Busted motor!

[Stumpy]

So I was out on my Levo this sunny morning and really enjoying the fact it was my first ride of the week in the daylight, made even better by all the rain we had yesterday making the tracks feel "just right".

I'd just completed one of those DH runs that makes you laugh to yourself and think, "I f*@king love this bike". As I turned the corner to go up the next hill the motor let out this high pitch scream - the only way I can describe it was like when your old Hoover used to slip its belt and the motor/spindle would suddenly go 1000's revs quicker and scream like a banshee....

"F*@k" I thought. Not so much that the motor had popped but because I was at the bottom of a big hill, in the middle of the forest, miles from anywhere As it happens, apart from using the lower half of my cassette more in one ride than I have for the whole time I've owned the bike, the ride home wasn't too bad, hard work in places but manageable (but not fun).

So on the way home, I'm thinking to myself, I've only just my bike back after it being in my LBS for 1.5 weeks with some warranty repairs and now I'm going to lose it again while the LBS gets the motor sorted out ....then I thought to myself, call Chris at Berkshire Cycles, if anyone can get it sorted out on a Sunday, he can.

I tried the shop at 10 when they opened (telling them I know Rob, you know, @Rob Hancill from EMTB forums!), and a nice lady explained Chris wasn't in today but there was someone else that could help me but he was on another call, so we agreed he would call me back once free. At 10:35 the shop called me back and when I answered, it's Chris on the line. I explain the problem to him and he asked if I can bring the bike in during the week as he wasn't planning on working today. I explained I could but it would mean taking time off work (etc.) and it would be much better for me to get it sorted today (etc.). Chris said, "oh go on then, bring it in today but get here as early as you can," or words to that effect

After loading the bike up and a 1h40min drive I eventually arrived at 12:15. Chris greeted me and took me and the bike through to the workshop. He fired the bike up and agreed the motor was toast and proceeded to chuck a new one in for me. Less than an hour later I was back in the car on the way home! (well, it would have been less than an hour if I hadn't have stayed around talking to Chris and a guy in the shop that just bought a new Kenevo talking about everything from BLEvo, tyres, mudguards and suspension.)

As you've heard a number of times if you're a regular "forumer", Chris and the guys at Berkshire Cycles do go that mile extra and really look after the customer, like coming in on their Sunday off (and his Mrs was in the shop waiting for him to finish)

I couldn't have ended the saga happier

PS: I haven't had the chance to test yet but I'm hoping it will output the same peak motor watts my old motor used to (~770) - I'll report back tomorrow.

EDIT: forgot to add this photo of Chris in his “not going to work clothes”

 

[Thewootts]

So my motor shat itself today as well, i was told anything up till 2 weeks. This was from a very large specialized dealer. I'm also being charged for the privilege of them fitting the motor as I did my purchase it from them. Although specialized will be paying them for the repair anyway. ?


That's good that he carry's spare motors in stock.

personally i think this will be the first of many motors until the warranty period expires. Glad i purchased new.

Great result for you.

 

[Thewootts]

I think reliability on these motors is going to be a big issue ?

 

[Donnie797]

So I was out on my Levo this sunny morning and really enjoying the fact it was my first ride of the week in the daylight, made even better by all the rain we had yesterday making the tracks feel "just right".

I'd just completed one of those DH runs that makes you laugh to yourself and think, "I f*@king love this bike". As I turned the corner to go up the next hill the motor let out this high pitch scream - the only way I can describe it was like when your old Hoover used to slip its belt and the motor/spindle would suddenly go 1000's revs quicker and scream like a banshee....

"F*@k" I thought. Not so much that the motor had popped but because I was at the bottom of a big hill, in the middle of the forest, miles from anywhere As it happens, apart from using the lower half of my cassette more in one ride than I have for the whole time I've owned the bike, the ride home wasn't too bad, hard work in places but manageable (but not fun).

So on the way home, I'm thinking to myself, I've only just my bike back after it being in my LBS for 1.5 weeks with some warranty repairs and now I'm going to lose it again while the LBS gets the motor sorted out ....then I thought to myself, call Chris at Berkshire Cycles, if anyone can get it sorted out on a Sunday, he can.

I tried the shop at 10 when they opened (telling them I know Rob, you know, @Rob Hancill from EMTB forums!), and a nice lady explained Chris wasn't in today but there was someone else that could help me but he was on another call, so we agreed he would call me back once free. At 10:35 the shop called me back and when I answered, it's Chris on the line. I explain the problem to him and he asked if I can bring the bike in during the week as he wasn't planning on working today. I explained I could but it would mean taking time off work (etc.) and it would be much better for me to get it sorted today (etc.). Chris said, "oh go on then, bring it in today but get here as early as you can," or words to that effect

After loading the bike up and a 1h40min drive I eventually arrived at 12:15. Chris greeted me and took me and the bike through to the workshop. He fired the bike up and agreed the motor was toast and proceeded to chuck a new one in for me. Less than an hour later I was back in the car on the way home! (well, it would have been less than an hour if I hadn't have stayed around talking to Chris and a guy in the shop that just bought a new Kenevo talking about everything from BLEvo, tyres, mudguards and suspension.)

