Brake upgrade

[Dax]

I have the new xt four pot and I have saints and the only difference I would say is modulation

Which is better?

 

[ccrdave]

Its subjective but personally i prefer the four pot xt. The saints are easily as powerful i just dont like their on/off feel. The xt lever has a servo wave master cylinder which aids modulation. As fas i can see the calipers are the same on both brakes

 

[Donnie797]

I have the new xt four pot and I have saints and the only difference I would say is modulation

... and the weight and the material (= stability? sturdiness?)
... and i read somewhere that saint & zee move more brake-fluid with the same lever movement, this is why the modulation is different to XT (more direct) but this is also why they can deliver more max brake-power. Anyway, i've not seen a proper comparison-testing yet.
... and i have to correct myself from above - there are differences between Saint & Zee, which is the material and the forging method (cold forged vs cast) which provides more sturdiness but with a much higher price and in the end it's just the last 5% of performance-boost 95% of all the riders will not notice anyway (me included).

 

[ccrdave]

I think the saint levers are more sturdy
I think the calipers are the same
I think you are right about the move more brake fliud its the main reason why you get the on/off feel of the saints
I had zee brakes and did not like them at all, to me very different feel to the saints but that was a while ago so maybe things have changed now

 

[Dax]

I've got the m820 saints and had the m800s before, never really minded the feel but maybe they could do with more modulation. I'm a big fan of the current and previous gen XTs thou, the m8000 has a really nice lever feel and I've never run out of brake with either.

The saints are prettier than the XTs

 

[ccrdave]

Review: Shimano XT BR-M8020 4-piston disc brakes

 

[R120]

I am interested to try the new four pot XTR's - apparently power of saints with decent modulation.

2-piston or 4-piston? Testing & comparing Shimano's brand new XTR disc brakes - Singletrack Magazine

 

[R120]

Also don't saints and zee's just run re graphiced XT/SLX levers?

 

[Donnie797]

Also don't saints and zee's just run re graphiced XT/SLX levers?

they look different (guess they are ^^)

 

[R120]

I think they are a bit more different than the older models

 

[Dax]

They're definitely different levers. The zee levers are more like the old xt. Current Saint and XT are both nice, but the saints are definitely prettier.

 

[Stray cat]

I have changed from XT's 2 Pistons to new 4 Pistons,and night and day. The 2 Pistons can't stop properly a 25 Kg bike,in my opinion.

 

[jemen]

I can heavily recommend the TRP Quadiem 4 G Spec für the LEVO. There is nothing better.

j.

 

[Kernow]

Looking forward to trying the 4 piston Xt brakes at some point , Iam pleased with my current code r great feel etc , but I do prefer mineral oil to brake fluid , not only less hassle but it seems to keep the pistons lubrucated better to me with less striction.
The best upgrade I’ve found for the Xt m8000 is fibrax rotors and pads , they are not expensive or bling but improve the power and feel amazingly and seem to cool better than the ice tech .

Just had a funny clicky feel on some Xt;s and couldn’t get the brake to adjust and found the piston had broken up on the back . Can’t find new pistons iether , luckily we had a spare caliper
that’s paint my hands , I was painting when I got called to the bike shed ?

 

[R120]

I can heavily recommend the TRP Quadiem 4 G Spec für the LEVO. There is nothing better.

j.

They are bringing out an e bike specific version of the G Specs next year, think it has thicker rotors

 

[R120]

“They get a 2.3mm thick rotor, which is 30% thicker than their standard rotors, which they say helps keep heat about 9% lower. That’s too thick for regular calipers, so you can’t swap them in for your regular mountain bike brakes. To make it work, the e-calipers start with the pads’ retraction point set a little wider. They used FEA to optimize the design for heat management without giving up power. Uses the same lever as the G-Spec Trail but with different branding”

 

[Al Boneta]

“They get a 2.3mm thick rotor, which is 30% thicker than their standard rotors, which they say helps keep heat about 9% lower. That’s too thick for regular calipers, so you can’t swap them in for your regular mountain bike brakes. To make it work, the e-calipers start with the pads’ retraction point set a little wider. They used FEA to optimize the design for heat management without giving up power. Uses the same lever as the G-Spec Trail but with different branding”

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I really wanted to like the TRP brakes but they were pretty inconsistent in my experience with them. The pistons on the front brake wouldn’t stay balanced and would never hold a bleed.
I am running the new Hayes Dominion A4 brakes and they have the power of Saints and the modulation of Codes. The lever feel is like a Hope lever.
It’s like they made a greatest hits brake.

They use thicker rotors that cool better and are more resistant to bending.

A year ago I wouldn’t of gone near a Hayes brake.

