Levo Gen 3 Cascade Link 2022+ Levo Long Shock Kit

[pontoon]

Rockshox says their 2023 shocks are compatible with all known bikes except the kenevo and Commencal Meta TR Power, even though the 230x65 shock uses an aluminum shaft.

That said, I doubt they’ve considered the gen3 levo with an aftermarket link when making that list.
Rockshox told me the 23 super deluxe ultimate rc2t coil is compatible with the stock gen3 levo.

Still waiting to hear back if they’ll give me the go-ahead on the 230x65 on a modified levo.

Source from Rockshox here:

https://support.rockshox.com/hc/en-us/articles/12867427830171-Is-a-RockShox-Super-Deluxe-Coil-or-Deluxe-Coil-rear-shock-compatible-on-my-bike-

 

[Mr. Light]

After having yet another X2 sh!t the bed after just two months I ordered a DHX (thicker shaft than DHX2) and so far am very happy with the performance. It's a great fit with the Cascade Long Shock link, bike keeps getting better and better

 

[Don805]

I been following this thread and haven’t seen anybody having the current problem I am having. I recently put the long shock kit on my 2022 Levo expert along with the e-storia. Rider weight with gear 170 lbs and EXT sent me a 375 and a 400 lbs coil. I went with the 400 lbs, sag came in at 32%.
shock feels plush and typically use all but the last 12 mm of travel which is the point the bottom out damping kicks in. Riding Rocky, steep, technical single tracks with lots of step downs and drops. Shock handles everything great.
The Fox 38 now feels like crap. before the long shock change with the stock x2 fork felt pretty good and I would get all but maybe 8 mm of total fork travel. running 75 psi with 3 token. Now with the long shock kit and coil I switched to 73 psi and 2 token. Fork is only using 140 mm of the 160mm of travel. Front suspension is not balanced with the rear suspension. If I had to some it up I would say the e-storia is somehow taking most of the forces during impacts while the fork just kind of sits there.

How do go about getting the front and back suspension back to working as one / balanced ?

 

[FirstAscent]

I been following this thread and haven’t seen anybody having the current problem I am having. I recently put the long shock kit on my 2022 Levo expert along with the e-storia. Rider weight with gear 170 lbs and EXT sent me a 375 and a 400 lbs coil. I went with the 400 lbs, sag came in at 32%.
shock feels plush and typically use all but the last 12 mm of travel which is the point the bottom out damping kicks in. Riding Rocky, steep, technical single tracks with lots of step downs and drops. Shock handles everything great.
The Fox 38 now feels like crap. before the long shock change with the stock x2 fork felt pretty good and I would get all but maybe 8 mm of total fork travel. running 75 psi with 3 token. Now with the long shock kit and coil I switched to 73 psi and 2 token. Fork is only using 140 mm of the 160mm of travel. Front suspension is not balanced with the rear suspension. If I had to some it up I would say the e-storia is somehow taking most of the forces during impacts while the fork just kind of sits there.

How do go about getting the front and back suspension back to working as one / balanced ?

Very interesting. I have a very similar setup to you but a tad lighter.
2022 turbo Levo Expert, Long shock kit with e-Storia, I’m closer to 160lbs with gear, I was also sent a 375 and 400lb spring.

First true test will be this weekend!
I currently have the 375lb spring on but may switch to the 400, I only did a super quick sag test but will get an accurate measurement tomorrow before deciding which spring to try.

I’ll keep this in mind while testing this weekend.

What are you using to determine you haven’t used full travel of the shock? The bottom out bumper/pad?
Are you in the high or low setting? I’m in low.

What is your headset cup position? I’m in the neutral/0° position.

Actually, I bumped my 38 up to 170mm off travel but I’ll still be able to see how much I’m using.

 

[Ou812]

I been following this thread and haven’t seen anybody having the current problem I am having. I recently put the long shock kit on my 2022 Levo expert along with the e-storia. Rider weight with gear 170 lbs and EXT sent me a 375 and a 400 lbs coil. I went with the 400 lbs, sag came in at 32%.
shock feels plush and typically use all but the last 12 mm of travel which is the point the bottom out damping kicks in. Riding Rocky, steep, technical single tracks with lots of step downs and drops. Shock handles everything great.
The Fox 38 now feels like crap. before the long shock change with the stock x2 fork felt pretty good and I would get all but maybe 8 mm of total fork travel. running 75 psi with 3 token. Now with the long shock kit and coil I switched to 73 psi and 2 token. Fork is only using 140 mm of the 160mm of travel. Front suspension is not balanced with the rear suspension. If I had to some it up I would say the e-storia is somehow taking most of the forces during impacts while the fork just kind of sits there.

