Converting to Tubeless, Personal Experience

[softtailcruiser]

Hello!

Just in case anyone is interested in converting to tubeless, but hasn’t yet taken the plunge, I thought I’d share my experience. If you’re already a seasoned tubeless rider, then I apologise, and you can move on to another post with no shame, or alternatively add your tuppen’worth of experience below.

To put it into context, I am commuting on a full-sus eMTB. My route is a combination of canal towpaths, which vary from almost asphalt to single-track and mud. These invariably have hawthorn hedges next to them, which cause inevitable problems when they are cut which tends to happen in the winter. I therefore get lots of thorn punctures and on one ride a few years ago I stopped to fix one and actually had five! So that bike got some Schwalbe Marathons and I haven’t had a puncture on it since. I have had the same experience with my gravel bike, and once again I have improved my boots. So far so good.

So this new ebike needed something doing, as on one in three rides so far I have had a thorn puncture. This weekend I took the plunge, and got hold of some of the liquid gunk from Amazon and had a go at doing it myself. I watched quite a few youtube vids of people doing it, and the best were from GMBN. All pretty straightforward.

I’ll not go into full detail here apart from pointing out a few things which may help if you’re new to this like me, and want to avoid too many errors.

Firstly, my rims and tyres were already set up for tubeless when I got the bike, and there were a couple of valves plus spare rim tape (which I didn’t use) in the box. I therefore only needed the gunk. I chose Muc-Off as I like the smell! I poured it straight in to the tyre rather than using a syringe and had no problems with this, although the potential for mess is definitely there!

Secondly, one of the wheels went on fine and sealed straight away. I used a CO2 cylinder to pop the tyre onto the rim initially and then a track pump to get it up to 40psi.

Thirdly, the rear tyre was much more of a problem as I had air leaking around the valve stem. On further research, this seems to normally happen when the rim tape is not sealing properly, apparently, and after a few tries to pump it up and see whether the gunk would seal any gaps, I gave up and started again.

This was a messy old business, but nothing fatal - unless you are a roll of kitchen towel, in which case it was utter carnage. Once all cleaned up I examined my rim tape again, and there was a small scuffed patch / hole in it where I think I’d caught it with a metal tyre lever during a previous tube puncture repair. The rim itself showed some scratches next to it too. I’m using plastic tyre levers now. To cover this, I stuck a 30cm x 25mm strip of Gorilla tape over the top of the rim tape, 15cm eaither side of the worrisome patch.

I also gave a couple of quarter tightens to the valve collar thing with pliers, too, to improve the seal there. When I pumped it all up again (I did a dry run first because I’m learning fast!) this leak had gone. Then did the final gunk-fill and inflate. 8 hours later plus a couple of miles round the lanes, and it is still up. Result!

So apart from a bit of mess and subsequent cleaning up, I can say it was a success, and if you are a newbie to all of this and somewhat intimidated by tubeless, then don’t be, and give it a go.

Cheers!

Si.

 

[Mad Mark]

I had the same sort of problems.
You do find if you take the bike out for a ride it normally seals

Poor old kitchen towel

 

[hiro]

Hello!

Just in case anyone is interested in converting to tubeless, but hasn’t yet taken the plunge, I thought I’d share my experience. If you’re already a seasoned tubeless rider, then I apologise, and you can move on to another post with no shame, or alternatively add your tuppen’worth of experience below.

To put it into context, I am commuting on a full-sus eMTB. My route is a combination of canal towpaths, which vary from almost asphalt to single-track and mud. These invariably have hawthorn hedges next to them, which cause inevitable problems when they are cut which tends to happen in the winter. I therefore get lots of thorn punctures and on one ride a few years ago I stopped to fix one and actually had five! So that bike got some Schwalbe Marathons and I haven’t had a puncture on it since. I have had the same experience with my gravel bike, and once again I have improved my boots. So far so good.

So this new ebike needed something doing, as on one in three rides so far I have had a thorn puncture. This weekend I took the plunge, and got hold of some of the liquid gunk from Amazon and had a go at doing it myself. I watched quite a few youtube vids of people doing it, and the best were from GMBN. All pretty straightforward.

I’ll not go into full detail here apart from pointing out a few things which may help if you’re new to this like me, and want to avoid too many errors.

