock) Amflow is coming.

 

[Biano44]

Yes - an in depth video on the (stock) Amflow is coming.

@Rob Rides EMTB, quick question if I may, the speed sensor on the back, will it fit a Centre Lock hub do you know?
I called the Service Hotline direct but they didn't know the answer.

 

[electricbogaloo]

The motor weighs .7#s (claimed) less than the new Bosch cx. Hopefully Bosch will offer the race option again which will get that down to .4#.
Batteries watt per kg are the same so no difference there.
Bosch told Crestline the motor was designed with a '3 figure power number planned...' that means more than 99 NMs.
All CF Ebike frames weigh very similar amounts. Size mediums are all about 3300 grams. Differences often come down to longer more aggressive geo and the size being measured.
The rest of the weight differences are in the spec. The Amflow has a short dropper, a non reservoir air shock, Exo tires, 36mm fork, conservative geo, etc.
I belong to a FB group and a guy weighed his at 21.7 kgs. It's light for sure. But also what I would expect for the spec.

Compared to the Gen 4 Bosch bikes the Amflow is very light because the Gen 4 Bosch bikes all weighed 25 kg and more. But the weight isn't revolutionary considering with same spec its probably 0,5

Most people probably do, yes. Not everyone, but I'd bet that the majority of riders would go for a more powerful system, given the choice.

Discounting the power differences there are other benefits: its lighter than Bosch Gen5 & Shimano EP801, has a higher energy density battery, a useful touch screen, a fast charger, built in security, GPS/Tracking, a useful app, and has all that power on tap.

But the power is the main benefit. For years 85Nm has been enough. Then I tried 120Nm.

For me it is about getting back to the top quicker. But not everyone is interested in that.

Get this motor in a 180mm travel Ebike and I'm sold!

I never used the full power of any ebike motor I had. I'm not interested in going fast uphill. Quite the opposite. Also on technical, steep terrain going fast in turbo is the quickest way to crash.

Plus this approach to riding will be the quickest way to get ebikes banned on many trail networks.

Also I'd rather have a completely silent bike instead of one that rattles but has the tourqe of a car that I don't need.

 

[Weeksy]

Given the choice, if the bike weight was the same, would you go for a 60Nm system or a 120Nm system?

Me, 60 thanks. But I'm guessing I'm an outlier on this preference based upon your reply

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Me, 60 thanks. But I'm guessing I'm an outlier on this preference based upon your reply

Interesting, and I totally understand and respect that

I know of a few people who definitely prefer the SL type motor systems, so it's not unusual at all. I just see / hear more folks go for full power, given the choice.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Interesting, and I totally understand and respect that

I know of a few people who definitely prefer the SL type motor systems, so it's not unusual at all. I just see / hear more folks go for full power, given the choice.

I prefer SL.

I owned a full power for 2yrs previously (Norco Sight VLT). I rode that bike about %30 and a propain tyee 70%. When I rode the full power more than half the time, I really felt my climbing fitness decline when I rode my "meat bike" with friends who didn't have ebikes, or on trails where eBikes weren't welcome. The full-power also didn't really burn off stress. I just felt kind of unengaged honestly, like I was piloting a snowmobile.

When I went to the EXe, I found I maintain about 80% of my "meat bike" fitness, even when I rode it full time. Plus I could ride it in mixed groups, or on multi-use trails were eBikes weren't welcome. People don't recognize it as an eBike, and it's easy to forget that it is one. It's also still ridable if the motor or battery die, something which I experienced on both bikes. Recently I rode a big whistler loop (C.N./Bring on the weekend) with two friends on Turbo Levos. I used two batteries and worked hard, but we all finished with <10% battery. I've pulled the battery out and taken it on the lifts.

My partner went from a Turbo Levo to an e-Troy light. At her weight, an SL IS full power.

The dream scenario is a full-power motor with a modular battery system so you can tune it down. But 60nm is plenty for trail climbing. Whatever motor it has, it should have a full length seat tube so we can all run 200+mm droppers, it should be able to take water bottles, no weird hub/headset standards or headset cable routing. eBikes should have clearance so we can hit steep rock rolls without cracking anything motor guards. Ideally a taco/bashguard.

 

[Bengy22]

Me, 60 thanks. But I'm guessing I'm an outlier on this preference based upon your reply

Even if the 120nm system can be configured to only output 60nm in user defined modes? That way if you ever change your mind you can then access the power

 

[steve_sordy]

Even if the 120nm system can be configured to only output 60nm in user defined modes? That way if you ever change your mind you can then access the power

The Shimano EP8 (and I assume 801 as well) can be user-configured for a lower torque as standard, so it is already out there. Other motors may have this facility.

