Chain and Cassette worn out after 193 miles

[Bilko]

Hi, took my year old Giant Dirt E pro +2 in to my local Giant dealer as i was getting slipping in the bottom (smallest) gear. Just been told i need a new cassette and chain (£100) and it is not covered under warranty as it is classed as wear and tear. Does this seem fair as its only covered 193 miles from new and never been riden in mub or rain? I was going to upgrade to a full suspension Giant Trance E but don't think i'll bother now and look at alternative brands.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Sounds impressive !!! Do you have HULK legs ? You'd imagine even if you didn't lube your chain it would last more than 193 miles. From what I've read on here the shimano 10 speed is normally quite hard wearing and reliable. I have the same on mine. No sign of wear at about 1000 miles - which I know doesn't help your situation. Gets lubed every ride, no idea if that is ott or not.

I think the main wear on e-bikes is shifting under power and not backing off for a second before you shift so the motor power drops off momentarily, or it just shreds the gears. I think it's refered to as superman shifting or something (someone will correct me shortly) and is common on e-bikes until you get used to them/the motor and normally results in hugely short life span of the first cassette and chain.

Still 193 miles !!!!! wow..In fairness though, this probably isn't down to Giant, you'd possibly have the same problem with any bike.

 

[Bilko]

I'm 6'2" and 95 kg and do put a fair bit of power through the pedals but i'm no Chris Froome. I asked the shop if i could fit a bigger front chainring so i wouldn't use bottom gear so much but due to the lack of clearance can only go up 2 teeth. I love the bike but spending £100 every 193 miles is not worth it imo.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That sounds like a good combination for decent power !

I think you'll just have to chalk this one up to experience . I'm sure you'll have more comments, theories and good ideas when the "more knowledgeable" ones show up .. But I wouldn't blame the bike, or feel bad about it. You're certainly not the first person to eat a cassette in a miraculously short time.

I'm pretty sure @Gary would expect you to be getting about 2000 miles with that combination and he seems to be physically hard (eats motor bearings for breakfast) on wimpy little metal bits.

 

[MattyB]

Could this be a by product of the instant engagement the Yamaha is noted for? I can imagine that could eat chains and cassettes at a fair rate if you start regularly on steeps at high levels of assist. The other factors that affect this are drivetrain maintenance (though I agree even with zero maintenance I'd have expected the cassette to last a bit longer than that) and mechanical sympathy - do you always back off the pedals when changing gear? If not that should help increase your chain and cassette life.

 

[Bilko]

Yes i do back off when changing gear, i always seem to be fighting the motor cut off on the flat i wonder if this has something to do with it. Just collected bike from shop not had it fixed but they were really helpful considering i didn't buy it from them. When i looked at buying the bike originally i remember the lower model had 2 front chain rings. i wonder if i can use this set up so i can get a larger chainring on and get away from the 11t back cog.

 

[poppy]

Could this be a by product of the instant engagement the Yamaha is noted for? I can imagine that could eat chains and cassettes at a fair rate if you start regularly on steeps at high levels of assist. The other factors that affect this are drivetrain maintenance (though I agree even with zero maintenance I'd have expected the cassette to last a bit longer than that) and mechanical sympathy - do you always back off the pedals when changing gear? If not that should help increase your chain and cassette life.

I don't reckon, i have over 1000klm's on my Trance E Pro 0 and chain is at .05 wear, cassette and drive sprocket all good as well. I do wash and oil chain probably once a week, ride 2-3 times a week normally.

 

[Rusty]

I would be pretty pissed with my LBS with that kind of support. I don't care if something is not covered under warranty because it is regarded as a 'wear & tear' item - I would be speaking to my local consumer support organization. In my mind and based on my knowledge of laws in serveral different countries a component that required replacing that that distance would be a prime example of 'Not fit for purpose. In your case
What do I do if I have a faulty product? What are my rights?

Your dealer will be able to plug diagnostic kit into your bike and extract charge cycles, mileage etc.
I'm 110-112 and absolutely hammer kit, but I would expect 10 x that life minimum. Hell, I put in 200km on my Scott over 2 days before I remembered to lube the chain.

 

[HORSPWR]

Yep this guy ^^^^. 193 miles is certainly not fit for purpose, I'd be demanding it get replaced for free.

 

[Pdoz]

I wrecked my first chain in about 400 km from poor shifting technique +/- the novelty of full power on the full e pro. The next chain lasted nearly twice as long. Learning to shift with the cranks at6/12 oclock made a huge difference.

