Consumer Rights - Where do I stand in getting a refund on my Decoy?

[seamarsh]

My brother has had a similar experience with yt . Non e bike related . But has cracked 3 Jeffsy frames . They replaced two but now won’t reply to him. It’s been 3 months since he’s heard from yt .
terrible customer service and terrible Manufacturing of the frames . The second frame he received . The mould around the head tube looks like a 2 year old moulded it . Very lumpy and uneven .
I wouldn’t go anywhere near yt after his experience .

have any pictures of the cracked frames? Was sending it off. Buildings? Is he a large mammal?

Seems a bit odd.. you would be hearing about frames breaking left and right If they were that bad..

 

[Hugh-Jazz]

have any pictures of the cracked frames? Was sending it off. Buildings? Is he a large mammal?

Seems a bit odd.. you would be hearing about frames breaking left and right If they were that bad..

I agree, pictures of the “lumpy frame“? You mean on the inside of the head tube? My Decoy seems to have the average build quality for the industry, which is good enough.

Regarding other issues with this bike, I had the same issue with the fork and reduced travel. For some reason the negative air chamber was pressurized and pulling the fork down. Cycling the fork through its travel resolved the issue. I can see the frustration with that. The battery issues? I’ll read the rest of the thread about it. So far, I’ve felt that the battery is the one of the things that makes this bike better than the all-Shimano bikes. The Simplo battery pack has been great for me compared to the 504WH Shimano external pack.

 

[Hugh-Jazz]

The most common issue with Decoy's freezing on start up seems to be the battery. Specifically moisture entering the battery. When my Decoy refused to start, simple battery replacement fixed it. So the easiest test would be trying someone else's battery in your bike. Shimano service probably can't help because they don't have means to test the battery properly. If the battery sends error signal or does not send "all clear" signal during the boot up, the system can't function. Ideally there would be a way to test this issue so YT sends just new battery and the customer sends the old one back. However there is a possible issue with this. Decoy's battery uses alu brackets to mount into the frame. While these are easy to remove from the old battery and put onto the new one, this might be an issue vis-a-vis maintaining the warranty. YT may not be willing to risk having customers to do this on their own as a bad job might cause future problems. It could be simpler for them to require shipping the whole bike back to their repair center

The YT mounting is more robust than the Shimano mounting. This isn’t the issue. If Shimano was more open regarding the communication between the battery and the motor it may be easier to diagnose. Battery issues are usually a bad cell in the pack. However, BMS boards do fail. These motor/battery systems are complex compared to an analog bicycle. Eventually, diagnosing systems will be available like they are for automobiles. It’s early days for e-bikes.

 

[Sapientiea]

My brother has had a similar experience with yt . Non e bike related . But has cracked 3 Jeffsy frames . They replaced two but now won’t reply to him. It’s been 3 months since he’s heard from yt .
terrible customer service and terrible Manufacturing of the frames . The second frame he received . The mould around the head tube looks like a 2 year old moulded it . Very lumpy and uneven .
I wouldn’t go anywhere near yt after his experience .

Well to be honest if you brake 3 YT Jeffsy frames you are abusing the bike. I own 2 Jeffsy's and the construction is near perfect. I weigh 100kg and did some enduro stuff as well as general trail riding with the bike and it still is in one piece. The change your brother got a ' bad' frame 3 times in a row seems to be a little strange? Did he by any change use the bike as a downhill bike or dirt jumper, because to brake a frame with out smashing it into a rock or tree is really difficult.....

 

[rb.]

My brother has had a similar experience with yt . Non e bike related . But has cracked 3 Jeffsy frames . They replaced two but now won’t reply to him. It’s been 3 months since he’s heard from yt .
terrible customer service and terrible Manufacturing of the frames . The second frame he received . The mould around the head tube looks like a 2 year old moulded it . Very lumpy and uneven .
I wouldn’t go anywhere near yt after his experience .

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

That sucks though, hopefully other’s luck will be better if/when they have a warranty issue.

 

[Ymersmoelf]

Sold my Decoy friday and i am so reliefed... - im OUT!!!
Have had tre small component warranty claims and YT have been either sooooo slow to respond or really unhelpfull and their standart answer i allways. Send it to us...... even after bombarding them with video/foto documentation and parts numbers...
Being a direct sales brand they have to be absolutely on their toes to remove all doubt about support.
I think they spend a ton of money on fancy advertising.
One of the support guys even apologised in the fall saying that they were far behind and a lot off the staff were sick and therefore not working...

