Creaking/clicking from motor area

[Link]

Hi All,

I have a creak/click from around the motor/BB area, mainly from load (doesn't need to be really heavy load), it seems to be left side related, i.e when I push on the left pedal. I can invoke the noise by push down with my hand on the left pedal when the crank is at the bottom of the stroke, seems like something is flexing and creaking. It's def not the pedals, the cranks are tight, same for the lock ring (although I can only check the lock ring with my finger or a screw driver in the grooves, I don't have the proper tool). I am thinking I can remove the motor covers and check the motor bolts etc, any other ideas ?.

 

[Tony.OK]

I was chasing a load induced creak for a while, could have sworn it was from motor area but turned out to be the rear wheel hub, after taking wheel off for other reason it clicked as I took tension off axle.....creak vanished after that. Something with the hub must've not been sitting quite right.

 

[RickBullotta]

The main motor mount bolts are usually visible - torque them to spec. Don't be so certain that it isn't the cranks though. That was the source of my noise. And I've seen suspension pivot noises manifest themselves when pushing down like that also. Could be a myriad of things as I'm sure you're well aware. I always prefer to mitigate the least expensive stuff first.

 

[Link]

indeed, i found that one motor bolt was loose, so backed them all off and retorqued them all to make sure the alignment was ok, now i cannot reproduce the creaking by pushing on the pedal with my hand, however i am reserving declaring a fix until i ride it and be sure. As you say i am not ruling out the cranks for even the pedals, however i have just changed pedals and the noise carried over, but again, stranger things happen. I had a carbon XC bike years back which made a creaking noise and turned out to be a cracked frame around the BB !, that was after we changed near enough everything on it !, Hopefully its not that scale of problem

 

[Yos]

Verify that all the bolts are all the way in and not protruding. some times the motor metal holding bar not parallel to the frame seat or not aligned causing the bolt to get in with an angle.

 

[JMD]

I had your symptoms.
It was a loose motor-frame mounting plate (4 in total on motor using 8 bolts)

TS25 5 point star tamper proof.

 

[Link]

I had your symptoms.
It was a loose motor-frame mounting plate (4 in total on motor using 8 bolts)

TS25 5 point star tamper proof.

Which bolts are those ?, I checked and tightened these 6.

 

[JMD]

Which bolts are those ?, I checked and tightened these 6.

View attachment 49166

The number 59 arrow points to 1 of the mounting plates.
The frame doesn't bolt directly to motor with the 6 TX40 bolts

 

[JMD]

The number 59 arrow points to 1 of the mounting plates.
The frame doesn't bolt directly to motor with the 6 TX40 bolts

 

[Link]

View attachment 49168

So did you have to remove the motor to get to and tighten the plates ?

 

[JMD]

So did you have to remove the motor to get to and tighten the plates ?

Yup,
Take off bash guard
Remove 6 TX40 bolts
Lift up motor, no need to unplug any wiring
1 of the aluminium plates was loose, I could move the screws with my fingers.
Luckily I caught it before it damaged the plate severely.
& A dab of paint on all 8 bolt heads to see at a glance if bolts move again

 

[JMD]

Yup,
Take off bash guard
Remove 6 TX40 bolts
Lift up motor, no need to unplug any wiring
1 of the aluminium plates was loose, I could move the screws with my fingers.
Luckily I caught it before it damaged the plate severely.
& A dab of paint on all 8 bolt heads to see at a glance if bolts move again

Only M5 thread so just screwdriver tight, don't damage thread on motor casing.
Didn't have locktite on bolts originally, so didn't use any kept it standard.
Possibly because motor heat could 'unlock' the locktite.

The 6 TX40 bolts do have blue/medium locktite on as standard.

 

[Link]

Great, thanks for the info. One of the 6 external bolts was loose so will try it again and see if that got it. If not I'll do what you did. I am surprised they don't loctite them in as standard, seems like any area that could well benefit.

 

[Link]

I had your symptoms.
It was a loose motor-frame mounting plate (4 in total on motor using 8 bolts)

TS25 5 point star tamper proof.

Ok, so the original clicking has gone, but then at the end of the ride I got another creak ! ?, Same place or origin, the motor/bottom bracket. I have done as you adviced to check those bracket bolts but my cheap tamper proof torx have a too small hole in them so I cannot check them. Ordered a set for tomorrow. Will check they are tight. Failing that I am going to put a bit of copper slip into the mating surface between the mounting plate and the ally plate in the frame. There will always be a small amount of movement so could be the cold which makes the small amount of flex make a noise. The bike was silent for 2 hours into the ride than after a few muddy puddles and 3 hours of zero degree weather it started creaking. Fortunately I can make it creak by pushing on the crank arm so should know when I have fixed it. Oddly after I washed the bike and gave it a quick test ride the creak went away, so it's def a small amount of movement induced by the cold.