How do go about getting the front and back suspension back to working as one / balanced ?

I’d up the travel to 170 and either have it custom tuned or convert it to coil, I’m going coil on mine. I have a smashpot kit waiting to be installed, still haven’t found time to get it done.

 

[BikeBert]

I’d up the travel to 170 and either have it custom tuned or convert it to coil, I’m going coil on mine. I have a smashpot kit waiting to be installed, still haven’t found time to get it done.

Mind that with Smashpot you will not be possible to use all travel without changing shim stack and using lower viscosity oil.

I'm 85 kg (187 lbs) and on my Fox 38 170 mm with Smashpot (40 lbs/in spring), HBO fully open, I cannot get last 30 mm of travel even while dropping to flat (see attached photo).

I will be moving 3 shims and switching to Motorex 10W (49.5 cSt @ 40°) from Fox Gold 20WT (100 cSt @ 40°). Hopefully this will help to get full travel out of my fork.

 

[Alexbn921]

I been following this thread and haven’t seen anybody having the current problem I am having. I recently put the long shock kit on my 2022 Levo expert along with the e-storia. Rider weight with gear 170 lbs and EXT sent me a 375 and a 400 lbs coil. I went with the 400 lbs, sag came in at 32%.
shock feels plush and typically use all but the last 12 mm of travel which is the point the bottom out damping kicks in. Riding Rocky, steep, technical single tracks with lots of step downs and drops. Shock handles everything great.
The Fox 38 now feels like crap. before the long shock change with the stock x2 fork felt pretty good and I would get all but maybe 8 mm of total fork travel. running 75 psi with 3 token. Now with the long shock kit and coil I switched to 73 psi and 2 token. Fork is only using 140 mm of the 160mm of travel. Front suspension is not balanced with the rear suspension. If I had to some it up I would say the e-storia is somehow taking most of the forces during impacts while the fork just kind of sits there.

How do go about getting the front and back suspension back to working as one / balanced ?

You need a stiffer rear spring or speed up compression damping to transfer more load to the front. Or if you are happy with the rear setup, take more tokens out of the fork and decrease compression damping.

 

[Don805]

Very interesting. I have a very similar setup to you but a tad lighter.
2022 turbo Levo Expert, Long shock kit with e-Storia, I’m closer to 160lbs with gear, I was also sent a 375 and 400lb spring.

First true test will be this weekend!
I currently have the 375lb spring on but may switch to the 400, I only did a super quick sag test but will get an accurate measurement tomorrow before deciding which spring to try.

I’ll keep this in mind while testing this weekend.

What are you using to determine you haven’t used full travel of the shock? The bottom out bumper/pad?
Are you in the high or low setting? I’m in low.

What is your headset cup position? I’m in the neutral/0° position.

Actually, I bumped my 38 up to 170mm off travel but I’ll still be able to see how much I’m using.

Used

Very interesting. I have a very similar setup to you but a tad lighter.
2022 turbo Levo Expert, Long shock kit with e-Storia, I’m closer to 160lbs with gear, I was also sent a 375 and 400lb spring.

First true test will be this weekend!
I currently have the 375lb spring on but may switch to the 400, I only did a super quick sag test but will get an accurate measurement tomorrow before deciding which spring to try.

I’ll keep this in mind while testing this weekend.

What are you using to determine you haven’t used full travel of the shock? The bottom out bumper/pad?
Are you in the high or low setting? I’m in low.

What is your headset cup position? I’m in the neutral/0° position.

Actually, I bumped my 38 up to 170mm off travel but I’ll still be able to see how much I’m using.

