Decoy Cassette Problem

[jbetker]

I contacted Yt and they will be sending me a replacement cassette too. I'm with the other guys up on top, though - it seems pretty crummy that I needed to contact them about this problem. If it really is a manufacturing defect, they should have contacted me and every other owner with a cassette built in the defective range. I should not have had to look online to figure out if the crap my bike was doing was "normal".

How many people are going to ride their decoys their entire life thinking they just have a really shitty geartrain? This doesn't do Yt's brand or the Decoy model in particular justice..

 

[06z]

New cassette shifts like a dream!

 

[Mauko]

Sorry to hijack the cassette thread, but wanted to know what chain you guys are using on Decoy and how long the original chain has lasted?

 

[Armeniandave]

So had issues shifting again so I took it back to the Mill and
they replaced the cassette again. Shifts super nice now! These
ethirteen cassettes are a little finicky apparently.

 

[Hasse Birkmose]

Base model with slx cassette.
Chain started skipping under heavy load on the 11t ring.
Mails back and forth with YT
——-
Answer:
The fact that the chain jumps on an e-bike on the smallest sprocket is normal and can happen. It is not a material or manufacturing defect.
The chain engages on the smallest pinion only in a few teeth. With its own power and engine, the chain often slips on a pinion.
Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement

Michael Lifka

——————-
Chain jumping all over the place is apparantly normal - bullshit!
——————-
Changed everything to sram nx - no problems so far....

 

[jbetker]

Base model with slx cassette.
Chain started skipping under heavy load on the 11t ring.
Mails back and forth with YT
——-
Answer:
The fact that the chain jumps on an e-bike on the smallest sprocket is normal and can happen. It is not a material or manufacturing defect.
The chain engages on the smallest pinion only in a few teeth. With its own power and engine, the chain often slips on a pinion.
Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement

Michael Lifka

——————-
Chain jumping all over the place is apparantly normal - bullshit!
——————-
Changed everything to sram nx - no problems so far....

So this is a bit of a different problem than the one I was advocating earlier. I still see this too - e.g. my chain will occasionally skip in gears 8-11 under extremely high load. This is either "by design" or a design flaw with the e*thirteen cassette that comes with the bike and I doubt you'll get it fixed with a new cassette.

 

[squeegee]

E13 TSR cassette on my Decoy skips all over the place, especially under load when the chain is climbing the gears, mainly from descents to sudden steep climbs or any sudden need to downshift quickly. I have a warranty claim in, they are only going to replace the lower steel section so we'll see.

Never had this issue on regular bike though, (hard shifts from high to low), 11 spd SRAM XO1,
2 yrs old 5 chains and 2 replacement lowest gear sprockets still shifts SUPER smooth.

600 miles on my E13 cassette and it skips just as bad as new. Chain not even to 0.5 wear marker yet. Shifts to 9T sprocket 50% of the time, my chain also runs rough/skips in 9T when I can actually get it to shift to that gear.

Hoping warranty will fix, if not I'm going to trash and replace with either:

SRAM XO1 + Wolftooth 46T giant cog

or
12spd upgrade kit
E*Thirteen

But, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...shame on me

 

[seamarsh]

E13 TSR cassette on my Decoy skips all over the place, especially under load when the chain is climbing the gears, mainly from descents to sudden steep climbs or any sudden need to downshift quickly. I have a warranty claim in, they are only going to replace the lower steel section so we'll see.

Never had this issue on regular bike though, (hard shifts from high to low), 11 spd SRAM XO1,
2 yrs old 5 chains and 2 replacement lowest gear sprockets still shifts SUPER smooth.

600 miles on my E13 cassette and it skips just as bad as new. Chain not even to 0.5 wear marker yet. Shifts to 9T sprocket 50% of the time, my chain also runs rough/skips in 9T when I can actually get it to shift to that gear.

Hoping warranty will fix, if not I'm going to trash and replace with either:

SRAM XO1 + Wolftooth 46T giant cog

or
12spd upgrade kit
E*Thirteen

But, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...shame on me

Do yourself a favor and just buy a nx sram cassette or buy shimano driver and a xt cassette cheap and bullet proof.