Sorry thats not a comfort for you - just another pissed off customer.

Hope it sort out for you in the end.

 

[seamarsh]

Wonder if this is more a uk problem? Here in California I call yt and someone answers on the first or second ring and I’m talking to a human.. nothing but good luck yet.

maybe I’m wrong but seems like most people with issues are in uk... maybe they don’t have uk support sorted yet?

 

[Fx1]

I'm guessing when uk support is open this will be much better.

I'm not sure I'd spend 2 or 3 grand more just for a few problems. Those problems can be sorted in a bike shop for a few quid usually.

Had the Kenevo been carbon and lighter then I'd consider it but at what cost? A motor which is a total lemon for reliability. Which no matter how good service is right now you wont get shit fixed for weeks in a bike shop and might not even get parts out of china. Add 3 to 4 grand on for that kind of experience....

Hmm..

 

[b45her]

Ive worked on many YT's, the frames are proper bargain basement shite, alignment is all over the place and lots of really bad bolt choices for pivots.
Also never feel around inside the frames there's all sorts of debris and pointy shit left in there.

Cheap for a reason.

canyon s and propains ive worked in seem far higher quality as direct brand manufacturers.

 

[Zero]

Ive worked on many YT's, the frames are proper bargain basement shite, alignment is all over the place and lots of really bad bolt choices for pivots.
Also never feel around inside the frames there's all sorts of debris and pointy shit left in there.

Cheap for a reason.

canyon s and propains ive worked in seem far higher quality as direct brand manufacturers.

Well you can see the inside of the Decoy frame and it shows nothing of what you say. The bolts are no different than any other type of bike ive owned.

The frames are going to be made in a factory with a load of other brands which means the claims you make dont hold much weight. Do you think YT pays any less per frame than specialized? I bet not.

There are good and bad frames from every brand. Plenty of horror stories from all brands on other bike forums.

I also dont buy this cheap for a reason stuff you say either. The bikes come better specced than most brands. No corners cut on suspension or the headset and handlebars etc.

Customer service can be better which is obviously why they are opening up in the UK.

 

[steviedsolve]

Reading this story I'm thinking YT are due a rebranding to just Y.
Y advertise something that isn't true (Shimano Service Centre comment)
Y not have a decent customer service process like other brands
Y build a bike brand and then trash it with this kind of customer experience

I'm sorry for your loss @d7e8wd
I'd definitely make sure it is well packed when you ship it back so they can't use that one against you, then after 3 weeks if it still isn't returned I'd be going the Credit Card complaint route.

Y Suck!!!

 

[urastus]

Thank you for the post - I try to avoid trouble, and that sounds like a real headache.

 

[seamarsh]

Sorry haters in this t

Ive worked on many YT's, the frames are proper bargain basement shite, alignment is all over the place and lots of really bad bolt choices for pivots.
Also never feel around inside the frames there's all sorts of debris and pointy shit left in there.

Cheap for a reason.

canyon s and propains ive worked in seem far higher quality as direct brand manufacturers.

wow cool story bro sounds super legit.. gtfoh

lol people in this thread.. pictures or it didn’t happen... I don’t believe any of this!

 

[Sapientiea]

We have to realize that people with bad experiences will be much more likely to jump on the interwebz to tell their story. Every brand has it issues, although I think the success in Decoy sales got YT off guard!
Not having problems with YT service, they always reacted and solved the problems. No issues with frames. I do my own maintenance and treat my bike just a little less well than my wife

 

[seamarsh]

We have to realize that people with bad experiences will be much more likely to jump on the interwebz to tell their story. Every brand has it issues, although I think the success in Decoy sales got YT off guard!
Not having problems with YT service, they always reacted and solved the problems. No issues with frames. I do my own maintenance and treat my bike just a little less well than my wife

I just want people to substantiate their claims.. what does really bad bolts for pivots mean? They look like bolts to me.. nothing out of the ordinary.