Did you put extra Loctite on the 6 motor bolts ?, They have some on them from factory

 

[JMD]

Ok, so the original clicking has gone, but then at the end of the ride I got another creak ! ?, Same place or origin, the motor/bottom bracket. I have done as you adviced to check those bracket bolts but my cheap tamper proof torx have a too small hole in them so I cannot check them. Ordered a set for tomorrow. Will check they are tight. Failing that I am going to put a bit of copper slip into the mating surface between the mounting plate and the ally plate in the frame. There will always be a small amount of movement so could be the cold which makes the small amount of flex make a noise. The bike was silent for 2 hours into the ride than after a few muddy puddles and 3 hours of zero degree weather it started creaking. Fortunately I can make it creak by pushing on the crank arm so should know when I have fixed it. Oddly after I washed the bike and gave it a quick test ride the creak went away, so it's def a small amount of movement induced by the cold.

Did you put extra Loctite on the 6 motor bolts ?, They have some on them from factory

I did put blue/medium locktite on the 6 TX40 bolts (that's what's on them from new)

The 8 bracket to motor bolts aren't torx tamper proof.
They are TS25 5 point star tamper proof.
Torx are 6 point.

One of my mounting plates was so loose I could move it and the bolts by hand.
If this is your issue you shouldn't need the tool to diagnose this.

 

[Link]

I did put blue/medium locktite on the 6 TX40 bolts (that's what's on them from new)

The 8 bracket to motor bolts aren't torx tamper proof.
They are TS25 5 point star tamper proof.
Torx are 6 point.

One of my mounting plates was so loose I could move it and the bolts by hand.
If this is your issue you shouldn't need the tool to diagnose this.

Thanks !, just realised and cancelled my order for the Torx. I think i will do as you say and check the bolts with my fingers and assume they are tight if they don't budge.

 

[ddbros]

Had the same creak on my Rail 9.7, turned out to be the main lower pivot. Figured it out by putting a drop of oil on each side, suddenly gone. Simple test to avoid tearing apart the motor mounts.

 

[Link]

Had the same creak on my Rail 9.7, turned out to be the main lower pivot. Figured it out by putting a drop of oil on each side, suddenly gone. Simple test to avoid tearing apart the motor mounts.

you put a drop down the side of each bearing in the linkage ?

 

[ddbros]

Oil on each side of the chain stay pivot points. The gap between the frame and chain stay. There are bearings in there, but I'm guessing dirt gets in and causes the creak. I noticed the creak went away one time after going through a some puddles, so you could try pouring some water on the joints and see if it goes away. The drop of oil has kept it away.

The carbon frame is really hard to tell where the creak is actually coming from. I had several people tell me to check the headset bearing and make sure it's greased well. Did it with no change. Yeah, I checked all the motor bolts too (and cranks).

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Oil on each side of the chain stay pivot points. The gap between the frame and chain stay. There are bearings in there, but I'm guessing dirt gets in and causes the creak. I noticed the creak went away one time after going through a some puddles, so you could try pouring some water on the joints and see if it goes away. The drop of oil has kept it away.

The carbon frame is really hard to tell where the creak is actually coming from. I had several people tell me to check the headset bearing and make sure it's greased well. Did it with no change. Yeah, I checked all the motor bolts too (and cranks).

One at a time to find the creak or oiled them all together? I've got one that sounds like from in front of the bottom bracket - like on the down tube - bloody annoying trying to find.
Once you found the source of the noise did you just leave it at that with a tad of oil or replace the bearing?

 

[Philly G]

@Doug Stampfer I have a creak from the downtube area. It's actually the battery, there's a small amount of movement at the top. Pretty sure there wasn't that much movement when I first did the battery alignment procedure. But now it moves a little when I push on it, makes the exact same creaking noise I'm hearing on my rides. Not quite sure how to fix it since the latch itself still seems to be firmly in place.

 

[Link]

Oil on each side of the chain stay pivot points. The gap between the frame and chain stay. There are bearings in there, but I'm guessing dirt gets in and causes the creak. I noticed the creak went away one time after going through a some puddles, so you could try pouring some water on the joints and see if it goes away. The drop of oil has kept it away.