I used the Reverse components travel and sag indicator . Works great and vary accurate. It has been on my bike for the last month and I been checking travel usage after every ride.
Using the high setting/ neutral headset (stock) Size S3

Reverse Components Releases the Travel & Sag Indicator 2.0 - Pinkbike

The travel and sag indicator 2.0 is updated to work on non-standard/non-piggy-back shocks.

www.pinkbike.com

 

[Don805]

You need a stiffer rear spring or speed up compression damping to transfer more load to the front. Or if you are happy with the rear setup, take more tokens out of the fork and decrease compression damping.

I was thinking same on a stiffer spring but concentered about decreasing the sag. In my. EXT supposedly tuned the shock for my riding weight,Terrain,bike and ability.

Also I forgot to mention HSC is full open and LSC 2 in from full open. I have a fox 36 and 38 and both in my opinion are over dampene.

My bad I left the HSC fully open after rechecking the sag. 5 clicks back and things felt much better even trophied on a local single track.

I guess i learned a lesson, don’t drink double IPA’s will tuning your bike

I still think FOX forks are over damped for riders under 200 lbs.

 

[MM5K]

I been following this thread and haven’t seen anybody having the current problem I am having. I recently put the long shock kit on my 2022 Levo expert along with the e-storia. Rider weight with gear 170 lbs and EXT sent me a 375 and a 400 lbs coil. I went with the 400 lbs, sag came in at 32%.
shock feels plush and typically use all but the last 12 mm of travel which is the point the bottom out damping kicks in. Riding Rocky, steep, technical single tracks with lots of step downs and drops. Shock handles everything great.
The Fox 38 now feels like crap. before the long shock change with the stock x2 fork felt pretty good and I would get all but maybe 8 mm of total fork travel. running 75 psi with 3 token. Now with the long shock kit and coil I switched to 73 psi and 2 token. Fork is only using 140 mm of the 160mm of travel. Front suspension is not balanced with the rear suspension. If I had to some it up I would say the e-storia is somehow taking most of the forces during impacts while the fork just kind of sits there.

How do go about getting the front and back suspension back to working as one / balanced ?

I felt the same thing when I put my E-Storia on. I had both ends feeling balanced, as far as spring rate and damping goes, but the 38 just felt comparably bad, since the rear end felt so good. I installed a Smashpot, which brought both ends much closer inline with each other.

Mind that with Smashpot you will not be possible to use all travel without changing shim stack and using lower viscosity oil.

I'm 85 kg (187 lbs) and on my Fox 38 170 mm with Smashpot (40 lbs/in spring), HBO fully open, I cannot get last 30 mm of travel even while dropping to flat (see attached photo).

I will be moving 3 shims and switching to Motorex 10W (49.5 cSt @ 40°) from Fox Gold 20WT (100 cSt @ 40°). Hopefully this will help to get full travel out of my fork.

View attachment 113633

I think this will largely vary from rider to rider. I weigh 150 lbs and run a 45# spring in the 160mm 38 on my Levo with HBO 4 clicks out, and a 40# spring in the 170mm 38 on my Kenevo SL with HBO 12 clicks out. I use full travel on both, even with 120mL of Fox Gold oil for extra ramp up, and that's with the stock shim setup.

I agree though, that it takes a huge amount of force to bottom it out at 170mm - With that much travel, there's a ton of ramp up from the air compression (it's still a sealed chamber with air). When I say I use full travel, I don't mean all the time. I'm only using ~85-90% of my travel most of the time, but it's just a few particularly harsh huck to flat landings in my local park that I optimize bottom out support for, so I don't break my wrists.

 

[seamarsh]

Thanks, that’s fair enough. I currently have a Nomad with 170/165ish travel (Fox factory stuff) and love it. My thought with the 170 was to try and match the Nomad.

I normally ride a dirt bike, so I’m used to quite a bit more travel than 160/170

If you are slow and timid you definitely don't want a 38.. they don't work well at slow timid trail speeds, it will be an impediment. I just upgraded to a Zeb 170 and it's absolutely amazing but you got to be charging or else the 36 wins out by a long shot.

Just save yourself some money and ride the stock stuff. If you're slow and timid, it'll be 100% perfect out of the box. No need to long shock with this link unless you are going big.. they are designed for going big.

 

[ebikerider]

Mind that with Smashpot you will not be possible to use all travel without changing shim stack and using lower viscosity oil.

I'm 85 kg (187 lbs) and on my Fox 38 170 mm with Smashpot (40 lbs/in spring), HBO fully open, I cannot get last 30 mm of travel even while dropping to flat (see attached photo).