Or the guys brother, uncle, cousin who broke 3 frames.. you broke 3 frames! Of course they stopped taking your calls.. You can’t just break an endless supply of frames.. clearly something else going on.

I don’t doubt people have had some shitty support especially during the coronavirus but a lot of these claims sound like nonsense to me. If you had a bike company, why would you make shitty frames that break? That would be a terrible business model. Just doesn’t add up.

 

[R120]

Brands within all types of industry have acceptable failure rates on their goods, that's what they calculate their back up, spares, warranty costs etc off. Depends on the business model as to what they deem acceptable.

TBH tolerances amongst pretty much al the major mainstream bike manufacturers are pretty piss poor, though a laser level down your head tube and I bet the headset cups aren't in line to the level of accuracy you might expect.

And yes we see the sharp end of the stick on here as many people joing just to try and figure out what to do when they have an issue..

TBH the way I ride my bikes I view them as expendable goods, if I get 3 years out of one, I am a happy camper

 

[Fx1]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear.

Bike shops hate direct to consumer brands.

People who work in bikes shops hate direct to consumer brands

Mechanics who work in bike shops hate direct to consumer brands

So you have to be careful listening to these bull shit stories. Because there is an agenda at play here.

This is why you get random people on here posting hate on the brand without ever owning one.

Ebikes have more problems than they should because they are new tech. Just ask any 2019 levo owner..

 

[R120]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear.

Bike shops hate direct to consumer brands.

People who work in bikes shops hate direct to consumer brands

Mechanics who work in bike shops hate direct to consumer brands

So you have to be careful listening to these bull shit stories. Because there is an agenda at play here.

This is why you get random people on here posting hate on the brand without ever owning one.

Ebikes have more problems than they should because they are new tech. Just ask any 2019 levo owner..

Whilst that sentiment does exist, I wouldn't say its necessarily the norm and the shop side of the industry is massively changing - most bike shops make their money out of maintenance and fettling of bikes as much as they do selling bikes, my LBS's have no objection to direct sales as in their opinion they have bought more workshop work their way, but they adjusted their business model a while back to be not reliant so much on bike sales - I think its the shops that rely heavily on shifting bike stock that have suffered. One has even teamed up with many direct sale brands to offer a fitting and build service for an extra 150 quid or something like that, they always have a load of canyons coming though their workshop for example, and you can go to them for warranty issues too.

I think its a good model for some of the direct sales brands to partner up with shops for delivery and after sales - Orbea do this really well, you can buy direct off them, but get the bike put together and set up by partner LBS's.

The shops that are snooty towards direct sales bikes are the ones who have their heads stuck in the sand.

The biggest thing that has hit bike shops is online clothing and accessory sales - most shops I know now stock a minimal range of bike clothing, as they just cant afford to compete with online pricing, or hold the amount of stock to accommodate all tastes and take the risk of not selling it.

 

[b45her]

I just want people to substantiate their claims.. what does really bad bolts for pivots mean? They look like bolts to me.. nothing out of the ordinary.

Or the guys brother, uncle, cousin who broke 3 frames.. you broke 3 frames! Of course they stopped taking your calls.. You can’t just break an endless supply of frames.. clearly something else going on.

I don’t doubt people have had some shitty support especially during the coronavirus but a lot of these claims sound like nonsense to me. If you had a bike company, why would you make shitty frames that break? That would be a terrible business model. Just doesn’t add up.

a t40 torx head in an ally bolt with a thread around 15mm is a BAD choice, the god awful captive nut arrangement on the rocker is terrible. the build quality is poor at best.

im guessing you own one, my sympathies go your way.

 

[Zero]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear.

Bike shops hate direct to consumer brands.

People who work in bikes shops hate direct to consumer brands

Mechanics who work in bike shops hate direct to consumer brands

So you have to be careful listening to these bull shit stories. Because there is an agenda at play here.

This is why you get random people on here posting hate on the brand without ever owning one.

Ebikes have more problems than they should because they are new tech. Just ask any 2019 levo owner..

Whilst that sentiment does exist, I wouldn't say its necessarily the norm and the shop side of the industry is massively changing - most bike shops make their money out of maintenance and fettling of bikes as much as they do selling bikes, my LBS's have no objection to direct sales as in their opinion they have bought more workshop work their way, but they adjusted their business model a while back to be not reliant so much on bike sales - I think its the shops that rely heavily on shifting bike stock that have suffered. One has even teamed up with many direct sale brands to offer a fitting and build service for an extra 150 quid or something like that, they always have a load of canyons coming though their workshop for example, and you can go to them for warranty issues too.