They should not have specced ethirteen cassettes on ebikes.. they are not great and finicky.. I use one on my acoustic bike had to be replaced under warranty, when it wears out I'm going shimano as its cheap and reliable.. 9th cog on thirteen never runs smoothly anyways.

If you do run ethirteen cassette seems to work best with sram chain in my experience.

 

[06z]

My replacement E-13 has been great. No more issues.

 

[squeegee]

Do yourself a favor and just buy a nx sram cassette or buy shimano driver and a xt cassette cheap and bullet proof.

They should not have specced ethirteen cassettes on ebikes.. they are not great and finicky.. I use one on my acoustic bike had to be replaced under warranty, when it wears out I'm going shimano as its cheap and reliable.. 9th cog on thirteen never runs smoothly anyways.

If you do run ethirteen cassette seems to work best with sram chain in my experience.

The only issue I'd have with the NX cassette is the largest cog @ 42T. I really like having the 46T for steeps and why I'd go XO1 because you can change the lowest gear and get 10/46T. HG driver + XT cassette would be good but probably close in price to just getting XO1 and keeping the XD driver, certainly less trouble.

Yea, I couldn't recommend E13 cassettes, even before the ebike I'd always heard they were troublesome. Very tempting with 9/46 but most would say stick to the big S's.

 

[squeegee]

My replacement E-13 has been great. No more issues.

Hopefully true, would rather not pay twice for a cassette on my new bike

 

[seamarsh]

The only issue I'd have with the NX cassette is the largest cog @ 42T. I really like having the 46T for steeps and why I'd go XO1 because you can change the lowest gear and get 10/46T. HG driver + XT cassette would be good but probably close in price to just getting XO1 and keeping the XD driver, certainly less trouble.

Yea, I couldn't recommend E13 cassettes, even before the ebike I'd always heard they were troublesome. Very tempting with 9/46 but most would say stick to the big S's.

Go shimano 11-46 or sun race 11-46.

The 9th gear on trs cassettes is so small you get chain rap and it feels rough.

42 should be totally fine on ebike though.. no?

 

[squeegee]

Go shimano 11-46 or sun race 11-46.

The 9th gear on trs cassettes is so small you get chain rap and it feels rough.

42 should be totally fine on ebike though.. no?

Maybe/maybe not depending. I run a 34T chainring and actually need the 46T for some climbs. I could drop to a 32T and then use an NX but would also sacrifice top end which is nice for paved connection trails to my local spot. I could swap the driver but that's a pain in the ass job.

XO1 and a 46t low gear would give me 10/46T which is only 1 tooth off of E13's cassette in terms of total range. Sram's 10T has never run rough for me like the 9T e13.

I hope the warranty cassette works out. I don't care that much about the 9T being a little rough, I do care when my chain goes berserk when I try to transition from a descent to a climb.

 

[jbetker]

It does figure that a cassette that costs more than twice as much as the Sunrace performs worse. I hope the E*thirteen cassette is at least more durable, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[seamarsh]

It does figure that a cassette that costs more than twice as much as the Sunrace performs worse. I hope the E*thirteen cassette is at least more durable, but I'm not holding my breath.

Unless this an ebike specific one the trs cassettes are among the least durable in my experience.. but they are lighter weight and have more range.. obviously.

 

[squeegee]

It does figure that a cassette that costs more than twice as much as the Sunrace performs worse. I hope the E*thirteen cassette is at least more durable, but I'm not holding my breath.

What I have never understood is how much cassettes have soared in price since sram starting machining theirs, I mean I get it machining costs more but 2-3X the price of XT or Sunrace?

e13 used to be the shit for chain guides back in the day, guess drivetrain is a little more complicated to get right. I wouldn't put much stock in the cassette lasting all that long. At least on a sram cassette 90% of it is steel and on some models the low gear can be replaced so they can go and go if you check your chain frequently.

The TRS is almost half alloy, so when that low gear wears out you're buying half of a new cassette. Pay now or pay later I guess.

 

[06z]

The TRS is almost half alloy, so when that low gear wears out you're buying half of a new cassette. Pay now or pay later I guess.

The E bike TRS is only aluminum for the 46t and the rest is steel.
From the manufacturer-
"Our Gen2 TRS Plus Cassette now has 1 aluminum cogs and 10 steel cogs for dramatically increased strength and long-term durability. This makes it our first E*Spec rated cassette, and suitable for e-bike use."

