it's not
Chain and Cassette worn out after 193 miles
- Thread starter Bilko
- Start date
SiDobsFig
Member
Loads of things to check here. Great advice. Get chain stretch checker. You can buy the 11 tooth small cog separate Y1RK11000 if same as the XT Cassette (they don't usually like selling it but press it).
I have been trying to get a situation like yours sorted for a year after buying a top end machine so don't take the "general wear" bollocks.
I had a faulty Shimano lock ring on my Di2 11 XT Drivetrain (bought from new). Changed Chains 2x Shimano. Took out a Di2 Mech at £180 when the cassette loosened and skipped therefore putting extra pressure on the chain that snapped. Bought torque wrench plus Shimano Nut. Could never get cassette to stay tightened for more than 10 miles at 40NM. Got fed up with Advice from LBS. Emailed Hope as Hub was Hope. As soon as I mentioned the Shimano drivetrain, they advised me to buy me a new Lock Ring and tighten to 50NM. I tightened the original Shimano lock nut up to 50NM and it loosened before 10 miles again. I got a used Sram Lock Ring from my Local Trail centre for free and tightened it up to 50NM. Been great even since. I also replaced the 11T Shimano Small Cog just in case as it was skipping with the new chain.The rest of the Cassette was fine. I emailed Hope back to thank them and they replied "looks like a faulty lock ring was responsible."
After all the bad advice and at least £250 later it was sorted by an FOC SRAM lock ring.
At least its a cheap try out if you have a friend with a Torque Wrench.
All the best.
I have been trying to get a situation like yours sorted for a year after buying a top end machine so don't take the "general wear" bollocks.
I had a faulty Shimano lock ring on my Di2 11 XT Drivetrain (bought from new). Changed Chains 2x Shimano. Took out a Di2 Mech at £180 when the cassette loosened and skipped therefore putting extra pressure on the chain that snapped. Bought torque wrench plus Shimano Nut. Could never get cassette to stay tightened for more than 10 miles at 40NM. Got fed up with Advice from LBS. Emailed Hope as Hub was Hope. As soon as I mentioned the Shimano drivetrain, they advised me to buy me a new Lock Ring and tighten to 50NM. I tightened the original Shimano lock nut up to 50NM and it loosened before 10 miles again. I got a used Sram Lock Ring from my Local Trail centre for free and tightened it up to 50NM. Been great even since. I also replaced the 11T Shimano Small Cog just in case as it was skipping with the new chain.The rest of the Cassette was fine. I emailed Hope back to thank them and they replied "looks like a faulty lock ring was responsible."
After all the bad advice and at least £250 later it was sorted by an FOC SRAM lock ring.
At least its a cheap try out if you have a friend with a Torque Wrench.
All the best.
Don’t be too thin skinned here on the big internet, the majority here do not write stuff to insult people. Many, including myself, is not a native English speaker and could be misunderstood.
When that is said mr. humorroom have a point, be nice to your driveline and it will last. I have more than 1500 km on 1 cassette + 2 chains and still showing less than .50 wear. It’s all about how you ride and treat your driveline, I’m riding in all conditions but show love to the chain/cassette/chainring
Karsten
33red
New Member
Ya there are many factors, we can do our part. At 3,200 kms my cassette looks brand new. We all make mistakes, hopefully we learn.Don’t be too thin skinned here on the big internet, the majority here do not write stuff to insult people. Many, including myself, is not a native English speaker and could be misunderstood.
When that is said mr. humorroom have a point, be nice to your driveline and it will last. I have more than 1500 km on 1 cassette + 2 chains and still showing less than .50 wear. It’s all about how you ride and treat your driveline, I’m riding in all conditions but show love to the chain/cassette/chainring
Karsten
Just wipe down the chain properly when cleaning the bike after each ride. apply new lube to the rollers and wipe off the excess.
too much lube is bad too. (attracts dirt and ends up a grinding paste).
do this and ease off the cranks every gear shift and you'll get 5x the life out of your chain/cassette.
Ps. Make sure your mech's B-tension screw is adjusted properly. Chain slip in the smallest sprockets happens way earlier if the top jockey is too far from the smallest sprockets (not enough chain wrap) Did your LBS check this?