Stay away from the dual front chainring

 

[33red]

Honestly the possibilities are numerous. Maybe only the chain needed to be changed and they are filling up the invoice? I know here we can bring a new chain and some shop will pretend it is way over due to change after fake mesuring it. Maybe you picked up a branch and that damaged your chain? 1 issue is just that 1 issue. Allways get the replaced parts back. Do you have pics of the replaced cassette? Do you have a cluth? Was it on? Can you recognize a worn cassette? You can use youtube search for a subject and sometimes it helps having the video and the audio together. That is why a good LBS we trust is valuable. It is easy to blame you or the product/manufacturer or the shop but we are not on clean carpet. Do you have a 46T in the rear? I prefer a 42 it tends to pick up less stuff.

 

[Fast Willy]

Bought my bike in late march 2019 & after 500 miles my chain & cassette just wore out. It was skipping on 10th & 11th gear.

 

[33red]

Bought my bike in late march 2019 & after 500 miles my chain & cassette just wore out. It was skipping on 10th & 11th gear.

View attachment 16530

There is a tool for that. Mesure your chain regularly, change when needed to protect your cassette. Also maintain your chain and learn to shift. Youtube is filled with videos.

 

[Bilko]

I would be pretty pissed with my LBS with that kind of support. I don't care if something is not covered under warranty because it is regarded as a 'wear & tear' item - I would be speaking to my local consumer support organization. In my mind and based on my knowledge of laws in serveral different countries a component that required replacing that that distance would be a prime example of 'Not fit for purpose. In your case
What do I do if I have a faulty product? What are my rights?

Your dealer will be able to plug diagnostic kit into your bike and extract charge cycles, mileage etc.
I'm 110-112 and absolutely hammer kit, but I would expect 10 x that life minimum. Hell, I put in 200km on my Scott over 2 days before I remembered to lube the chain.

I did not buy the bike from this shop, to be honest they have been very good and did try to get a warranty replacement but Giant UK said no. I even rang Giant UK myself and was told chain and cassette are wear and tear items and not cover by the warranty even at 193 miles no ifs or buts.

I've ordered the new replacement parts from bike discount.de and will fix it myself and will chalk this up to poor experiance and bad luck. Was seriously looking at the Giant Trance sx-e as the shop has an ex demo going for a really good price but think i'm done with Giant now.

 

[Rusty]

I do have one further comment Bilko - evaluate the chain and sprockets you are going to use as replacements.
I had a good look at different groupsets and honestly, for the ebike I want cheaper steel cassettes and not the flasher alloy ones. Yes the flasher ones do shift a little smoother, but based on my usage on my regular bikes I expect very low wear for alloy sprockets considering the power involved. Same with chains - used to break chains constantly on my singlespeed until I replaced the sprockets with wider ones and went to 8 speed chain.

 

[Snoozeboy]

Another thing, measure your chain stretch frequently and replace at 0.75pc stretch. You're supposed to be able to get 2-3 chains per cassette if you replace at 0.75 or earlier.

I was sceptical about this, preferring to wear the whole thing out and replace in one go, but I'm now changing my opinion.

I severely doubt you've worn out a chain in that distance, unless it was made of cheese. Did you measure it yourself?

 

[andykent]

If its only skipping in one gear, generally the smallest or second smallest sprocket at the back just change that one. Its normally those ones that go and the rest of the cassette is perfectly fins still to ride, much cheaper than buying a whole new cassette.

 

[Pukmeister]

Something sounds a bit fishy here, like they are pulling your pants down. 193 miles is nothing. Easy money for them ??

 

[Bilko]

If its only skipping in one gear, generally the smallest or second smallest sprocket at the back just change that one. Its normally those ones that go and the rest of the cassette is perfectly fins still to ride, much cheaper than buying a whole new cassette.

It is only on the smallest sprocket that the slipping occurs, I was lead to believe you can not buy the small sprocket on its own.

 

[33red]

My Ehaibike is Yamaha. I cannot talk for Giant but my transmission is Esmart. No multiple shifts, and it uses a delay to avoid too much stress. At 61 YO i know how to shift properly but it is usefull for some riders. I think some people buy the retail price and the entry level does need more adjustments. It is kind of for people who ride a little. When we ride often we should buy the quality that is more lasting. Just buy in your budget and your budget will decide what year you will buy. He wrote 193 miles in a year, i do that every 10 days.

 

[Zimmerframe]

My Ehaibike is Yamaha.

OK . I'm convinced. I've heard enough irrefutable evidence. Guys, none of our bikes are any good. We need to accept it. It's time to burn them all and accept the truth.. Only YAMAHA will suffice for the true eMTBer. There CAN BE ONLY ONE ! .. sorry @HIGHL4NDER to steal your catch phrase.

Damn, I was just so happy with my bike up until now. oh well.

