Braking technique question

[Gary]

Think I've worn a helmet a grand total of 6 times this year so far.

 

[Blokie]

Think I've worn a helmet a grand total of 6 times this year so far.

I'm surprised you've only been out for 6 rides so far this year.

 

[Gary]

I've been out for well over 200 rides this year bro

 

[B1rdie]

After a ride around with my wife this week she told me she had thoughts of how it woulb be if she had to go to a hospital… and that was because sha was afraid of loosing control on a 20% downslope on a wide gravel road. I said to her she would never be able to develop skills and “ muscle memory” with that kind of thoughts on the mind.
So, my advise is to ride easyer trails until you get bored with it to the point you feel you need more challenge.
In other words, wearing protective stuff will not ease your fears so that the mind becomes open to learning new skills. Sometimes the discomfort of wearing armours might even disturb.
Learning crashing skills is different from learning breaking skills.
The good braking thecnic is to scan the track ahead of you and detect “braking spots” ahead of you and never apply the breaks when you feel afraid of how fast you are riding, but letting it go through until it reaches the next breaking spot.

 

[Blokie]

I've been out for well over 200 rides this year bro

I was being sarcastic at an experienced rider seemingly boasting about not bothering to wear a helmet for the vast majority of the time.....

 

[Gary]

Yes. I spotted your subtle sarcasm.
it's not a boast. I just don't like helmets and don't wear polystyrene hat for any other activity I happen to do.

 

[Sidepod]

After a ride around with my wife this week she told me she had thoughts of how it woulb be if she had to go to a hospital… and that was because sha was afraid of loosing control on a 20% downslope on a wide gravel road. I said to her she would never be able to develop skills and “ muscle memory” with that kind of thoughts on the mind.
So, my advise is to ride easyer trails until you get bored with it to the point you feel you need more challenge.
In other words, wearing protective stuff will not ease your fears so that the mind becomes open to learning new skills. Sometimes the discomfort of wearing armours might even disturb.
Learning crashing skills is different from learning breaking skills.
The good braking thecnic is to scan the track ahead of you and detect “braking spots” ahead of you and never apply the breaks when you feel afraid of how fast you are riding, but letting it go through until it reaches the next breaking spot.

I guess “Friday Fails” on YouTube is a NO NO then?

 

[steve_sordy]

Think I've worn a helmet a grand total of 6 times this year so far.

I hope that you continue to remain lucky.

 

[Gary]

it's not luck Steve

 

[lightning]

I cover the brakes while descending and tend to hold the brakes, particularly the rear brake at the bite point to govern my speed a little.
Sadly at 58 l not the headbanger l used to be, l don't know where l lost a little confidence but its probably because l now almost always ride alone, the friends l used to ride with have gone on to road bikes.
Although my wife can track me using Strava.

Having only recently graduated to an ebike l
am still getting used to the different way that it rides, on descents it's definitely a difference, it takes more effort to choose a line than on my Foxy R, where l could just fly over everything.
With the ebike it seems that it can go more seriously wrong, more easily.

 

[lightning]

Yes. I spotted your subtle sarcasm.
it's not a boast. I just don't like helmets and don't wear polystyrene hat for any other activity I happen to do.

l am going to be boring and say, my helmet has saved me twice. Once when l fell into a gully and the second time when l head butted a dry stone wall.
Both times the helmet was trashed and l
walked away with only minor injuries.

l know it's great riding without it on, particularly in Summer, as l have tried it, but for me it's not worth the risk.

l am not a maniac on descents, the dry stone wall one l was descending a rocky path that l've done (literally) 100 times before, not going fast, hit a rock which bounced the front to the left and l went right.
Happened so quickly l sat up and thought "what just happened"

 

[Gary]

Brake dragging might seem safer but it actually reduces grip from your rear tyre and the rear suspension's compliance. Manage your speed using both brakes and instead of dragging them down the whole hillside try just braking to correct your speed before the next corner or obsticle. Dragging just one brake also unsettles the weight bias of your bike.

 

[Gary]

l am going to be boring and say, my helmet has saved me twice.

Without getting into a long winded helmet debate. it's a piece of polystyrene covered with a thin layer of plastic and a fitting cradle/padding. so of course it broke if you hit it off a wall. It's unlikely to "save" your life in a direct impact with a solid object at high speed but yes. it can reduce the severity of injury or save you from minor injury and reduce the chance of concussion etc. I have absolutely no problem with other people wearing helmets or not. it's entirely their choice and I hope it always stays that way.

Now my turn for the boring part.
I have had many head injuries throughout my lifetime including 20+ concusions. More than half of them were not connected to biking at all and only one came from a bike accident where I wasn't wearing a helmet.
I do wear a helmet when I deem it appropriate. and the reason I have only worn one 6 times this year is due to covid travel restrictions.
I don't ever wear one commuting. I commute around 4-5000miles a year (mainly on road but sometimes off road if conditions are dry enough that I'm not going to arrive caked in mud)
I don't ever wear one riding locally (tons and tons of good single track but nothing local is particularly extreme)
I don't ever wear one when riding with my kids or girlfriend. (As I ride at their pace/level) - They do wear helmets
I rarely ever wear one dirt jumping. (not wearing one actually promotes better risk assesment. ie. if you're not 100% sure you're able to make it through a set of jumps why the hell are you attempting them and expecting a helmet to save you?
I always wear a full face DHing and I wear a normal helmet on the descents when riding enduro/DH tracks. Especially when group riding.
I pretty much never wear gloves or armour either.