They had a batch that were machined incorrectly and after a replacement of the 10 steel cogs I have had no more problems.

 

[squeegee]

The E bike TRS is only aluminum for the 46t and the rest is steel.
From the manufacturer-
"Our Gen2 TRS Plus Cassette now has 1 aluminum cogs and 10 steel cogs for dramatically increased strength and long-term durability. This makes it our first E*Spec rated cassette, and suitable for e-bike use."

They had a batch that were machined incorrectly and after a replacement of the 10 steel cogs I have had no more problems.

Thanks for that tidbit, I thought it was more than just the top cog that would be replaced after it wears out (last Gen I assume), still haven't taken my cassette of to see where it separates but I'll assume same as yours. I wonder how much the alloy cog is by itself? That's what wears out first on my regular bike. Wolftooth giant cogs are about $90 which on a $300 cassette is worth buying rather than a new one cassette (for sram).

Hoping to get the same results as you once I receive it.

 

[jbetker]

The largest (aluminum) cog is all by itself and mounts directly to the hub. The rest of the (steel) cogs are one piece and all latch on to the large aluminum cog.

On my past e-bikes I have always worn out the upper gears first since I spend so much time in them, and on this cassette it is impossible to replace them individually.

 

[Hol47]

Having shifting issues on my brand new CF Pro.
Wouldn't shift in to smallest cog or the largest cog. After messing with it for an hour or two I can get it to change in to either the top or bottom but not both. It also skips a gear in the middle of the cassette weirdly.

I've emailed YT so hopefully they can replace the cassette under warranty. Why are they still sending these out with faulty cassettes?!

 

[jbetker]

Having shifting issues on my brand new CF Pro.
Wouldn't shift in to smallest cog or the largest cog. After messing with it for an hour or two I can get it to change in to either the top or bottom but not both. It also skips a gear in the middle of the cassette weirdly.

I've emailed YT so hopefully they can replace the cassette under warranty. Why are they still sending these out with faulty cassettes?!

When they shipped me a replacement, it had the exact same product ID stamped on it as the one it replaced. My guess is they still have not fixed whatever the issue is on these faulty cassettes. It's pretty maddening that YT hasn't at least set up some sort of factory check for the problem. It was easy to see from the first time I pedaled the bike after assembly.

 

[Hol47]

When they shipped me a replacement, it had the exact same product ID stamped on it as the one it replaced. My guess is they still have not fixed whatever the issue is on these faulty cassettes. It's pretty maddening that YT hasn't at least set up some sort of factory check for the problem. It was easy to see from the first time I pedaled the bike after assembly.

Did your replacement fix the issue? Its crazy they don't check. Do they even fully assemble the bike to test before shipping it?

 

[squeegee]

Did your replacement fix the issue? Its crazy they don't check. Do they even fully assemble the bike to test before shipping it?

I just installed a replacement E13 cassette on mine, first ride yesterday. Got mine from E13 directly. While the verdict is still out on shifting, I can say the shifts are crisper but still experienced some skipping when chain is climbing the cassette. I have not checked whether I can hit the 9T cog since I don't use it that much but no problems getting into 46T.

I'll report back when I've got more time on it. The skipping is super annoying and I can't live with that long term.

 

[06z]

I have over 100 miles on my replacement and when it is setup correctly (DI2) , it works awesome.

 

[Gemini2k]

E13 TSR cassette on my Decoy skips all over the place, especially under load when the chain is climbing the gears, mainly from descents to sudden steep climbs or any sudden need to downshift quickly.

You shouldn't be shifting gears while under high load and low cadence on an e-bike. No cassette is going to work well in those conditions. You just need to shift better,.

 

[squeegee]

You shouldn't be shifting gears while under high load and low cadence on an e-bike. No cassette is going to work well in those conditions. You just need to shift better,.

Yea right, but then why on a regular bike when making same transitions on a SRAM cassette do I not experience the same skipping? Speed or timing maybe but I'm talking about downs to sudden ups so speed isn't that different ebike vs. acoustic when shifting occurs. We all see sudden climbs when riding and I don't think it all boils down to just "proper shifting". I should be able to jam up the cassette without the chain going berserk as long as I'm moving/pedaling.