As you've heard a number of times if you're a regular "forumer", Chris and the guys at Berkshire Cycles do go that mile extra and really look after the customer, like coming in on their Sunday off (and his Mrs was in the shop waiting for him to finish)

I couldn't have ended the saga happier

PS: I haven't had the chance to test yet but I'm hoping it will output the same peak motor watts my old motor used to (~770) - I'll report back tomorrow.

oh, glad they sorted it out that fast, but not good to hear about your toasted motor @Stumpy . Did Chris say anything about the reason for the toast?

 

[Stumpy]

oh, glad they sorted it out that fast, but not good to hear about your toasted motor @Stumpy . Did Chris say anything about the reason for the toast?

He didn’t know for sure but guessed it’s just a slipping belt, for whatever reason. His approach is to replace the motor and send the busted one back to Spesh - makes for a very happy customer ?

 

[Bearing Man]

We can see this being a big problem for people. Especially as more and more bikes come out of warranty. We are working extremely hard at Performance Line Bearings and can now, almost fully support the Bosch motors, we have just completed a full Yamaha overhaul video this weekend, have done a Panasonic motor overhaul pdf. and are currently working on the Brose motors. If like the Bosch and Brose motors, bearings and parts aren't available! We're having them made!
Hopefully, within the next two months we should be able to support and repair almost all current common ebike motors. If what you need is not on our site, it will be soon!
Our Yamaha video should go live later this week

Also a big thumbs up to Chris at Berkshire Cycles Great to see someone going above and beyond!

 

[Kernow]

I wonder how long it will be before poor Chris stops answering the phone on Sundays ?

 

[Thewootts]

Have you stripped many brose motors? I'd love to get my hands on a busted one. The pics I've seen it just looks like a planetary gear set split between the pedals and the motor. But there obviously is a one way clutch built into the bottom bracket. (Thats what has failed on mine)

It's good to know there is people getting involved with motor drive units... Well done!!

 

[Mike Smith]

How many miles have you guys done?

 

[Gary]

Brilliant story @Stumpy

 

[Stumpy]

How many miles have you guys done?

my motor went at about 750 miles

 

[Thewootts]

My motor went Let's than 10 charge cycles of my battery.

 

[Bearing Man]

Have you stripped many brose motors? I'd love to get my hands on a busted one. The pics I've seen it just looks like a planetary gear set split between the pedals and the motor. But there obviously is a one way clutch built into the bottom bracket. (Thats what has failed on mine)

It's good to know there is people getting involved with motor drive units... Well done!!

I have just finished the Yamaha and Panasonic motors and will be doing a full strip down and video on the Brose soon. Hopefully it will help explain what's going on in there

 

[Mike Smith]

my motor went at about 750 miles

Jeez..

 

[Mike Smith]

My motor went Let's than 10 charge cycles of my battery.

Even worse than Stumpys

 

[Studo]

How many miles have you guys done?

Mine started getting noiser at around 400 miles and progressively got lounder until it started to get embarrassing! Took it in at around 550 miles and fair play to spesh put a new motor in but that did take 2 weeks.

 

[Stumpy]

Mine started getting noiser at around 400 miles and progressively got lounder until it started to get embarrassing! Took it in at around 550 miles and fair play to spesh put a new motor in but that did take 2 weeks.

Just out of interest @Studo @Thewootts , do you know you max motor watt numbers on the motor that blew? My 'old' motor used to top out at c770 watts but the new one is nearer 600 which is noticeable on my daily ride (like-for-like) especially when it comes to climbing. There are a number of hills I could get up in 10th (using Turbo of course) which I now find myself having to change down for.

When I spoke to my new best friend, Chris @ Berkshire Cycles, he said all the 'new' 1.3 motors are 'down on power' compared to the old as so many originals are crapping out...?

So, based on that theory I guess I'm better with a lower power motor that will last longer (yet to be proved)..

I just wondered about your experience and if your motors that blew were 'more powerful' like my original? And, are your replacements 'less powerful'?

@Studo, thinking back, my motor did get progressively more noisy prior to blowing but not so much I thought at the time something was wrong....

 

[Studo]

Just out of interest @Studo @Thewootts , do you know you max motor watt numbers on the motor that blew? My 'old' motor used to top out at c770 watts but the new one is nearer 600 which is noticeable on my daily ride (like-for-like) especially when it comes to climbing. There are a number of hills I could get up in 10th (using Turbo of course) which I now find myself having to change down for.

When I spoke to my new best friend, Chris @ Berkshire Cycles, he said all the 'new' 1.3 motors are 'down on power' compared to the old as so many originals are crapping out...?

So, based on that theory I guess I'm better with a lower power motor that will last longer (yet to be proved)..

I just wondered about your experience and if your motors that blew were 'more powerful' like my original? And, are your replacements 'less powerful'?

@Studo, thinking back, my motor did get progressively more noisy prior to blowing but not so much I thought at the time something was wrong....

