Buyer beware! What should you consider when buying second hand?

[shredder]

Hi folks, hoping to mine some of your experience/advice when considering my first ebike purchase.

I'm confident when it comes to second hand, regular bikes. What to look for, red flags etc. But I'm in two minds about a second hand ebike. It seems like most eBikes have had some issue with motor/battery and have been warrantied even if they've been well looked after. Obviously the advantage of buying second hand is the value for money, so assuming the worst and the motor/battery need replaced soon after buying, what's the break even point for buying second hand, instead of the premium for brand new with warranty?

Anyone have any horror stories from either side? Or good experiences?

Thanks!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Every bike/owner is different. You can probably get a general grasp of things, but you don't know for sure as with buying anything second hand.

As you say, the price will be lower, possibly considerably lower, than new.

A lot of warranties in the bike world aren't transferable. BUT ! The warranty on the motor/battery should still be supported directly by Bosch/Shimano/Brose whomever for 2 years. After that, look for things where you know you can get things repaired.

Battieries are generally very sad when it comes to that, but there are some places.

Motors, there are, for example places like Performance line bearings who can repair motors.

Otherwise you're looking at buying new ones - but you've hopefully covered that in the cost of the second hand bike over a new one. Lets face it most ebikes will still be fairly new in the scheme of things and they are generally made pretty well in this day and age.

Only to give some examples, my 2019 Kenevo's had the crap knocked out of it, has all new bearings and rides like new.

My Focus Jam2 has been ridden reasonably hard, but if anything rides better than new and other than a scratch on the Purion - is like new.

Yup, things have scratches on, but lets face it, it's a mountain bike - so there's a good chance you'll add your own war wounds to it 10 minutes down the trail.

 

[RustyMTB]

My Focus Jam2 has been ridden reasonably hard, but if anything rides better than new

Damn straight boy.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It might be psychosomatic, but I really think the Focus has got better with time .. (maybe fox suspension sometimes needs the sh1t kicking out of it when it's been assembled incorrectly ..........)

I'm selling both of them as I don't have space, or the time. I once imagined I'd keep all my bikes and hang them from ceilings in the chateau, but it's dumb and not going to happen ....

I'm only selling them due to small minded lust of newer models. I won't go any quicker or further .. well, maybe further .. I seem to have reached peak quicker - mechanics can only compensate so much for ineptitude !

I think it's a good time to buy second hand, I have mine as the cheapest in France just to get rid of them and have absolutely zero interest.

 

[shredder]

Thanks very much for your input, really appreciate it

 

[steve_sordy]

@shredder Welcome to the Forum! I get the strong impression (this is not an analysis, it's an opinion) that buying a second hand emtb is a bit of a lottery. I'm very sad to have to say it, but based upon what I read in this forum, it has to be. I have only sold one emtb and it was flawless and sold as such at 3500 miles, with confidence, but I have to accept that it may have failed the day afterwards. It didn't, or I would never have heard the end of it from the buyer! He got a good deal and so might you; I'm sure that most do so.

Likewise, I have had zero problems over almost 2100 miles on my current emtb, but it could fail tomorrow! I'm only counting battery, motor, display, software etc as failures. So far so good.

But if you scan the threads on here there are no end of motor failures, battery problems and so forth. Many are on multiple motors (but they seem to be mostly those coming with a Specialized bike). I know other motors fail but they don't seem to be as common. Then there are the Shimano motors! I have not done a deep analysis, but they seem to run ok until, all of a sudden they don't, and if they are out of warranty, you have an irreparable motor. If within warranty you might be OK or you might not as you might still not get a new motor - it all depends up who Shimano feel like being nice to today. Let me be clear I have had two flawless Shimano motors over 5500 miles and my personal experience is to be envied (or is it normal?) I honestly don't know whether I have just been lucky or maybe it's because I don't ride through deep water, wash with power hoses, spoof the motor into thinking it's going slower than it really is, and other chicanery. Likewise, I don't do massive drops, not even medium drops, so that must reduce the hammer onto the bearings. Who knows?