I just installed the warranty E13 cassette so I'll reserve judging it until I put some real miles on it.

My original E13 cassette definitely had a skipping problem, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Gemini2k]

Yea right, but then why on a regular bike when making same transitions on a SRAM cassette do I not experience the same skipping? Speed or timing maybe but I'm talking about downs to sudden ups so speed isn't that different ebike vs. acoustic when shifting occurs. We all see sudden climbs when riding and I don't think it all boils down to just "proper shifting". I should be able to jam up the cassette without the chain going berserk as long as I'm moving/pedaling.

I just installed the warranty E13 cassette so I'll reserve judging it until I put some real miles on it.

My original E13 cassette definitely had a skipping problem, no doubt in my mind.

Because an e-bike is putting out 2-3x the power?

Yes it does boil down to proper shifting. That's why they are starting to spec e-bikes with shifters that can only do 1 gear at a time, an attempt to reign in poor shifting. Everyone I know who rides an e-bike and is an experienced rider who knows how to shift doesn't have any problems, and this is across a wide range of drivetrain setups.

 

[squeegee]

Because an e-bike is putting out 2-3x the power?

Yes it does boil down to proper shifting. That's why they are starting to spec e-bikes with shifters that can only do 1 gear at a time, an attempt to reign in poor shifting. Everyone I know who rides an e-bike and is an experienced rider who knows how to shift doesn't have any problems, and this is across a wide range of drivetrain setups.

Well, guess I'll just have to find out the hard way, it's not like I started riding yesterday, hardly. I'm not sure if you're riding the same set up as I am but the E13 on my decoy has not been a great shifting set up. It improved vastly when I took off the Shimano stuff that came on it, XT. Then when the skipping persisted I warrantied the cassette because the problem albeit improved was still there. We'll see and I get the one gear at a time theory even though that is a band aid IMO because the situation where you need to shift multiple gears is always going to an issue. In other words its going to come up no matter what. Internally geared whatever hub or motor may be the answer to that.

I don't know, it seems like you are saying just don't shift multiple gears at a time because that's not "proper", I don't think that is going to enhance my riding experience.

 

[Gemini2k]

Well, guess I'll just have to find out the hard way, it's not like I started riding yesterday, hardly. I'm not sure if you're riding the same set up as I am but the E13 on my decoy has not been a great shifting set up.

I'm running the stock setup on my Decoy race (or whatever the mid spec level is). e13 cassette, Shimano chain, Shimano shifter/derail. It definitely doesn't shift as smooth as a Shimano cassette, but more than good enough for an e-MTB.

It improved vastly when I took off the Shimano stuff that came on it, XT.

I've got a second e-bike (turbo Vado) with a nearly identical setup as the decoy, except with a Shimano cassette. 2k hard miles and no issues so far.

I don't know, it seems like you are saying just don't shift multiple gears at a time because that's not "proper", I don't think that is going to enhance my riding experience.

Shifting multiple gears at once is fine, as long as it's not under load. I do it all the time. My g/f does it under load all the time (because she's an inexperienced rider)and it totally f's up her drivetrain (similar 11 Spd all Shimano setup): faster wear, actually seizing up in the moment, dropping chains, etc.

 

[squeegee]

Shifting multiple gears at once is fine, as long as it's not under load. I do it all the time. My g/f does it under load all the time (because she's an inexperienced rider)and it totally f's up her drivetrain (similar 11 Spd all Shimano setup): faster wear, actually seizing up in the moment, dropping chains, etc.

I think this might be where the confusion is, my skipping issue on first cassette came under regular pedaling "load", not high load or irregular load, but normal speeds where the chain shouldn't go berserk and multiple shifts are normal. As of now I have 2 rides on the new cassette, it seems better, crisper but I'm a skeptic, I still don't think it measures up to my regular bike's SRAM cassette. Can I live with it? Probably, but will see over time. I am used to a very precise and consistent drivetrain that's pretty much flawless when not broken or super dirty and this drivetrain just isn't that even when spotlessly clean and freshly lubed. Decoy Pro model here with X1 shifter, XO1 derailleur, E13 cassette, stock chain/chainring.