Firstly, my rims and tyres were already set up for tubeless when I got the bike, and there were a couple of valves plus spare rim tape (which I didn’t use) in the box. I therefore only needed the gunk. I chose Muc-Off as I like the smell! I poured it straight in to the tyre rather than using a syringe and had no problems with this, although the potential for mess is definitely there!

Secondly, one of the wheels went on fine and sealed straight away. I used a CO2 cylinder to pop the tyre onto the rim initially and then a track pump to get it up to 40psi.

Thirdly, the rear tyre was much more of a problem as I had air leaking around the valve stem. On further research, this seems to normally happen when the rim tape is not sealing properly, apparently, and after a few tries to pump it up and see whether the gunk would seal any gaps, I gave up and started again.

This was a messy old business, but nothing fatal - unless you are a roll of kitchen towel, in which case it was utter carnage. Once all cleaned up I examined my rim tape again, and there was a small scuffed patch / hole in it where I think I’d caught it with a metal tyre lever during a previous tube puncture repair. The rim itself showed some scratches next to it too. I’m using plastic tyre levers now. To cover this, I stuck a 30cm x 25mm strip of Gorilla tape over the top of the rim tape, 15cm eaither side of the worrisome patch.

I also gave a couple of quarter tightens to the valve collar thing with pliers, too, to improve the seal there. When I pumped it all up again (I did a dry run first because I’m learning fast!) this leak had gone. Then did the final gunk-fill and inflate. 8 hours later plus a couple of miles round the lanes, and it is still up. Result!

So apart from a bit of mess and subsequent cleaning up, I can say it was a success, and if you are a newbie to all of this and somewhat intimidated by tubeless, then don’t be, and give it a go.

Cheers!

Si.

Thanks for that, I am a total newbie and will be converting mine to tubeless at some point so that was useful, especially the plastic tyre levers and doing a dry run first.

 

[steve_sordy]

Did you notice any difference in the way the ride felt?
Did you try different pressures to take advantage/compensate-for the lack of tubes?
Do you still carry a spare tube, plus the means to fix a puncture (levers, patches, pump etc)

 

[softtailcruiser]

Steve,

Not really experienced enough to notice a difference. Was still running 40psi as per the pressure to ‘pop’ the tyres into place. I normally run 30 as I am a bit if a heifer. If I had to, I would say the front end and steering felt lighter and more responsive. Would that be real?

I will be carrying a spare tube, just in case, and will also get some plugs, too. I will also keep the CO2 thingy handy. I imagine it will be a messy business though!

 

[bissona]

So apart from a bit of mess and subsequent cleaning up, I can say it was a success

Exactly the same here, very glad I had a go.

Would love to say I've noticed a difference, but the reality is there's probably only 100g /end once you take the sealant into account. I do run the tyres c.5 psi lower than I was before though, and have yet to have a flat in 3 months tubeless.

And, yes, I do take a spare tube/levers/pump on all rides, but then I did before too as we were always getting flats.

 

[Russell]

I went tubeless but after my side wall failed on my minion I have since gone back to tubes. If you get a flat with tubeless you end up in a right mess.

 

[highpeakrider]

Lots of valves have small rubber seals to stop the leaks. I always hold wheels horizontal and sway Up and down both side so the sealant is spread all round the rim, leave 24 hrs at a higher pressure to get a good seal and rotate wheel often.

 

[flash]

Also a happy tubeless newbie. I do feel a difference in the front of the bike. Two main things convinced me tubeless was the way to go. First I dinged a rim with no pinch flat or loss of pressure. Second on my other bike (with tubes) I changed tyres and woke up to find both tyres flat from where I'd some how managed to pinch the tubes installing the new rubber. That bike is now tubeless as well.

I carry a tube and some plugs when I ride but so far not a single flat in 600km.

Gordon

 

[Slowroller]

As a tubeless vet, you can eliminate most of the mess by inflating the tire dry and then adding your sealant through the valve stem. By dry, I mean it's been wiped down with soapy water, but there isn't any sealant inside. Soapy water is essential because it lubricates the bead of the tire so it slides into place easier. I use a compressor, and take the valve core out to get as much air in, as fast as possible. That way, if you run into major problems, you won't have a tire full of goop dripping all over the place while you try to make it happy.

I also ALWAYS take the tire out of the package and open it up into tire shape the day before. You need the bead and sidewalls to relax into it's normal shape. I learned this the hard way by trying and failing for several hours to mount straight out of the package new tires, gave up, came back the next day and they popped straight on.