If you still end up wearing out cassettes regularly consider using a 10 speed shifter/mech/cassette and chain set-up.
a new deore 10 speed cassette can be had online for £30-40 (depending whether 11-36 or 11-42) and chains for a tenner.
durability is actually better than 11 or 12 speed.
too much lube is bad too. (attracts dirt and ends up a grinding paste).
do this and ease off the cranks every gear shift and you'll get 5x the life out of your chain/cassette.
Ps. Make sure your mech's B-tension screw is adjusted properly. Chain slip in the smallest sprockets happens way earlier if the top jockey is too far from the smallest sprockets (not enough chain wrap) Did your LBS check this?
If you still end up wearing out cassettes regularly consider using a 10 speed shifter/mech/cassette and chain set-up.
a new deore 10 speed cassette can be had online for £30-40 (depending whether 11-36 or 11-42) and chains for a tenner.
durability is actually better than 11 or 12 speed.
- Thread starter
- #38
Mine is a 10 speed, the deraileur is set up properly including the 'B' screw and the clutch is on. Took it for a 30 mile ride after i picked it up and it didn't slip once but i only used eco mode. Went for another 30 mile ride yesterday and it started slipping again even in eco mode. Last 1.7 miles were hell as the battery went flat and it was mainly up hill.
I don't think 59 miles is too bad for a 500wh battery and a Yamaha motor, admittedly mainly flat sandy promenades and some dirt tracks and two squirts of full power to get up two 860 ft climbs. Previously i have riden in power mode continuously and flattened the battery in 19 miles
33red
New Member
I suggest you check that cassette regularly. If you pick up some branch some wood might get between the cogs and that might shorten his life. I use a knife to clean the mess between the cogs when needed. Also turn your chain with motor off, listen to make sure your chain is not rubbing like not precisely where it should be, your hanger might be just a bit off and if you have a clutch make sure it is on. You can check many things on you tube. Happy trails.
Are you talking about new parts just fitted?
What?
on your worn drivetrain?
or a new drivetrain?
or did you only replace the chain on an overly worn cassette?
If your chain is worn. your cassette will be too. If the wear is at the point where the chain is slipping on the cassette sprockets you def need to replace BOTH together. (and possibly the chainring if it looks worn too)
I've seriously no idea what you're actually talking about now.
- Thread starter
- #41
When i picked it up from the shop it still had the worn cassette and chain on as Giant refused a warranty claim. I rode it with the worn cassette and chain for two 30 mile rides in eco mode it only slipped on the second ride so i'm guessing the LBS had checked and adjusted the H,L and B screws as it was much better than when i took it in. Today i have replaced the cassette and chain with the parts i ordered from Bike discount.de, I have not riden it yet hopefully later.
Have you got a bike stand ? Once you've done it a couple of times it's not too bad checking and adjusting these yourself. If you've not got a stand the "Peasant Strap" works well - just get a ratchet strap/webbing strap round a beam and hook it under your saddle to lift the back wheel off the floor. Then you can easily turn the pedals, change gears, adjust things and make sure everything lines up.
- Thread starter
- #44
Yes I have a bike stand and have adjusted the H and L screws before as well as the indexing. I've just watched a video about the B screw as I had never touched that before.
Buy a new cassette and chain.
Your pics are pointless.
Your pics are pointless.
Pukmeister
Active member
Having now owned my Giant for a short while and got used to it, I'd say the Yamaha motor is very high torque at low cadence and it is all too easy/seductive to lazily up the power settings (instead of setting up in an appropriately low ratio in advance) before a climb, underestimating how much over-assistance is there in the higher power modes. Shifting under power is also likely to lunch a chain and cassette in short order.
I don't think I have yet used (or needed) power above three LEDs on the controller on a climb, I'm no Hulk but have a lot of sympathy for my drive train so pre-emptively select a suitable ratio then up power by a step and increase cadence if still needed. I'm quick to dial the assistance way back again (or off) once back on the level. This also helps to stretch out battery range.