I will be moving 3 shims and switching to Motorex 10W (49.5 cSt @ 40°) from Fox Gold 20WT (100 cSt @ 40°). Hopefully this will help to get full travel out of my fork.

View attachment 113633

Why did you use Fox gold and not use the oil (or one close to the specs) that Vorsprung recommend?

 

[MM5K]

Why did you use Fox gold and not use the oil (or one close to the specs) that Vorsprung recommend?

They do recommend Fox Gold:

 

[ebikerider]

They do recommend Fox Gold:
View attachment 113684

I stand corrected.

 

[pontoon]

If you are slow and timid you definitely don't want a 38.. they don't work well at slow timid trail speeds, it will be an impediment. I just upgraded to a Zeb 170 and it's absolutely amazing but you got to be charging or else the 36 wins out by a long shot.

Just save yourself some money and ride the stock stuff. If you're slow and timid, it'll be 100% perfect out of the box. No need to long shock with this link unless you are going big.. they are designed for going big.

I actually already ordered the 38e 170mm fork and the 2023 rockshox super deluxe ultimate rc2t coil (165mm travel).

I’m upgrading the carbon comp to something better regardless of the travel I choose, so it’s not really much extra cost to choose 170 vs 160.

I would guess I’ll be alright. My current mtb has 170/165mm roughly and I like its travel. My dirt bike has 310/300mm travel. I’ve regretted buying dirt bikes with less diameter forks in the past, and I’ve also regretted not having enough travel on the dirt bike.

 

[seamarsh]

I actually already ordered the 38e 170mm fork and the 2023 rockshox super deluxe ultimate rc2t coil (165mm travel).

I’m upgrading the carbon comp to something better regardless of the travel I choose, so it’s not really much extra cost to choose 170 vs 160.

I would guess I’ll be alright. My current mtb has 170/165mm roughly and I like its travel. My dirt bike has 310/300mm travel. I’ve regretted buying dirt bikes with less diameter forks in the past, and I’ve also regretted not having enough travel on the dirt bike.

Hey it's your money, just pointing out it's a strange way to go if you are a slow timid rider. Maybe one of the reasons is you are over biked, Not underbiked. Big bikes take big speed and big terrain to shine.

I ride dirts bikes, there's no comparison that makes any sense between the two outside of the fact they both have 2 wheels!

Anyway, who cares, enjoy!

 

[pontoon]

Hey it's your money, just pointing out it's a strange way to go if you are a slow timid rider. Maybe one of the reasons is you are over biked, Not underbiked. Big bikes take big speed and big terrain to shine.

I ride dirts bikes, there's no comparison that makes any sense between the two outside of the fact they both have 2 wheels!

Anyway, who cares, enjoy!

They both have two wheels, front and rear suspension, knobby tires, ride in the dirt, require line choice, yeah no comparison. That’s probably why I was faster than my friends the first time I ever rode a mtb.

Over biked on 170mm travel? Ok whatever. I can and do bottom out 170, even though I ride at moderate speeds. I like the travel, I’ve demoed 160 and 170mm and prefer 170mm, and that’s all that matters.

 

[seamarsh]

They both have two wheels, front and rear suspension, knobby tires, ride in the dirt, require line choice, yeah no comparison. That’s probably why I was faster than my friends the first time I ever rode a mtb.

Over biked on 170mm travel? Ok whatever. I can and do bottom out 170, even though I ride at moderate speeds. I like the travel, I’ve demoed 160 and 170mm and prefer 170mm, and that’s all that matters.

Yep, whatever works for you.

 

[Cb750stu]

Hey it's your money, just pointing out it's a strange way to go if you are a slow timid rider. Maybe one of the reasons is you are over biked, Not underbiked. Big bikes take big speed and big terrain to shine.

I ride dirts bikes, there's no comparison that makes any sense between the two outside of the fact they both have 2 wheels!

Anyway, who cares, enjoy!

Don't slow timid riders eventually get faster

 

[seamarsh]

Don't slow timid riders eventually get faster

Not necessarily... depends how old he is.