You know you're going to have an easy time of it if the tire pops on the rim, and airs up nice and firm. If it doesn't, make sure it's relaxed and warm, not ice cold from sitting in your garage. If the bead doesn't want to move over to the sidewall and seat, spanking the tread can help, work your way around. Sometimes all it take is to get the tire to seat in one spot, then there's enough pressure to push the rest of the tire inot place. If you're still not getting anywhere, use some rope or a strap around the circumference of the tire to compress it and move the sidewalls over.

 

[WheelsandBoards]

Blow up the tyre and get it to seat without the valve core in.......gets more air in quicker and seating easier. Then simply let out the air and screw in the core.... reinflate.

If you really go off exploring tubeless is the only way to stop endless punctures....

 

[galaga187]

As a tubeless vet, you can eliminate most of the mess by inflating the tire dry and then adding your sealant through the valve stem. By dry, I mean it's been wiped down with soapy water, but there isn't any sealant inside. Soapy water is essential because it lubricates the bead of the tire so it slides into place easier. I use a compressor, and take the valve core out to get as much air in, as fast as possible. That way, if you run into major problems, you won't have a tire full of goop dripping all over the place while you try to make it happy.

I also ALWAYS take the tire out of the package and open it up into tire shape the day before. You need the bead and sidewalls to relax into it's normal shape. I learned this the hard way by trying and failing for several hours to mount straight out of the package new tires, gave up, came back the next day and they popped straight on.

You know you're going to have an easy time of it if the tire pops on the rim, and airs up nice and firm. If it doesn't, make sure it's relaxed and warm, not ice cold from sitting in your garage. If the bead doesn't want to move over to the sidewall and seat, spanking the tread can help, work your way around. Sometimes all it take is to get the tire to seat in one spot, then there's enough pressure to push the rest of the tire inot place. If you're still not getting anywhere, use some rope or a strap around the circumference of the tire to compress it and move the sidewalls over.

Would you recommend using Co2 out on the trail or regular pump? I've heard Co2 can freeze the liquid.

 

[WheelsandBoards]

If you go tubeless, having a pump or canister with you is a bit like being a real ugly f..Ker and carrying a condom. You might need it but highly unlikely !!!!

 

[steve_sordy]

Steve,

Not really experienced enough to notice a difference. Was still running 40psi as per the pressure to ‘pop’ the tyres into place. I normally run 30 as I am a bit if a heifer. If I had to, I would say the front end and steering felt lighter and more responsive. Would that be real?

I will be carrying a spare tube, just in case, and will also get some plugs, too. I will also keep the CO2 thingy handy. I imagine it will be a messy business though!

I don't know how heavy "a bit of a heifer" is, nor do I know what your tyre size is, but 40psi sounds like a LOT to me. I have 29 x 2.6 and I weigh 92kg in my riding gear and I have 16F/18R psi.

This is a link to one of the Tech Tuesday series by PinkBike. It is about finding your ideal tyre pressure. Read the words, watch the vid, go do it. It was an absolute revelation when I first saw it. I have lost count of the number of riders I have persuaded to drop their tyre pressure, with the simple promise to personally pump them back up again if they don't like the result.

Tech Tuesday - Find Your Tire Pressure Sweet Spot - Pinkbike

 

[WheelsandBoards]

Agree, 40 is v high....

 

[softtailcruiser]

Steve and Wheels, thanks.

I’ve gone high initially to get the tyres seated and any little leaks sealed. They are rated 20-40 on the sidewalls, and for me heifer is 108kg, plus bike and gear. I’ll have a look at that link, Steve, thanks, as I know 40 is high and would love to find my ideal pressure.

I started home brewing a couple if years ago, using kits initially and then on to proper ingredients - malt, hops and the like. This learning journey feels like that, again. There is so much to get your head round and the devil is in the detail.

Loving it!

 

[WheelsandBoards]

Me too, been riding for tonks but never had +tyres.....very different and challenging to get the right tyres for slop !!!!

 

[softtailcruiser]

Ok, had a look at the link and I’m going to start with 30 rear, 25 front, and see how I go from there.