I also clean and lube after each ride, with a dry chain lube and wipe the cassette through with clean lint free rag wrapped over a 12" steel ruler then lightly spray the cassette and derailleur with teflon dry lube, its amazing how much filth and grit you find has collected between the ratios when cleaning.
I don't think I have yet used (or needed) power above three LEDs on the controller on a climb, I'm no Hulk but have a lot of sympathy for my drive train so pre-emptively select a suitable ratio then up power by a step and increase cadence if still needed. I'm quick to dial the assistance way back again (or off) once back on the level. This also helps to stretch out battery range.
I also clean and lube after each ride, with a dry chain lube and wipe the cassette through with clean lint free rag wrapped over a 12" steel ruler then lightly spray the cassette and derailleur with teflon dry lube, its amazing how much filth and grit you find has collected between the ratios when cleaning.
Evolution Stu
E*POWAH Master
I’m over 1000miles on mine and have just measured it at .75% near it’s end so have installed a new chain and cassette.
- Thread starter
- #48
Yes installed new chain and just the worn out sprocket (£2.50) I clean and lube after every ride now so hopefully it will last a bit longer. I've also just bought a Trance E+1 so i won't be using the Dirt E so much now
The Sram rear cassette on the Trance E is silly money so i hope that lasts.
Evolution Stu
E*POWAH Master
Yes installed new chain and just the worn out sprocket (£2.50) I clean and lube after every ride now so hopefully it will last a bit longer. I've also just bought a Trance E+1 so i won't be using the Dirt E so much now
One of the joys of having the lower spec bike. My 10 speed cassette was £23 delivered. ??
Wernher
Active member
After 1600 kilometers my chain and casette is still perfect with wear still at 50%. New chains are between 25 and 50 and replacement is needed at 75. I use Wurth spray-on dry lube and apply it after every wash or after every second or third ride depending on how long it was standing. The benefit is that my gears remain silent and smooth and the gears and sprockets last. Bear in mind that eBikes put more strain on your drive train than a normal bike and by looking after the cleaning and lubrication you'll extend their life. I use a chain measuring tool to ensure that I don't wear the chain out to the point where I damage the sprockets. I've learnt my lesson on that long ago, because then you end up replacing everything with gears jumping.
GrandPaBrogan
⚡ eGeezer ⚡
A bit late chiming in on this topic... but my suggestion is to check out the new eBike specific chains that are now appearing in the market place. They have thicker side plates and are designed to handle the higher torque loads that eBikes generate.
We know that a stretched chain will wreck new sprockets... and old worn-out sprockets with deformed teeth and ovalized gaps will wreck new chains. Which is why the old motorcycle rule-of-thumb recommends that both be changed at the same time. Bicycles (including eBikes) are different though - with multiple rear cogs taking turns, the chain is likely to wear out faster than the cassette.
In most instances, only the teeth at the upper rear quadrant of any cassette cog bears the entire chain load. The bigger the cog, the more teeth end up sharing that load... the smaller the cog, less teeth do the hard work.
A stronger e-Chain shouldn't stretch as quick which in turn should prevent it from chewing up the cassette. There are no e-bike specific cassettes that I know of yet, but it pays to keep an eye out for the smaller cogs which are likely to wear out quicker because of the low number of teeth bearing the load. In actual fact with the smallest 11T and 12T cogs - only 4 or 3 teeth bear the entire chain load at any one moment.... which is why they are manufactured differently of much harder material from the rest of the cassette. On an eBike, these overloaded/overworked teeth will either wear out faster - or if not, will in turn make quick work of stretching a chain... then a stretched chain will eventually wreck the rest of the cassette.
Best to use these smallest sprockets sparingly under full power. Better to shift over to bigger cogs when pedalling to the max on turbo-power mode... as already been suggested in this thread.
We know that a stretched chain will wreck new sprockets... and old worn-out sprockets with deformed teeth and ovalized gaps will wreck new chains. Which is why the old motorcycle rule-of-thumb recommends that both be changed at the same time. Bicycles (including eBikes) are different though - with multiple rear cogs taking turns, the chain is likely to wear out faster than the cassette.