Based upon what I have read in this emtb Forum, I would say the following: Don't get a Speccy at any price. Only get a bike with a Shimano motor if it is well within warranty (check it and if it is not a transferable warranty don't buy). After that pretty much any emtb with pretty much any motor should see you right. I am assuming that my little moan at Speccy and all Shimano motors may (even though I have only ever owned Shimano and had 100% success) smoke out a few spirited and closely argued objections in favour of the motors used by Speccy and of course the Shimano motors. PS: I very much doubt that I will be buying another bike that sports a Shimano motor, not because I don't like the motors, because I do. But because I have come to dislike their customer service policy. I will vote with my wallet and probably buy a Bosch that at least has the merit of being repairable! (There are other motor brands).

But most of all, do your homework!!!

 

[Ambodave]

Hello,
I sold my trek rail 21 end last year with 4k on it in less than 2 years.
I got way less than I was expecting because of the unknown motor/ battery issues. My bikes are in great condition and look new but the electric issue is what worries people. I know it would worry me if I bought 2nd hand.

 

[Expidia]

I owned 3 emtb's over a 3 month period as I didn't know much about them and was working my way up. The 2nd one I sold was a 2021 Giant I bought new. I was stunned that Giant does not allow any warranty transfers. The way to stick it too them (F' Giant) is if you buy one that still has a warranty left don't register it until the warranty is over. Cut an agreement with the seller that if something breaks or your motor goes that he will meet you down at aGaint store with his orginal invoice and he can have them do the warranty work as if he still owns it. I personally, just because of their sh*tty non transferrable (this should be illegal) warranty would never buy another Giant. Trek's warranty is transferrable as I'm sure other brands are.

 

[shredder]

Amazing @steve_sordy thank you! For your reply.

In terms of due diligence is there anything which I should check? From the last few posts it actually seems like mileage isn't a huge factor. Is it battery health and charge cycles from a diagnostics report that are the main things to look for?

 

[Bummers]

Personally I'd only buy second hand if it had a Bosch motor as replacements can be bought plus there are independent service places that can overhaul the motor.

 

[robbydobs]

I've got a Shimano powered Commencal Meta Power with 3500 miles now just out of warranty but working ok.

A new motor is 900, and the now 2 year old battery is pretty knackered too, It used 50% capacity just doing 6 miles / 1300ft in turbo last week!! A new battery is 450 ish. So thats 1350 to replace those bits!

But you can get a whole brand new bike for 2779 here...
Neuron-ON

So I think it's barely worth anything! TBH I'd probably split mine as all the actual components are good, just the motor/battery that are the issue. Such a terrible amount of waste.

During the COVID bike shortage, 2nd hand ebikes sold for a lot of money, but that has passed now, and a lot of the 2nd hand ones are massively overpriced IMO.

I'd check it has a warranty that will be valid. Derestricting might have effected that, I am not sure. Also check battery health.
And after doing all that, I'd seriously consider getting a new one, even if its bottom of the range.

 

[RustyMTB]

Agree with that. Bosch is the sweet spot for ownership at present imo. Works very well & easy to live with.

The main points are covered above. Most brands don't extend warranties to 2nd owners which is scandalous, motors & to a lesser extent, batteries can be troublesome & expensive and beyond that, it's all just normal bike stuff.

ETA I mean Bosch for full fat bikes, some of the lightweight stuff coming along now looks very nice indeed.

 

[Tubby G]

It might be psychosomatic, but I really think the Focus has got better with time .. (maybe fox suspension sometimes needs the sh1t kicking out of it when it's been assembled incorrectly ..........)

I'm selling both of them as I don't have space, or the time. I once imagined I'd keep all my bikes and hang them from ceilings in the chateau, but it's dumb and not going to happen ....

I'm only selling them due to small minded lust of newer models. I won't go any quicker or further .. well, maybe further .. I seem to have reached peak quicker - mechanics can only compensate so much for ineptitude !

I think it's a good time to buy second hand, I have mine as the cheapest in France just to get rid of them and have absolutely zero interest.

So what new bike have you got your eye on then ? I’m guessing the Orbea Wild ?

 

[RustyMTB]

Moreover what do you want for the Jam? (I've always secretly been jealous of the colourway!)