I dont know the specific numbers re max power on the previous motor but the new motor definately feels down on power but i assumed it was associated with the new firmware update which took away the aggresive acceleration. Max power on the new motor is 580w.

 

[Studo]

I dont know the specific numbers re max power on the previous motor but the new motor definately feels down on power but i assumed it was associated with the new firmware update which took away the aggresive acceleration. Max power on the new motor is 580w.

My old motor got definately noticeably lounder.

 

[Doomanic]

Max power on the new motor is 580w.

That’s a big loss of power over the old motor! I predict much wailing and gnashing of teeth if this becomes the norm.

 

[outerlimits]

I have just finished the Yamaha and Panasonic motors and will be doing a full strip down and video on the Brose soon. Hopefully it will help explain what's going on in there

Can you please post up the video or link on the Specialized section when you finish the vid.
Thanks

 

[Stumpy]

I dont know the specific numbers re max power on the previous motor but the new motor definately feels down on power but i assumed it was associated with the new firmware update which took away the aggresive acceleration. Max power on the new motor is 580w.

Thanks - interesting.... this goes some way to confirm the theory.

For info, mine is the same Firmware on motor and battery, so, in my case at least, these aren't a factor in the reduced power.

 

[Bearing Man]

Can you please post up the video or link on the Specialized section when you finish the vid.
Thanks

No problem

 

[Al Boneta]

I'm also being charged for the privilege of them fitting the motor as I did my purchase it from them. Although specialized will be paying them for the repair anyway.

Specialized doesn’t pay dealers for warranty work. We are not compensated for our time processing a warranty claim or for removal and installation warranty parts. In fact nobody really does this. SRAM will give us a chain or a cassette to compensate for our time but that’s it.
In fact when a warranty motor is sent out to us, we are on the hook for the cost of the replacement until they get the old one back.
The most common warranty issue I see with the Brose motor is the slipped or shredded belt.

This is almost always on derestricted bikes.

The good news is the belts and bearings will be serviceable at the dealer level in the coming weeks when these new kits become available from Specialized

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

Sounds like the belt should be a service item with the computer calculating a variable replacement interval, dependant on use.

 

[Stumpy]

Specialized doesn’t pay dealers for warranty work. We are not compensated for our time processing a warranty claim or for removal and installation warranty parts. In fact nobody really does this. SRAM will give us a chain or a cassette to compensate for our time but that’s it.
In fact when a warranty motor is sent out to us, we are on the hook for the cost of the replacement until they get the old one back.
The most common warranty issue I see with the Brose motor is the slipped or shredded belt.
View attachment 6313
This is almost always on derestricted bikes.

The good news is the belts and bearings will be serviceable at the dealer level in the coming weeks when these new kits become available from Specialized

I'm sure this is what happened to mine, as per my description in the OP

@Al Boneta Any ideas on the 'reduced power' motors being used as replacements?

 

[Thewootts]

Ah ok, that's a bit poo specialized don't cover warranty labour even if it was at reduced set rate.

but I guess most jobs on a bike labour wise are pretty minimal time wise.

Sounds like the belt should be a service item with the computer calculating a variable replacement interval, dependant on use.

Just like a cam belt!

sounds reasonable to do that in fact i seen a picture and brose are using Gates belts.. it is probably an off the shelf part

 

[Thewootts]

So are the louder motor drive units from yamaha and shimano, do they use straight cut gears? hence the extra noise? they do sound a bit like straight cut gearboxes

 

[Bearing Man]

Specialized doesn’t pay dealers for warranty work. We are not compensated for our time processing a warranty claim or for removal and installation warranty parts. In fact nobody really does this. SRAM will give us a chain or a cassette to compensate for our time but that’s it.
In fact when a warranty motor is sent out to us, we are on the hook for the cost of the replacement until they get the old one back.
The most common warranty issue I see with the Brose motor is the slipped or shredded belt.

This is almost always on derestricted bikes.

The good news is the belts and bearings will be serviceable at the dealer level in the coming weeks when these new kits become available from Specialized

This is a relatively large belt for the small amount of power going through it. The torque loads and RPM of an ebike are a fraction of what this belt should be able to cope with if correctly adjusted? The photo shows that the belt tensioner has snapped! This would immediately shred the belt because the teeth would lift out of the gear.

Also, maybe de-restricting the motors might just be a coincidence? The torque delivery of a derestricted motor remains the same, so the belts just going a few rpm faster?

 

[Bearing Man]

So are the louder motor drive units from yamaha and shimano, do they use straight cut gears? hence the extra noise? they do sound a bit like straight cut gearboxes

None of the main ebike motor manufacturers use straight cut gears on the main motor drive. Bosch use some in the final transfer gear cluster, but it doesn't cause major noise issues. If you look inside these motors, the Japanese motors are definitely not quite as refined as the German motors. But they also have fairly large and relatively thin engine casings, with shaft bearings mounted within them. This may exaggerate motor noise. It would be interesting to add some sound deadening to these covers and see what difference it makes.