The carbon frame is really hard to tell where the creak is actually coming from. I had several people tell me to check the headset bearing and make sure it's greased well. Did it with no change. Yeah, I checked all the motor bolts too (and cranks).

You can isolate if it's suspension related by pressing down on the seat to move the suspension and listen for the noise, mine only came when flexing the crank arms but not when I pushed down on the seat. I am sure I will get a suspension creak at some point, just not at the moment ?

 

[Doug Stampfer]

@Doug Stampfer I have a creak from the downtube area. It's actually the battery, there's a small amount of movement at the top. Pretty sure there wasn't that much movement when I first did the battery alignment procedure. But now it moves a little when I push on it, makes the exact same creaking noise I'm hearing on my rides. Not quite sure how to fix it since the latch itself still seems to be firmly in place.

I'll try a ride without the battery & see if it is still there. I've tried pushing down & twisting from all angles but hard to get a consistent creak stationary.

 

[Link]

Mine creaks from battery connector area without the battery in, thankfully it's ok when the battery is fitted. You will probably find just loosening and re tightening the battery connector will do the trick as it's prob under tension somehow

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Rode with the battery out & still creaking. In fact I usually ride with music plugged in & didn't today - jeez what a bloody racket- I don't think there was one component on my bike that wasn't bloody creaking! I know now why people I am following pull off the track & wait 5 minutes till I go past before following me.

 

[Link]

You will probably find that it's only one or two things which are creaking it just resonates through the frame. It is very annoying, I am super fussy about creaks and rattles on bikes and in cars. Try and isolate it, does it only do it when pedaling, sitting on the seat, motor on, motor off, when you bounce the suspension up and down

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Yes to all of the above
It's quite hard to isolate at the moment. I'll try a drop of oil on each bearing on at a time & see if they stop. Sometimes they start halfway through a climb. I really need someone to run alongside listening to the bike.

 

[ddbros]

My creak in the main pivot only showed up when I put pressure on the pedals, it wasn't there when I just pushed on the seat. It seems like putting force through the pedals makes the creak more likely to show itself. Oiling the pivots one time resolved it. I should probably take it apart this winter and clean/re-grease it.

I also had a little rattle from the battery. I put a piece of high density foam on the inside of the frame to put some added pressure on the latch. I have to put a little extra effort in to get it latched now, but the rattle is gone.

 

[Link]

My creak in the main pivot only showed up when I put pressure on the pedals, it wasn't there when I just pushed on the seat. It seems like putting force through the pedals makes the creak more likely to show itself. Oiling the pivots one time resolved it. I should probably take it apart this winter and clean/re-grease it.

I also had a little rattle from the battery. I put a piece of high density foam on the inside of the frame to put some added pressure on the latch. I have to put a little extra effort in to get it latched now, but the rattle is gone.

Interesting, i guess mud etc from the back tire does get thrown all over that area so can easily get something stuck. I will def check that. Quick blast of compressed air after washing might help

 

[AKAKTM]

Having had a couple of Levo models, many traditional mountain bikes and my current Rail 9.9AXS, I've chased more squeaks on this Rail than any bike since my 2019 Fuel EX. The bash/skid plate mounts are prone to creaking as are the motor mounts. I've removed bolts, re-torqued, greased, disassembled, reassembled and no matter what I do I get significant creaks within 30 - 40 miles at the most from each lengthy session of trying to stop them. I've also left it at the dealer for several days and they have also gone through it. Creak always comes back.

I really don't like noisy bikes, but between the persistent creaks and rattling Bosch Gen 4 motor I've just decided that the Rail is just a noisy bike. It will never be quiet. Perhaps the aluminum models are better. I am thankful that my Trek dealer is speedy, efficient and very helpful though!

Between all the noises, too frequent 504 codes and carbon wheels (spokes) that haven't held up nearly as well as I'd expect, I am eager to try a new eMTB. Don't get me wrong, the Rail has about the best all-around geometry and fit for my style. I really like the way it feels and handles, but there are just too many quality and related issues for me. I'm hoping Specialized evolves the Levo and/or Kenevo to more contemporary and progressive geometry as they have the Stumpjumper Evo and Enduro. The Brose seems to finally be reliable and with the 700W battery, I expect the next generation Specialized bikes will be very good. Who knows...over the next year I expect to see other exciting new options as well. My best advice is either learn to ignore the noises or get some tunes piped in so you don't hear them!