 

[Zimmerframe]

So what new bike have you got your eye on then ? I’m guessing the Orbea Wild ?

That would be telling !

Bosch, yes ... but not the Wild.

Moreover what do you want for the Jam? (I've always secretly been jealous of the colourway!)

Good question ... If I was even remotely sensible I'd just keep it as it does everything you could ever want and the next gen looks fugly !

It's just had new pads .. it must be worth more than new now !

Probably somewhere in the region of €4200 ... What's that £3800 ish ?! Including the Switchgrade as it probably won't be compatible with the new dropper.

 

[Rando_12345]

Lots of good advice, I think as others have alluded to: make sure you have a bike shop nearby that deals with the motor you plan to buy. For as much bad press as shimano get, you can go to a shimano service center with a proof of purchase and I would imagine shimano will likely treat the repairs as any other, the shop will just charge you for labour. (I personally would be more optimistic with a pre 2020 shimano e8000 with low mileage than a Bosch, but that's a biased example)

It's heartbreaking that levo's are basically a no go second hand, no idea how the shop and Spesh would treat you. On top of that, my local spesh dealer is selling 2nd hand ebikes at outrageous prices.

Generally speaking, it is very much a buyer's market: I am selling my regular bike which has literally a handful on rides on it, getting very few offers despite a heartbreakingly low price. At this point it isn't financially worth it to sell it, but I need the space in my small garage That being said, I looked at prices of second hand ebikes and I think a lot of sellers are very optimistic...

 

[K78]

I’m in the same position. Used prices compared to new make buying used pointless.

People are trying to sell used Levos for over £4K when a new one is £3700.

 

[steve_sordy]

Amazing @steve_sordy thank you! For your reply.

In terms of due diligence is there anything which I should check? From the last few posts it actually seems like mileage isn't a huge factor. Is it battery health and charge cycles from a diagnostics report that are the main things to look for?

Others are better to advise you on what to look for in those sorts of checks. I have only ever had Shimano motors and the software they come with is not good for that at all. It has even come to the stage with Shimano that according to the latest information that if you use some non-Shimano software to examine what state your battery is in, it will void your warranty and you risk bricking the bike and with zero appeal!!!! I would be happy for someone, anyone to correct me on that.

 

[fenwick458]

is there reliability poll on the forum? I know 8 people with e-bikes, and 5 of them have had a new motor or battery replaced under warranty in the first 2 years. I've had a new battery on my Gain and new motor on the Wild, so if we count my 2 bikes thats a 7 out of 10, or a 70% failure rate. Make of that what you will

 

[jbrown15]

You could always ask the seller if he'd be willing to help with any warranty claims if you live close to them.

 

[robbydobs]

It's not so much about reliability, but repairability.

Shimano can't be repaired at all really, it's just 900+gbp for a new motor.

I *think* Bosch and Specialized/Brose can be repaired - maybe some owners can confirm.

It would also be great to hear what ebike motor repair place would reccomend.

 

[Rando_12345]

This might depend on you location/country, I don't know of any repair shops in France but there seems to be one in the UK.

Shimano: for the original owner they will 100% change it free of charge within 2 years, I have heard numerous accounts of people getting their motor replaced 3-4 years into ownership. I had to buy a new one after 4 years and 15,000km as they said the mileage was too high for them to cover it out of warranty. Because so many brands and especially direct to consumer brands use shimano, I think even second hand it would not be so difficult to hand in the bike with the receipt in the name of the original buyer (i.e. they wouldn't check your ID or anything).

For Specialised, for the original owner you will get first class treatment, I do not know about second hand buyers. My concern here is that with the brose motor I know people that have gone through 5 in a year. At some point, there is no way a shop that you did not buy the bike in is going to do multiple motor swaps without charging you expensive labour fees...

My understanding based on one local shop here is that Bosch dealers actually have to carry a motor in the shop, so that if a customer comes in with an issue they can be sorted within a few days. Not sure if that policy applies everywhere, and also no idea how that applies to second hand bikes.

 

[steve_sordy]

Seems like Bosch is winning on points so far.

 

[K78]

Seems like Bosch is winning on points so far.

Whyte and Cube bikes are terrible value nearly new. The warranty doesn’t transfer.

