Braking technique question

[carlbiker]

Have you asked ?

Maybe we could all work together on the spreadsheet of trip manipulation ?

If you get it right she'll be "Why don't you take two weeks, When do you go ?"

Sadly she’s IT literate, not a Gary ?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

" Basically I started doing about 80% front and 20% back, after gaining confidence I started to descend much better......"

I couldn't agree more! I find it surprising how afraid people are of using their front brake and how much skidding (trail erosion) goes on from over using the back brake. There is also a lot of bad advice found online from "your every day, well intentioned, average rider" .

There’s no doubt that the front brakes are the most effective, weight transfer physics dictates that. And although I would agree that around 80/20% front/rear braking bias would provide strongest stopping on a straight line in theory, making that a blanket statement without context can be misleading. There are certain situations where using the front brakes heavily will side swipe the front or induce an OTB stoppie guaranteed to give the rider a bad day. There is a reason why the front and rear brakes are mechanically independent - so that we have the ability to modulate the front/rear brake bias to match the situation.

The textbooks teaches us to do all the braking in a straight line prior to a corner, but even a small miscalculation changes everything. And sometimes there are NO straight sections to slow down when speeding over a series of back to back DH corners. Personally I subscribe to being adaptive especially when it comes to braking technique... to constantly read the terrain. Plus there’s usually not enough time to think once braking enters the response territory, so muscle memory instinct plays a more dominant role instead of relying on pre-calculated math.

One thing that has helped me a lot earlier on was to practice braking on a “skid pad.” Choose a level hard pack clearing with lots of loose pebbles (so you don’t bald/flat-spot your expensive tyres). Start slow - to moderate - to fast speed, practice braking on a straight line repeatedly. Make sure to use various front/rear brake bias, just so you can get an idea of what right and what wrong feels like. Then push it past losing traction so that you’re locked-out and skidding... front only, rear only, and both. You want to avoid locking-out in the trails, but you need to know what it feels like and when it occurs. You’ll also get a hang of how far you need to move back while braking hard. Do this sitting down, and then do it standing up. After straight braking, do braking on the flat but while turning. Practice controlling a locked-out rear wheel that’s drifting sideways while standing without putting your foot down. Good luck controlling a locked-out front... I can’t, but I know of riders that can. Then find a downslope to practice max braking without skidding... find the knack of where the traction limit occurs. There’s lots of other braking exercises you can do to develop not only good braking habits but also muscle memory instincts so you don’t ever find yourself panic-braking in an unpredictable manner over an unforeseen situation. ??

And yes, if self-learning isn’t your thing getting a good coach is a great idea... or at least do it with some riding mates so they can observe and comment. It can be good fun and relatively safe.

 

[RickBullotta]

There’s no doubt that the front brakes are the most effective, weight transfer physics dictates that. And although I would agree that around 80/20% front/rear braking bias would provide strongest stopping on a straight line in theory, making that a blanket statement without context can be misleading. There are certain situations where using the front brakes heavily will side swipe the front or induce an OTB stoppie guaranteed to give the rider a bad day. There is a reason why the front and rear brakes are mechanically independent - so that we have the ability to modulate the front/rear brake bias to match the situation.

The textbooks teaches us to do all the braking in a straight line prior to a corner, but even a small miscalculation changes everything. And sometimes there are NO straight sections to slow down when speeding over a series of back to back DH corners. Personally I subscribe to being adaptive especially when it comes to braking technique... to constantly read the terrain. Plus there’s usually not enough time to think once braking enters the response territory, so muscle memory instinct plays a more dominant role instead of relying on pre-calculated math.

One thing that has helped me a lot earlier on was to practice braking on a “skid pad.” Choose a level hard pack clearing with lots of loose pebbles (so you don’t bald/flat-spot your expensive tyres). Start slow - to moderate - to fast speed, practice braking on a straight line repeatedly. Make sure to use various front/rear brake bias, just so you can get an idea of what right and what wrong feels like. Then push it past losing traction so that you’re locked-out and skidding... front only, rear only, and both. You want to avoid locking-out in the trails, but you need to know what it feels like and when it occurs. You’ll also get a hang of how far you need to move back while braking hard. Do this sitting down, and then do it standing up. After straight braking, do braking on the flat but while turning. Practice controlling a locked-out rear wheel that’s drifting sideways while standing without putting your foot down. Good luck controlling a locked-out front... I can’t, but I know of riders that can. Then find a downslope to practice max braking without skidding... find the knack of where the traction limit occurs. There’s lots of other braking exercises you can do to develop not only good braking habits but also muscle memory instincts so you don’t ever find yourself panic-braking in an unpredictable manner over an unforeseen situation. ??

And yes, if self-learning isn’t your thing getting a good coach is a great idea... or at least do it with some riding mates so they can observe and comment. It can be good fun and relatively safe.

...and you can turn a "bug" into a "feature" by learning to use the rear brake to slide the rear out in certain types of turns to get through it faster (moto trick also). And learning to use the front wheel "stoppie style" can also be a great way to deal with super tight downhill switchback sections.

 

[steve_sordy]

@JoeBlow Ref my post#10. In response to your concern at "about an inch of play" I said that I thought my levers were about 15mm. I have finally remembered to measure them. With both brakes having had new pads in the last week or so, and being 100% happy with my brakes and braking, I discovered that the free stroke measured at the tip of the lever is ....25mm! It then takes a further 10mm to get a hard lever. That may go up by a few mm in a really hard full-on emergency adrenalin -powered stop! Both brakes are the same.

Either we both have something to worry about, or neither of us do. (I'm opting for the latter).

 

[JoeBlow]

@JoeBlow Ref my post#10. In response to your concern at "about an inch of play" I said that I thought my levers were about 15mm. I have finally remembered to measure them. With both brakes having had new pads in the last week or so, and being 100% happy with my brakes and braking, I discovered that the free stroke measured at the tip of the lever is ....25mm! It then takes a further 10mm to get a hard lever. That may go up by a few mm in a really hard full-on emergency adrenalin -powered stop! Both brakes are the same.

Either we both have something to worry about, or neither of us do. (I'm opting for the latter).

I think many of those who have doubted this will also be surprised if they actually measure the travel on their brakes.

 

[Gary]

A whole new level of overthinking going on here.

Just ride your bikes guys

 

[JoeBlow]

Quite right. It's easy to get carried away but no harm done.