In most instances, only the teeth at the upper rear quadrant of any cassette cog bears the entire chain load. The bigger the cog, the more teeth end up sharing that load... the smaller the cog, less teeth do the hard work.
A stronger e-Chain shouldn't stretch as quick which in turn should prevent it from chewing up the cassette. There are no e-bike specific cassettes that I know of yet, but it pays to keep an eye out for the smaller cogs which are likely to wear out quicker because of the low number of teeth bearing the load. In actual fact with the smallest 11T and 12T cogs - only 4 or 3 teeth bear the entire chain load at any one moment.... which is why they are manufactured differently of much harder material from the rest of the cassette. On an eBike, these overloaded/overworked teeth will either wear out faster - or if not, will in turn make quick work of stretching a chain... then a stretched chain will eventually wreck the rest of the cassette.
Best to use these smallest sprockets sparingly under full power. Better to shift over to bigger cogs when pedalling to the max on turbo-power mode... as already been suggested in this thread.
Last edited:
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Should also stay away from hollow pin chains - unless you have deep pockets and enjoy changing often. Being a big unit @112kg and more of a pedal masher than a spinner I found deformation of hollow pin chains on my conventional bikes after 500-600km on occasion.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Those cogs are knackered. The burrs show that the chain has been engaging on few teeth and pushing the material aside, hence the burrs you can see. The chain running on that is also knackered.
Good Times
Member
Not sure how you can blame Giant for SRAM/Shimano parts wearing out...
Wernher
Active member
I've said it before and I say it again. You have to clean and lube your chain and gears regularly of you want them to last. If you ride in dusty conditions even more often. In my early riding days I also thought chains and cassettes are supposed to last forever. They don't. With eBikes you add weight and power to the mix and you destroy them much earlier than on a normal bike. Things like changing gears under power increases the destruction on these components. Treat your drive train well and it will last. I get around 2000 kilos on a chain before it stretches to the point where you have to replace it. If you replace your cassette in time and before the wear becomes excessive you'll get around three chains before you have to start looking at replacing your cassette, maybe more. The key is to clean your chain thoroughly and lubricate it frequently. Get yourself a chain checker and check your chain everytime you clean your bike. That way you'll know when it becomes an issue. If you replace your chain at .75 to .8% your cassette and chain wheel will be okay and will last long. If you don't you're going to pay the price and will have only yourself to blame.
Obvious things to do are to buy quality chains and if you're riding an eBike to replace with eBike specific chains. If you follow these simple rules you'll have no problems.
Don't expect the chain and cassette and by implication the chain wheel to last forever. These are wearing parts like tyres. How long they last is directly proportional to how you treat them.
Obvious things to do are to buy quality chains and if you're riding an eBike to replace with eBike specific chains. If you follow these simple rules you'll have no problems.
Don't expect the chain and cassette and by implication the chain wheel to last forever. These are wearing parts like tyres. How long they last is directly proportional to how you treat them.
MadManPedal
Member
Just saying Shimano doesn't have e-specific cassette. 11T cog on ebike is butter soft.
MadManPedal
Member
Old guy tried too hard to be young and fast ?
- Thread starter
- #58
This was 17 months ago
I sold the bike last month, went through 2 chains and another cassette. They lasted much longer after i started cleaning and lubing after every ride.
PhilBaker
Well-known member
Hey, what's the issue with Ceramic lube "Ceramic based lube then they are Kryptonite for MTB chainsets"?
I've used Ceramic Lube on my MTB's for 15 years and now use an Ebike specific ceramic lube on my eMTB and have never had any issues. Currently done 1,700 miles on my original drivetrain and the chain is not even close to showing 0.75% wear (I only weigh 75KG).
I don't tend to ride much in wet mud though, I favour fair weather riding so would agree it's not a good wet/muddy lube
MadManPedal
Member
Interesting. Don't tell me you are actually using muc off products?. For me, every single time the chain was skipping, it was on ceramic lube. It doesn't miss.
And I was wondering what is your average speed between every 50 miles? My experience is that ceramic stuff cannot handle high speed and high torque.
.And I was wondering what is your average speed between every 50 miles? My experience is that ceramic stuff cannot handle high speed and high torque.
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