Some folk do feel the need to comment on my choice, sometimes from a keyboard, sometimes to my face but often behind my back. Especailly at trail centres if I'm riding with my daughter or girlfriend (they often tell me the more ridiculous comments they've overheard).
It's actually none of their or anyone elses business.
I see far more riders riding above their skill level WITH helmets on than without.

 

[lightning]

You make some very valid points and l can't argue with your logic.

Take care out there. Nobody wants to get injured.

 

[routrax]

So, my advise is to ride easyer trails until you get bored with it to the point you feel you need more challenge.

100% agree.
Ride something you find slightly challenging until it's no big deal. Repeat.

 

[Gyre]

I've been riding for a year or so now mainly at FOD in the UK. I can get down the blue runs at a fair lick but find reds a bit of a challenge and to be honest I don't feel that I am doing them justice i.e. I'm nervous and slow. I do want to ride faster but decided against coaching because at 73 years of age I feel that the return on investment will be very small and I'm not THAT ambitious.

I'm surprised I didn't see anybody else commenting on this. I don't know if you have any prior experience with professional coaching, but it is emphatically *not* just for racers or freestylers. Age is only relevant when you're forever done with pushing at the edge of your comfort zone.

Since it sounds like your brakes are fine, I'd suggest reconsidering your position about coaching. The most important part of the bike is the nut that connects the bars to the pedals.

 

[carlbiker]

Hi Joe, I’m almost as new as you but the bike isn’t the issue it’s your lack of experience by sounds of things, I speak from ’in’experience ?!

Weirdly you need to go faster, before things start to go slower, it’s your perception of speed. Something not mentioned yet is actually ‘look ahead’, sounds weird I know but try look 10 meters ahead at all times, really not easy to do at first but after a while things start to slow down. When you get down stuff faster you start to trust the bike and yourself, but actually its Like your body has a brain and develops riding experience almost separate to your brain, watching YouTube fir example can’t program the body......just ride ride ride

Book some coaching, the body posture is everything honestly! As soon as my coach told me what to do I progressed massively but also I’ve not had an.......(I’m not going to say and tempt fate)..since..?

Helmets, the bell super 3r scrap that, maybe Bell super DH, smith mainline, POC, plenty but go for DH rated, non DH can have serious failures on a big impact, Smith has Koroyd layer to protect against concussions, I’d like never to find out.

Protection doesn’t add security, if it does it’s false.....when Im not wearing any I feel more comfortable for sure, with it on it’s a burden after a while but I appreciate its benefits and soon forget it’s there, I wear fully body Knox Urbane pro.

Dont be hard on yourself, enjoy the learning as one day you can look back and be proud of the progress.

Nothing anyone says at the moment can help too much, info is great when your tweaking things but there needs to be a base to build on which your starting too, just be patient and don’t rush it, I tried this, hit a tree and was out for 3 months....I’ve only had a bike for about 6 months ?

last weekend I went to ladybower and felt like I smashed it, was in a group of 3 but went down everything difficult at full speed, felt great, no offs, maybe sheer luck but I’ve been buzzing ever since!

 

[steve_sordy]

...................
I have had many head injuries throughout my lifetime including 20+ concusions. More than half of them were not connected to biking at all and only one came from a bike accident where I wasn't wearing a helmet.
............................

Just checking...
Are you aware of "..the increasing concerns about the long-term effects of repeated mild injuries, for example in the sporting setting."? That quote was from the Alzheimer's Society who are sponsoring research into the long term effects of repeated mild head trauma. Quite recently, it has become an important topic in the world of Rugby.

I don't wear a helmet in the expectation that it will save my life. If I had a sufficiently nasty fall that my life was in danger, like being in a car accident, then I doubt a helmet would make much difference. What I am confident my helmet will do is to reduce the head trauma in a fall from my bike such that I don't get concussion, or anywhere close. I do not want to be even a little bit brain damaged! I watched up close and personal for 4 years while Mum died from Alzheimer's disease. While her's was not from inflicted head trauma, it was still not pretty.

I have broken every helmet I have ever owned except the two I own now, one open face, one full face. I am not surprised, after all it is their destiny, but consider the head trauma that I have been saved from as a consequence.

I hope that this doesn't come across a preachy, I'm just concerned that's all.

 

[Gary]

Yes. Steve. I am very aware and have been for around a decade now of the effects of repeated head injury trauma. Mtb racing is finally taking it seriously too.

RIP Dave Mirra.

My worst and most common head injuries were not from cycling or Infact any situation that you'd consider wearing a helmet for.

I do have issues with memory, mood and cognitive behavior.. Whether these stem from multiple head injuries, a fucked up early life or later "lifestyle" choices I'm not sure.