 

[Bengy22]

The Shimano EP8 (and I assume 801 as well) can be user-configured for a lower torque as standard, so it is already out there. Other motors may have this facility.

Not saying they don't or that this is something DJI started, just that I find it weird someone wouldn't choose a motor whos only difference is double the power, especially when you can lower the power to match it if that's what you want

 

[Emailsucks98]

Not saying they don't or that this is something DJI started, just that I find it weird someone wouldn't choose a motor whos only difference is double the power, especially when you can lower the power to match it if that's what you want

It's the bike though. There isn't really currently an option for a <50lb bike with a full-power motor, enduro geometry/parts and 160mm+ travel. Propain Sresh with the enduro build/mullet is close.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Most people probably do, yes. Not everyone, but I'd bet that the majority of riders would go for a more powerful system, given the choice.

Discounting the power differences there are other benefits: its lighter than Bosch Gen5 & Shimano EP801, has a higher energy density battery, a useful touch screen, a fast charger, built in security, GPS/Tracking, a useful app, and has all that power on tap.

But the power is the main benefit. For years 85Nm has been enough. Then I tried 120Nm.

For me it is about getting back to the top quicker. But not everyone is interested in that.

Get this motor in a 180mm travel Ebike and I'm sold!

I've visited spots where it's just a boring wide mostly straight jeep road up, for a rad descent. If I lived in those spots, for sure, I'd prefer a full power. But then again, I'd want a full power DH or at least Enduro bike, not a trail bike!

Where I live it's very rough, hot and undulating, but we only get max about 170'/ mile. The climb trails are just that, trails. Often narrow and on the edge of a gully with loose rocks/ off-cambers/ etc. in every direction. They are most definitely not roads or even straight trails.

Doubling the power of my current Relay doesn't appeal to me and would go entirely unused. FYI, my XL Relay with dual coil, pedals & tools, DH rear rim and heavy tires weighs an actual 44.5#s so it's still a solid 5-7# lighter than the same set up on an Amflow. So just turning down the power to 'have the same thing' doesn't work.

Also, I have a confession, except for the trails where I need my 160mm Relay with dual coil suspension to get down them or when it's super hot, I actually find my pedal bike more engaging and exciting overall.

If e-bikers don't self-regulate, they are going to become electric dirt bikes with cranks to just activate a throttle and are going to get called out for it.

 

[John_A]

All of this is assuming people just buy Eebs for outright power ?

I'd rather know how far it can go at the same power as a Rise in boost on a 60Nm motor... or even less than that.

If your rise is a 540wh battery the Amflow will likely go 35% further than the Rise at the same power, it's just physics. I used to own a Giant advanced Elite and ride almost everywhere in eco, but the power is great when you want it. The big power of the Amflow is certainly a pull for me

 

[TimC7]

sizes, not sku. try again.

How many engine sizes do eMTBs come in? How complicated is an engine vs. how simple is a frame? Makes you think . .

 

[Mikerb]

there is ,as always, a danger of assuming those that contribute to this forum are representative of the wider market for EMTBS. My guess is that 90% of the folk that comprise that market have never even heard of the Amflow bike or DJIs involvement and nor will they until/unless the bikes turn up at their LBS.........or Halfords

 

[emtbeast]

@Rob Rides EMTB, quick question if I may, the speed sensor on the back, will it fit a Centre Lock hub do you know?
I called the Service Hotline direct but they didn't know the answer.

Most probably not... not sure what the clearance back there is

 

[emtbeast]

The only thing there that looks questionable to me is

"Damage caused by using the product for stunts, jumps, and other hazardous actions, or improper use."

And that sort of depends on how they interpret it. Is doing jumps at all considered not covered, or are they protecting themselves from people that try to take it to Red Bull Rampage?

Maybe this clears things up....

 

[whitymon]

there is ,as always, a danger of assuming those that contribute to this forum are representative of the wider market for EMTBS. My guess is that 90% of the folk that comprise that market have never even heard of the Amflow bike or DJIs involvement and nor will they until/unless the bikes turn up at their LBS.........or Halfords

True.
Most people I know think Cube is the only top tier alongside Lapierre.
Most people go to a shop a take what is on shelf or what the lbs want to sell them.

There are tons of different customer but most of them discussing with a LBS recently is that for them the bigger percentage of their user are not really fit, but wish too, way over 50/60, friendly calling them new (e)mtb boomers.