 

[andykent]

Shimano Sprocket 11T with Spacer for CS-M771-10 BL | Sprocket Shop

For 10 speed shimano, pretty cheap as well, there is the chance you will not even need to change the chain. Shop i work in regulary changes just the sprocket and it works with the original chain.

i would suggest you are pushing to hard a gear with the motor. Try using a lighter gear and higher cadence.

 

[Bilko]

My Ehaibike is Yamaha. I cannot talk for Giant but my transmission is Esmart. No multiple shifts, and it uses a delay to avoid too much stress. At 61 YO i know how to shift properly but it is usefull for some riders. I think some people buy the retail price and the entry level does need more adjustments. It is kind of for people who ride a little. When we ride often we should buy the quality that is more lasting. Just buy in your budget and your budget will decide what year you will buy. He wrote 193 miles in a year, i do that every 10 days.

I've done those miles in 2 months, i've had the bike a year but did about 20 miles then had a few health issues and could not ride until a few months ago. I went Giant as you get better specs for your money and i also wanted the Yamaha motor.

 

[Bilko]

Shimano Sprocket 11T with Spacer for CS-M771-10 BL | Sprocket Shop

For 10 speed shimano, pretty cheap as well, there is the chance you will not even need to change the chain. Shop i work in regulary changes just the sprocket and it works with the original chain.

i would suggest you are pushing to hard a gear with the motor. Try using a lighter gear and higher cadence.

Thanks for the link, i'll get one of those next time i order but not sure if it's compatable with my
CS-HG50-10. Chain is pretty worn according to the gauge in the shop but i've ordered new as i don't want to wreck a new cassette.

 

[RocketMagnet]

Could be a few things or a combination of the following: incorrectly setup gears, poor shifting technique and/or poor maintenance (Cleaning, lube etc).
If your using a Ceramic based lube then they are Kryptonite for MTB chainsets.

I regularly degrease and thoroughly clean my chains and chainsets… 5 mins at the end of every ride with some degreaser and grundge brush.. wash off allow to dry and apply lube (I use Purple Extreme) and have an Eagle XX1 with over 1000 miles on it and my Ebike is going strong with XT 11 speed after 500 miles and id say another 500 still in it possibly. I've killed chainsets in the past quickly but that was due to a poor maintenance on my behalf.

Sorry but in this instance I agree with your LBS in that its a consumable wear part.

Wearing out the small cog is really usual and would point towards pushing too hard a gear for an EBIKE where you generally spin faster higher cadence Vs a normal bike were you need to put more torque in yourself...

 

[33red]

Thanks for the link, i'll get one of those next time i order but not sure if it's compatable with my
CS-HG50-10. Chain is pretty worn according to the gauge in the shop but i've ordered new as i don't want to wreck a new cassette.

I hope you can enjoy the trails.
I ordered that chain yesterday from Jenson USA. I went to my LBS and he asked way too much for brake pads so i included a chain with my order of brake pads. That same chain i use now it has over 1,500 kms and still mesure good. Maybe some debris was stuck between cogs so your chain was partially able to work as usual and premature damage happened. That is why tires, chains, etc occasionaly need early replacement. I had to use a knife to clean between my cogs. The idea is when there is something wrong sound/feeling we try to fix it to avoid problems in the wood and expensive maintenance.
Happy trails.

 

[andykent]

should fit, you can change the two smallest sprockets. Standard shimano freehub, all you need is a chainwhip and a shimano lockring tool. Standard that the smaller sprockets wear out faster. Same strain going through them but less teeth to bear the brunt.

 

[Dave_h34]

I wouldn't be too hard on Giant, I know the warranty lies with them but I don't think any other manufacturer would have done any differently. Probably std MTB spec cassettes not up to the job of an ebike. Have you checked other adjustments, particularly the limit screw? A little tweak to mech or hanger could mean the chain is being picked up then dropped.

 

[Pommylumpmmylump]

Early failure on the smallest cog and chain is quite common for e-bikes as the riders leave the chain in the smallest cog and just use the motor to pull hard and not change gears.

The best way to extend the life of the drive train is a bigger chainring, I run a 44 on my Trance-e, I spend a lot more time on the middle cogs on the back.

 

[papab]

Clean and lube more often. If you never lube I can see it wearing out in that time. I brush it off with a grunge brush. Lube with pedros or finish line dry or wet. I'm trying the purple extreme now. Everytime I meet someone with a broken chain they're using a wax lube so I stay away from those. I never degrease, it takes a lot of time and may do as much harm as good.
The hg50 cassette is a low end cassette so that may be a factor, but I don't really know. I get 3 - 4 years of dirty riding on an mtb cassette and have 700 miles on my ebike, still original.
As someone else mentioned, spin faster and use a lower gear more often if you can.