 

[FirstAscent]

@Don805 i got my bike out for the first time after building it and with the E-Storia on the bike, was not happy with the 38, it was pretty harsh. And I was riding rough terrain at speed too, not taking it easy.
Not to say it’s a bad fork, but definitely going to need some adjustments.
I do already have an avalanche hybrid coil coming but probably another month out still. In the meantime I’ll be playing with the settings to get it to feel better.
Currently running about 27% sag on the fork. I’d say I did use as much travel as I expected today though. No big enough drops or huck to flats haha. But sustained chunky/techy downhill terrain

 

[ebikerider]

@Don805 i got my bike out for the first time after building it and with the E-Storia on the bike, was not happy with the 38, it was pretty harsh. And I was riding rough terrain at speed too, not taking it easy.
Not to say it’s a bad fork, but definitely going to need some adjustments.
I do already have an avalanche hybrid coil coming but probably another month out still. In the meantime I’ll be playing with the settings to get it to feel better.
Currently running about 27% sag on the fork. I’d say I did use as much travel as I expected today though. No big enough drops or huck to flats haha. But sustained chunky/techy downhill terrain

Have you tried putting more pressure in the fork to hold it up a little? 27% sag is a little deep imo and will have you using the more progessive part of the air curve too readily which can be felt as harshness if its constant.

 

[MM5K]

@Don805 i got my bike out for the first time after building it and with the E-Storia on the bike, was not happy with the 38, it was pretty harsh. And I was riding rough terrain at speed too, not taking it easy.
Not to say it’s a bad fork, but definitely going to need some adjustments.
I do already have an avalanche hybrid coil coming but probably another month out still. In the meantime I’ll be playing with the settings to get it to feel better.
Currently running about 27% sag on the fork. I’d say I did use as much travel as I expected today though. No big enough drops or huck to flats haha. But sustained chunky/techy downhill terrain

Agree with ebike rider - Sounds counterintuitive, but it should feel better with more air pressure, due to the reasons he mentioned. It's more supple off the top than in the middle. Before I swapped out for the Smashpot, the stock air spring in my 38 was still pretty good. I weigh 150 lbs and was running it at 160mm with 100 psi and 3 tokens.

 

[FirstAscent]

Have you tried putting more pressure in the fork to hold it up a little? 27% sag is a little deep imo and will have you using the more progessive part of the air curve too readily which can be felt as harshness if its constant.

Agree with ebike rider - Sounds counterintuitive, but it should feel better with more air pressure, due to the reasons he mentioned. It's more supple off the top than in the middle. Before I swapped out for the Smashpot, the stock air spring in my 38 was still pretty good. I weigh 150 lbs and was running it at 160mm with 100 psi and 3 tokens.

Thanks guys, today was the first test so I’ll try that. Makes sense what you’re saying. I’ll lower the sag to around 20% (increase pressure) and try that for the next test/ride

 

[Don805]

Thanks guys, today was the first test so I’ll try that. Makes sense what you’re saying. I’ll lower the sag to around 20% (increase pressure) and try that for the next test/ride

I did up the compression on the e-storia and it made a difference with balancing the bike out front to rear. I still think the 38 can be a love hate scenario. I am curranty running about 24% sag with HSC open & LSC 4 in from open. I agree with what MM5K said with upping the air and I have found this works pretty good on rough high speed, rocky terrain. What I don't like with the higher psi is the lack of grip on lose over hard, marbly, none berm corners. To me the front end feels like it is always on the verge of wanting to wash out. Where I ride all the trails are dry and lose so front end traction and predictability sits high on my list. Another thing nobody really talks about is how the psi can increase in my case by as much as 4 psi after really long (15 min+) rough down hills. My sag will drop into the 22% range. ??

I decided to try a coil in the front so I order a smashpot with a 40# spring. Have been told the dampener may also need to be modified ?

 

[MM5K]

I did up the compression on the e-storia and it made a difference with balancing the bike out front to rear. I still think the 38 can be a love hate scenario. I am curranty running about 24% sag with HSC open & LSC 4 in from open. I agree with what MM5K said with upping the air and I have found this works pretty good on rough high speed, rocky terrain. What I don't like with the higher psi is the lack of grip on lose over hard, marbly, none berm corners. To me the front end feels like it is always on the verge of wanting to wash out. Where I ride all the trails are dry and lose so front end traction and predictability sits high on my list. Another thing nobody really talks about is how the psi can increase in my case by as much as 4 psi after really long (15 min+) rough down hills. My sag will drop into the 22% range. ??