I think its a good model for some of the direct sales brands to partner up with shops for delivery and after sales - Orbea do this really well, you can buy direct off them, but get the bike put together and set up by partner LBS's.

The shops that are snooty towards direct sales bikes are the ones who have their heads stuck in the sand.

The biggest thing that has hit bike shops is online clothing and accessory sales - most shops I know now stock a minimal range of bike clothing, as they just cant afford to compete with online pricing, or hold the amount of stock to accommodate all tastes and take the risk of not selling it.

He was probably being a bit hyperbolic to make a point if you get my drift.

It makes me laugh when people slate one brand over another. This guy here is moaning about bolts whilst you can spend 12 grand on a santa Cruz or a s works model which is literally no different than another brand for half its price.

I know of so many broken frames for high end brands its laughable. The best bit is that they will send you a replacement in what ever colour they have lying around. He started off with a black frame and his replacement was baby pink... no shit. It's hilarious or it would be had he not paid nearly 8 grand for the bike. Spesh said its that frame or a 9 month wait. Oh and no he cant paint it or it invalidate his frame warranty. His mates hum the pink panther tune when he turns up for a ride.

A 2019 base decoy was £3400 in close out sales. That's amazing value for a carbon shimano set up. At that kind of money you can forgive some niggles. From what I can understand as long as it's not a battery issue it can be solved locally. Even then in a month or two that can be solved here too.

Nobody can sit here and tell me the santa Cruz is 350% better than the base model decoy.

 

[seamarsh]

a t40 torx head in an ally bolt with a thread around 15mm is a BAD choice, the god awful captive nut arrangement on the rocker is terrible. the build quality is poor at best.

im guessing you own one, my sympathies go your way.

That captive nut is same type That Santa Cruz uses on their linkage..

not sure which torx in alloy bolt you are describing?

Anyway, no sympathies Necessary! Im all good brohammer!

 

[Sand0kan]

Maybe you should try and find another UK Decoy owner and swap batteries. Test and see if it creates start-up problems. You could also connect a standard shimano battery to the motor and test. Mybe at Shimano service center. I really doubt the on/off button is the problem. This should be possible to do rirght?

Friend of mine who owns a Decoy 2 had the same problem.....the steps screen would not go further. We made a movie in which we switched batteries....my batterie in his decoy everythiing fine....his battery in mine same frozen steps screen. He mailed this video to YT and told them here is the proof that the battery is faulty......Yt told him to send the complete bike.

He had several arguments but in the end he had to send the complete bike back....problem is fixed now though.

 

[seamarsh]

Friend of mine who owns a Decoy 2 had the same problem.....the steps screen would not go further. We made a movie in which we switched batteries....my batterie in his decoy everythiing fine....his battery in mine same frozen steps screen. He mailed this video to YT and told them here is the proof that the battery is faulty......Yt told him to send the complete bike.

He had several arguments but in the end he had to send the complete bike back....problem is fixed now though.

people buy an online only brand bike and save Bunch of money and get better components: YT is incredible!!!

same people have to send in bike for repair because it’s online only : YT sucks!!!

 

[rb.]

Nobody can sit here and tell me the santa Cruz is 350% better than the base model decoy.

Performance wise, absolutely not. But people still buy SC bikes left and right for the brand name. Heck, I own an IPhone, MacBook Pro, and an Apple Watch. And don’t tell me that’s not exactly the same thing as buying a SC bike just because it’s a SC. If people are willing to pay for it, it’s not over priced.

 

[rb.]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear.

Bike shops hate direct to consumer brands.

People who work in bikes shops hate direct to consumer brands

Mechanics who work in bike shops hate direct to consumer brands

Not true. I just bought a decoy. And then I also upgraded the wheels, brakes, dropper, seat, stem, grips, shock, fork, tires, and pedals. Where do you think I bought all that stuff? If my bike shop was so negative towards direct to consumer brands, I can just as easily order it through a big online retailer. But they have been super good to me no matter what bike I ride, so I try to shop there as much as possible.