Let's be honest hey have money and there is a good percentage of them that are retired, so money and time! What a luxury these days.

 

[Marshall Willanholly]

How many engine sizes do eMTBs come in? How complicated is an engine vs. how simple is a frame? Makes you think . .

 

[Jeff McD]

I agree with Rob. I'm 80 years old, but in younger years I was a fairly successful cross-country racer who lived to climb steep trails. Maintained the speed into my older years but now it's dropping off. I just wanna be able to ride to the top of the mountain with the other fast guys on Sundays and be able to keep up. As it is I ride my 22 levo in turbo everywhere. Anyone who says you can't control that just doesn't leave it only in Turbo and ride it until you train your reflexes to react quick enough to control it. Still, keeping up with young fast guys takes a toll at my age. Recovery is slower. Wiped out for three days afterwards. The racer boy days are gone and I just wanna enjoy the ride and the thrill of speed.
I am the sole volunteer trail maintenance guy for our local trails which is really heavy work in the heat/humidity where I live. After a 90 minute race pace training ride followed by 3 hours of heavy duty trail work every Thursday and many Sundays, it's exhausting to ride back up our hills to the truck with a 25 pound tool pack even in Turbo. Very tight twisty slippery trails here in the jungle with rain almost every night.
I'm absolutely going to love this new bike!

 

[Astro66]

Here's a concern I have. Have the transmission components been designed for a 120Nm, 1000 watt motor ? Surely SRAM have not used this calculation into the design of their chains, cassettes and derailleurs ?

I love my technical climbing, and use boost mode quite a bit when doing this. But holy cow I go through 12 speed chains.

 

[Biano44]

Here's a concern I have. Have the transmission components been designed for a 120Nm, 1000 watt motor ? Surely SRAM have not used this calculation into the design of their chains, cassettes and derailleurs ?

I love my technical climbing, and use boost mode quite a bit when doing this. But holy cow I go through 12 speed chains.

In an ironic twist, you might be better off using the Shimano Linkglide stuff.

 

[Astro66]

In an ironic twist, you might be better off using the Shimano Linkglide stuff.

If Linkglide came in 12 speed I would. But currently the Linkglide cassettes don't fit the micro-spline hubs. Only HG.

 

[Tilt]

The motor weighs .7#s (claimed) less than the new Bosch cx. Hopefully Bosch will offer the race option again which will get that down to .4#.
Batteries watt per kg are the same so no difference there.
Bosch told Crestline the motor was designed with a '3 figure power number planned...' that means more than 99 NMs.
All CF Ebike frames weigh very similar amounts. Size mediums are all about 3300 grams. Differences often come down to longer more aggressive geo and the size being measured.
The rest of the weight differences are in the spec. The Amflow has a short dropper, a non reservoir air shock, Exo tires, 36mm fork, conservative geo, etc.
I belong to a FB group and a guy weighed his at 21.7 kgs. It's light for sure. But also what I would expect for the spec.

yes 21.7 on the amflow pl carbon 800wh. 20.400kg on the amflow pl pro 800wh

 

[sethimus]

If Linkglide came in 12 speed I would. But currently the Linkglide cassettes don't fit the micro-spline hubs. Only HG.

they come in 11-51. what advantage would you have with a 10-51?

 

[Astro66]

they come in 11-51. what advantage would you have with a 10-51?

None. But I'd have to change my hub to fit an 11 speed cassette. Which means I might as well get a new rear wheel. You'd have the same problem with the Amflow, as it's hub will be an XD hub.

Anyway. Getting a little off topic.

 

[Lexle]

The bike comes first and foremost. The motor is second and not everyone is going to demand such excessive amounts of power. Would I skip over a great Crestline, Transition or even Orbea with the new Bosch to buy a DJI with trail geometry and no stateside support? No f**king way!

IF everything else is equal, the bike, the price, the reliability, the after sales support, then yes, the DJI powered unit is very compelling. But that's a big 'if'.

The primary well-known brands are going to stick with the Bosch (which is getting a power upgrade soon btw, probably before you can even get a DJI in the states) for many commonsense reasons revolving around: not buying from a bike competitor, known warranty service, no risk of impending tariffs, etc.

Seriously, you guys are making too big of a deal of DJI turning up their electric motor a bit. Any of the manufacturers can do the exact same and they will once they are confident of maintaining reliability. German manufacturing/ business culture is more conservative at its core, than Chinese Manufacturing culture.

Man, the Euros are going to hit that 20 kph max speed faster than ever aye?!

we got 25 kph in Europe but are still jealous on your 20 mph in US