I decided to try a coil in the front so I order a smashpot with a 40# spring. Have been told the dampener may also need to be modified ?

Temperature variance (PV = nRT) is one of my biggest reasons for loving coil - it doesn't vary. That's also one of the reasons why I always like having both ends matched as coil/coil or air/air. With full air, at least the stiffness of both ends increases or decreases by the same percentage, with respect to temperature. With the common configuration of air fork / coil shock, I don't like how the front changes, while the rear remains constant.

Also just throwing this out there, since most guys don't weigh less than me - I weigh 150 lbs and run a 45# spring in the 160mm 38 on my Levo, and I run a 40# spring in the 170mm 38 on my KSL, and I for sure wouldn't want any softer. I'm right on the verge of going the next spring rate up.

 

[Don805]

Temperature variance (PV = nRT) is one of my biggest reasons for loving coil - it doesn't vary. That's also one of the reasons why I always like having both ends matched as coil/coil or air/air. With full air, at least the stiffness of both ends increases or decreases by the same percentage, with respect to temperature. With the common configuration of air fork / coil shock, I don't like how the front changes, while the rear remains constant.

Also just throwing this out there, since most guys don't weigh less than me - I weigh 150 lbs and run a 45# spring in the 160mm 38 on my Levo, and I run a 40# spring in the 170mm 38 on my KSL, and I for sure wouldn't want any softer. I'm right on the verge of going the next spring rate up.

Yes I am a little worried about a 40# spring but that's where the Vorsprung calculator ended up. Have you
Have you tried the calculator? is the calculator correct?

Smashpot - Fork Coil Conversion System Kit

Transform Your Fork with the Smashpot Coil Conversion System Kit Upgrade your suspension with the revolutionary Smashpot Fork Coil Conversion System Kit. This kit allows you to seamlessly switch from an air spring to a coil spring setup, providing a new level of control and responsiveness on the...

www.vorsprungsuspension.com

 

[Oakhills]

I think the Smashpot spring calculator starts to suggest softer spring rates as your age increases. I guess older people don’t charge as hard as the younger riders!

 

[MM5K]

Yes I am a little worried about a 40# spring but that's where the Vorsprung calculator ended up. Have you
Have you tried the calculator? is the calculator correct?

Smashpot - Fork Coil Conversion System Kit

Transform Your Fork with the Smashpot Coil Conversion System Kit Upgrade your suspension with the revolutionary Smashpot Fork Coil Conversion System Kit. This kit allows you to seamlessly switch from an air spring to a coil spring setup, providing a new level of control and responsiveness on the...

www.vorsprungsuspension.com

View attachment 113984

I did use their calculator, which put me on the spring rates I mentioned above, but I'm right on the border, as the recommended spring rate changes, if I alter my body weight by just a couple pounds.

I've also tried a 50# spring on my 160mm Levo, which feels good, but only when totally charging at 100%. Otherwise, it's a bit stiff when I'm not fully on the gas. With the spring rates I currently use, I just ended up adding a bit more compression, and it feels great.

I'd probably order the 45# spring as well if I were you, since it's nice to be able to give both a try and see what feels best.

To note though, I was running the 160mm 38 with 100psi and 3 tokens, so if you were running your stock configuration any softer than that, maybe the 40# would feel good.

 

[Don805]

I did use their calculator, which put me on the spring rates I mentioned above, but I'm right on the border, as the recommended spring rate changes, if I alter my body weight by just a couple pounds.

I've also tried a 50# spring on my 160mm Levo, which feels good, but only when totally charging at 100%. Otherwise, it's a bit stiff when I'm not fully on the gas. With the spring rates I currently use, I just ended up adding a bit more compression, and it feels great.

I'd probably order the 45# spring as well if I were you, since it's nice to be able to give both a try and see what feels best.

To note though, I was running the 160mm 38 with 100psi and 3 tokens, so if you were running your stock configuration any softer than that, maybe the 40# would feel good.

Your right being old did lower the spring rate. I agree with also ordering the 45# spring. I do like the idea of be able to dialing in some compression compared to having to run it wide open.

Thanks for the input.