I didn't read your concern as preachy at all. It is a worrying thought.

Thanks.

 

[B1rdie]

I guess “Friday Fails” on YouTube is a NO NO then?

ALWAYS WEAR ARMOUR IN THE PRESENCE OF A CAMERA!!!!
?

 

[JoeBlow]

I fractured my skull in a climbing accident 50 years ago and I was wearing a helmet. I did not have my own and "havered and quavered" about wearing a borrowed one as it was a very hot day.I put it on and took it off several times before setting off up the route. I'm pretty certain that if I had not worn it I would not be sat here today typing this. I mostly wear my helmet although at times on the push up fire road I may take it off if I feel uncomfortable.

It's is up to the individual but I do feel uneasy if I see anyone riding fast on rough terrain without one. Seeing someone laid in a pool of blood, pouring from a head wound, ruins everyone's day.

Personally speaking I think wearing a helmet IS the responsible thing to do but I would not want to force anyone to do so.

Al

 

[7869hodgy]

I do have issues with memory, mood and cognitive behavior.

Now there’s a perfect advert for wearing a helmet. Long term effects of head/brain trauma. (As was Joe’s experience 50 years ago)

Whilst I appreciate what you said about non-cycling events (sorry to hear by the way) minimising the chances is a sensible choice in an activity where increased velocity increases risk in an impact with an inanimate object.

I hit a tree last year with my heat (Bell Super 3) and chest. I dread to think what it would have done to my head as I broke a couple of ribs.

Back to Joe’s point. You referenced skiing earlier. At 49 after 34 years of skiing I decided to have a lesson as I was not enjoying skiing as much due to age/flexibility/fear. I had 2 lessons which transformed my technique and gave me a huge boost in confidence in my ability which improved my skiing considerably. I was only given three main simple tips to follow which had a huge effect.

Get some tuition. Worst case it’ll cost you a bit of money. But I bet you’ll get something out of it.

 

[Gary]

minimising the chances is a sensible choice in an activity where increased velocity increases risk in an impact with an inanimate object.

Minimising the chances of accident by riding well within my limits is exactly what I do when not wearing a helmet. Whereas you clearly choose to ride above your limits when wearing one.

It's definitely a choice but your definition of "sensible" seems rather flawed to me.

 

[urastus]

Re brake bleeding etc etc - I never had much luck with that and it was always troublesome. In hindsight I just think "why did anyone start that sort of nonsense"? All the brake lever play seems to happen as the pads where; this must seem obvious. The very simple trick of using a rubber band or zip tie to hold the lever tight over night brings all those air bubble up near the lever and reservoir. Burp them out in the morning, swapping the bubbles for some more oil. Voila! But, what works better than the two step process in as in the video, is screw the funnel in with the brake oil before you do the burping - as the bubbles come out the oil goes in. Disc brakes bleeding - EMTB Forums

 

[urastus]

Yes. Steve. I am very aware and have been for around a decade now of the effects of repeated head injury trauma. Mtb racing is finally taking it seriously too.

RIP Dave Mirra.

My worst and most common head injuries were not from cycling or Infact any situation that you'd consider wearing a helmet for.

I do have issues with memory, mood and cognitive behavior.. Whether these stem from multiple head injuries, a fucked up early life or later "lifestyle" choices I'm not sure.

I didn't read your concern as preachy at all. It is a worrying thought.

Thanks.

It seems that many folk follow what they are told by authorities and accept it as gospel and the one and only reality. This often doesn't take into account any of the experience of those who think differently. "if you're not qualified" blah blah blah. It seems to have stopped them from thinking for themselves. They seem uncomfortable when others don't necessarily follow their reality. I kind of see it as arrogant.

One awesome example I've experienced is riding a motorcycle in Flores. Everyone there has grown up on scooters and motorcycles. Kids ride to school 3 or 4 on a bike, no helmets, mirrors pointing somewhere, indicators never used, wearing flip flops, traffic that seems chaotic and random, but somehow everything flows. In two months I never saw one accident. If I was in Australia with any where near that number of motorcycles on the road, I would have seen hundreds of accidents, easily.

 

[urastus]

Re actual braking technique; this video is awesome. I've always put this to dramatic effect on some of the hills in Hobart; it's very effective

 

[Hamina]

Re actual braking technique; this video is awesome. I've always put this to dramatic effect on some of the hills in Hobart; it's very effective

The message in the video was clear but the such fancy effects as removing colors in 2021 in a informative video gets 1/5 points.

 

[Sidepod]

The message in the video was clear but the such fancy effects as removing colors in 2021 in a informative video gets 1/5 points.

Post a link to your channel, I take it its SO much better?

 

[Hamina]

Post a link to your channel, I take it its SO much better?

Apologize for my comment. I just didn't like the effects that added zero value to the otherwise valuable information provided. When you post something to the internet you kind of agree that people might comment it even without capability to provide content on a same level.

 

[Sidepod]

Those guys are really good. They’re funny, have a real understanding of their target market and above all have some great content. Criticism is cheap and adds no value.