 

[steve_sordy]

If you haven't got one already buy yourself a digital pressure gauge like the Topeak D2.
Topeak Smart Gauge D2 | £21.95 from Pedal On

Then take it and a mini pump with you. Find out what works for you and write it down. Then check to ensure it is the same before you set off on each ride. Even 1psi can make a difference. After all you have spent time identifying the correct pressure for you, why not stick to it!
You may find that extreme conditions may need a few psi either side, but for most of your riding the pressures you write down will be ideal.

 

[softtailcruiser]

Cheers Steve, wheels and the rest. Much help there. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

 

[Dee Scee]

Exactly the same here, very glad I had a go.

Would love to say I've noticed a difference, but the reality is there's probably only 100g /end once you take the sealant into account. I do run the tyres c.5 psi lower than I was before though, and have yet to have a flat in 3 months tubeless.

And, yes, I do take a spare tube/levers/pump on all rides, but then I did before too as we were always getting flats. View attachment 9874

Look at you with room for a tube, levers and a pump and can still fit the water bottle! I cut the top off my water bottle and folded the tube up into it. Maybe I can do better?

 

[softtailcruiser]

Would make the water taste a bit rubbery, though.

 

[Slowroller]

Would you recommend using Co2 out on the trail or regular pump? I've heard Co2 can freeze the liquid.

It's not going to freeze the sealant, it doesn't freeze except at low temps none of us would be riding in and there's not enough of a temperature change to freeze all of that mass, the tire and sealant. You can freeze your hand though if you're holding the cartridge without gloves on, ask me how I know.....

It's a personal preference to use either a pump or cartridge. The most common reasons to need more air is to burp the tire in a rut or landing a jump, or a big enough puncture that doesn't seal instantly. I've had one problematic puncture in all the years I've been running tubeless and it was before plugs were on the market. Which is a worthwhile investment, a plug kit if you ride in the boonies. Another thing to keep in mind is that if it comes down to it, and you have to install a tube in the field to get home, you have to get the tubeless valve stem out, so don't use pliers to tighten them down at home, because you'll find you then need one trailside.

 

[Dee Scee]

Would make the water taste a bit rubbery, though.

after you rinse the white powder off, it's not even noticeable!

 

[Gyro]

Lots of valves have small rubber seals to stop the leaks. I always hold wheels horizontal and sway Up and down both side so the sealant is spread all round the rim, leave 24 hrs at a higher pressure to get a good seal and rotate wheel often.

I use a couple of wraps of PTFE thread tape on the stem retaining collar as the "O" ring doesn't seal the thread.

 

[steve_sordy]

I use a couple of wraps of PTFE thread tape on the stem retaining collar as the "O" ring doesn't seal the thread.

Great idea, I do the same but around the base of the tubeless valve before tapping it into place. Works every time!

 

[Mad Mark]

I don't know how heavy "a bit of a heifer" is, nor do I know what your tyre size is, but 40psi sounds like a LOT to me. I have 29 x 2.6 and I weigh 92kg in my riding gear and I have 16F/18R psi.

This is a link to one of the Tech Tuesday series by PinkBike. It is about finding your ideal tyre pressure. Read the words, watch the vid, go do it. It was an absolute revelation when I first saw it. I have lost count of the number of riders I have persuaded to drop their tyre pressure, with the simple promise to personally pump them back up again if they don't like the result.

Tech Tuesday - Find Your Tire Pressure Sweet Spot - Pinkbike

"I don't know how heavy a bit of a heifer is" ..... That Steve sordy is one of the funniest things I've heard on this forum..ever
I couldn't stop laughing for about 10 minutes
I'm writing this with tears in my ears....thank you so much for that....BRILLIANT ?????????

 

[highpeakrider]

Great idea, I do the same but around the base of the tubeless valve before tapping it into place. Works every time!

Not thourght of that......

 

[steve_sordy]

"I don't know how heavy a bit of a heifer is" ..... That Steve sordy is one of the funniest things I've heard on this forum..ever
I couldn't stop laughing for about 10 minutes
I'm writing this with tears in my ears....thank you so much for that....BRILLIANT ?????????

I wasn't trying to be funny, but hey, whatever floats your boat! I'm glad to have brightened your day.

 

[softtailcruiser]

Update: riding with 25 front and 30 rear feels less ‘bobbly’ or ‘skippy’ if that makes sense. Feels more like the smaller stuff is being cruised over rather than bumped over. I think I will drop a bit more over the next couple of weeks to see what the effect is. Then it’ll be time to work on the suspension set-up, but that’s a whole other thread....