 

[Sand0kan]

people buy an online only brand bike and save Bunch of money and get better components: YT is incredible!!!

same people have to send in bike for repair because it’s online only : YT sucks!!!

Thats not what i am saying....you know the perks when buying online tbh....service could be a challenge....component wise i get in touch with the manufacturer when something is wrong directly saves tons off time....but lots of bang for the bucks....and in the end YT neve let me down....thats why i have a Jeffsy, Capra and Decoy.

 

[Zero]

I dont know why you are all blaming YT. Its the LAW you cannot sent naked Li-on batteries in the post. They must be sent in the frame. No different with many Li-on products over certain power capacity.

There are new courier services which offer transport in special containers. But these are not widespread.

This will be the reason for them not allowing battery only returns. This will be much easier when service center is open. I cant see the next Shimano bikes using much other than the 630wh Shimano battery too which means this problem will go away.

 

[Zero]

Performance wise, absolutely not. But people still buy SC bikes left and right for the brand name. Heck, I own an IPhone, MacBook Pro, and an Apple Watch. And don’t tell me that’s not exactly the same thing as buying a SC bike just because it’s a SC. If people are willing to pay for it, it’s not over priced.

Well no. Just because some people buy it that doesnt means it isnt over priced.

If it sells in low volumes versus its competitor set then its over priced. I dont think £10k+ e bikes have a place in this world for very long. Especially ones that use off the shelf battery and motor set ups available in bikes 1/3 of the price.

Listening to the founder of SC i dont think even he believes in the bike. Its like they have been forced to make one due to the market moving.

At least Spesh believe in Ebikes. They just cant seem to make them without huge problems though. I didnt realise this but even the previous Levo and Kenevo motor has serious reliability problems. A guy i saw on the trails said they wouldnt sell him a belt for his motor and would only sell him a whole motor. Not sure why he wasnt covered under warranty but it could have just expired.

 

[R120]

I dont know why you are all blaming YT. Its the LAW you cannot sent naked Li-on batteries in the post. They must be sent in the frame. No different with many Li-on products over certain power capacity.

There are new courier services which offer transport in special containers. But these are not widespread.

This will be the reason for them not allowing battery only returns. This will be much easier when service center is open. I cant see the next Shimano bikes using much other than the 630wh Shimano battery too which means this problem will go away.

Actually thats not quite right, you can send the batteries around, you just need to have the right paperwork and packaging and use a courier service like UPS, and they will be sent by land/sea not air. I have bought spare batteries from holland for example. Theres a lot of threads on here about it. Its easier than you think, but not as clear how to do it as it could be. This thread probably describes the process best. Still I would have though from YT's perspective moire cost effective and less hassle to the consumer to ship whole bike back, especially if no service centre in your country.

Ebike shipping

Also, i just did a search on the ups website for ebike and it didnt return any results. Is it definatley the case that mbe are prepared to ship a 500wh ebike lithium ion battery? I only say this because i know people ship batteries without declaring what the are properly. Problem with this...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Zero]

Actually thats not quite right, you can send the batteries around, you just need to have the right paperwork and packaging and use a courier service like UPS, and they will be sent by land/sea not air. I have bought spare batteries from holland for example. Theres a lot of threads on here about it. Its easier than you think, but not as clear how to do it as it could be. This thread probably describes the process best. Still I would have though from YT's perspective moire cost effective and less hassle to the consumer to ship whole bike back, especially if no service centre in your country.

Ebike shipping

Also, i just did a search on the ups website for ebike and it didnt return any results. Is it definatley the case that mbe are prepared to ship a 500wh ebike lithium ion battery? I only say this because i know people ship batteries without declaring what the are properly. Problem with this...

www.emtbforums.com

I said you could send them but the law is still the law on this issue and most carriers just flat out refuse most of the time.

They have to be sent on land and through a hazardous goods carrier I think. It's a pain in the ass and not cheap from what I understand. There are also a ton of liability issues for businesses so most just avoid it. Also different counties have different rules and carriers have their own rules.

Putting it in the frame basically solves this issue completely. This is probably why they end up doing it this way but it would be a smarter idea to have a solution that works but maybe that isnt possible for a company that serves a world market.