If buying used, I’d rather buy a older/beat up bike and replace the battery and motor.

 

[steve_sordy]

Whyte and Cube bikes are terrible value nearly new. The warranty doesn’t transfer.

If buying used, I’d rather buy a older/beat up bike and replace the battery and motor.

You are probably correct; I haven't been keeping tabs on their used prices. My comments about Bosch motors "winning on points" were aimed at the number of recommendations so far and the ability to service and repair them, not the bikes they sit on.
If those two bikes have Bosch motors, then do you think that "Bosch repairability" might be contributing to the higher price? (The opposite of "rubbish value"). If this is true then maybe it is a sign of market forces finally starting to work.

 

[K78]

You are probably correct; I haven't been keeping tabs on their used prices. My comments about Bosch motors "winning on points" were aimed at the number of recommendations so far and the ability to service and repair them, not the bikes they sit on.
If those two bikes have Bosch motors, then do you think that "Bosch repairability" might be contributing to the higher price? (The opposite of "rubbish value"). If this is true then maybe it is a sign of market forces finally starting to work.

I really wanted to buy a used Bosch bike but give up. No doubt they are the best motor.

Well used Whyte bikes are £2500-£7000 on eBay. Not seen one sell in the last 8 weeks off my watch list.

I’ve seen a few cube bikes for £2-3k but I don’t want carbon. Especially one that has a 2 year frame warranty for the original owner only. Not really a vote of confidence in their own frames.

From what I can see, 99% of emtb’s on eBay are massively overpriced And the market is over saturated.

 

[steve_sordy]

........................

Well used Whyte bikes are £2500-£7000 on eBay. Not seen one sell in the last 8 weeks off my watch list.

.........................

Make the eBay sellers an offer. If they haven't sold for 8 weeks, they might get quite excited at your offer. eBay allow this and have the in-built mechanism to help you do it and for the buyers to respond.

I did it once as a seller and provoked a frenzy of activity that ended up in me selling the bike for £2950 instead of £3150. Sometimes people just need a prod.

 

[Another One]

I really wanted to buy a used Bosch bike but give up. No doubt they are the best motor.

Well used Whyte bikes are £2500-£7000 on eBay. Not seen one sell in the last 8 weeks off my watch list.

I’ve seen a few cube bikes for £2-3k but I don’t want carbon. Especially one that has a 2 year frame warranty for the original owner only. Not really a vote of confidence in their own frames.

From what I can see, 99% of emtb’s on eBay are massively overpriced And the market is over saturated.

What Whyte or Cube have you owned to make that comment I think both brands are excellent value.

 

[K78]

What Whyte or Cube have you owned to make that comment I think both brands are excellent value.

You don’t need to own either to have an opinion.

Whyte bikes are great but ridiculously priced used. The fact the warranty is non transferable on a £7k-£10k push bike is embarrassing, and makes the £10k bike worth half that a day after you buy it. Not the 75% of new rrp people are trying to sell 2 year old bikes for on eBay.

Cubes frame warranty is total dogshit. It’s laughable. It’s less than half what you get on a £300 Raleigh bike from Halfords.
Not reassuring with their history of frame failures.

The Specialized warranty makes both companies look amateur at best.

People have a ridiculous idea of what their used e mountain bikes are worth. Batteries degrade, the motors are unreliable and they have a very hard life due to what they are.

 

[Another One]

You don’t need to own either to have an opinion.

Whyte bikes are great but ridiculously priced used. The fact the warranty is non transferable on a £7k-£10k push bike is embarrassing, and makes the £10k bike worth half that a day after you buy it. Not the 75% of new rrp people are trying to sell 2 year old bikes for on eBay.

Cubes frame warranty is total dogshit. It’s laughable. It’s less than half what you get on a £300 Raleigh bike from Halfords.
Not reassuring with their history of frame failures.

The Specialized warranty makes both companies look amateur at best.

People have a ridiculous idea of what their used e mountain bikes are worth. Batteries degrade, the motors are unreliable and they have a very hard life due to what they are.

What a load of rubbish your problem is you need the bike to be cheaper I get that, I am sure if you search hard enough you will find something in your price range.