 

[R120]

Yeah i saw your write up on them - i remember lusting over some hayes back in the day, really interested to see how you go with them over the long term

 

[jemen]

“They get a 2.3mm thick rotor, which is 30% thicker than their standard rotors, which they say helps keep heat about 9% lower. That’s too thick for regular calipers, so you can’t swap them in for your regular mountain bike brakes. To make it work, the e-calipers start with the pads’ retraction point set a little wider. They used FEA to optimize the design for heat management without giving up power. Uses the same lever as the G-Spec Trail but with different branding”

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UUhhhh, the Lever looks like it´ll hurt after a short descend....

 

[Justchillin]

I'm thinking to go Shimano Zee.

I have Zee’s on my on spectral and i’m very impressed ?

 

[rmh1009]

I have Zee’s on my on spectral and i’m very impressed ?

Just wondering mate if you've ever tried a Levo? I've got a Spectral 7.0 due to be shipped 24th Sep but wondering whether to cancel and get a new Levo. Spec on the Canyon so good. Are you trading a better spec for a not as good as motor etc? I've only tried a Shimano motor and it seemed fantastic to me but nothing to compare it against.

 

[Justchillin]

Just wondering mate if you've ever tried a Levo? I've got a Spectral 7.0 due to be shipped 24th Sep but wondering whether to cancel and get a new Levo. Spec on the Canyon so good. Are you trading a better spec for a not as good as motor etc? I've only tried a Shimano motor and it seemed fantastic to me but nothing to compare it against.

No i’ve only ridden a focus and my on spectral 7.0.
I’m so happy with it, brakes fantastic, i was worried about the shock not having lockout but it doesnt need it one bit, its supported perfect.
Also i have a yt jeffsy with the latest factory fox 36s on it and i can honestley say i prefer the lyrics.

 

[rmh1009]

No i’ve only ridden a focus and my on spectral 7.0.
I’m so happy with it, brakes fantastic, i was worried about the shock not having lockout but it doesnt need it one bit, its supported perfect.
Also i have a yt jeffsy with the latest factory fox 36s on it and i can honestley say i prefer the lyrics.

Thanks mate. It doesn't really need any upgrades does it. For the same money Levo you'd want to change quite a bit. Quite like the wheel set on the spectral as well. Will buy the torque caps though.

 

[Justchillin]

Thanks mate. It doesn't really need any upgrades does it. For the same money Levo you'd want to change quite a bit. Quite like the wheel set on the spectral as well. Will buy the torque caps though.

Yeah even the tyres are spot on,i’ve changed the grips thats it.i’m quite fussy on set up and like the recomend 20%front sag and 28% rear sag and your away i use 90% of travel with big hits. I’d say it rides better than my jeffsy pro race and that is a weapon

 

[rmh1009]

Yeah even the tyres are spot on,i’ve changed the grips thats it.i’m quite fussy on set up and like the recomend 20%front sag and 28% rear sag and your away i use 90% of travel with big hits. I’d say it rides better than my jeffsy pro race and that is a weapon

Good to know. Waiting is killing me. I’ve got my old Raceface atlas stem and bars to go on and a wolftooth lever for the dropper. Won’t change anything else. Think the Levo will be more like Revelation fork etc.

 

[Justchillin]

Good to know. Waiting is killing me. I’ve got my old Raceface atlas stem and bars to go on and a wolftooth lever for the dropper. Won’t change anything else. Think the Levo will be more like Revelation fork etc.

Sorry i swapped the 60mm stem for a 40mm renthal, i tried a 50mm but the 40mm was perfect and its still climbs as good.

 

[Gary]

They get a 2.3mm thick rotor, which is 30% thicker than their standard rotors, which they say helps keep heat about 9% lower.

Any idea what the deal is with the split braking surface design?
I'm all for thicker more robust rotors but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me
I assume there are splits on the other side too and it's made from two rotors bonded together. This really doesn't seem a great idea to me. each side must only be 1.15mm so with wear your rotors's only going to be 1mm thick at those splits.
Scary

most brake manufacturers minimum rotor thickness (to be replaced at) is around 1.5mm

 

[R120]

Nope, i was only quoting the article form Bike rumour

 

[Basy]

Shigura!!! They've been the most powerful brake I've used (Hope, Shimano, Sram, Tektro, Magura). Currently have V4's on the shuttle rig (just for bling factor) and Saints on the commuter. Shigura are on the ebike and are more powerful than both by a noticeable amount. Modulation is not as good as Hope though but better than Saint (closer to Shimano obviously but somewhere in between). Bleeding is pretty much the same as Shimano except you need a bleed nipple on the caliper end (pretty easy). If I were to chose a brake it would be this or Trickstuff DIRETTISSIMA (but they're too expensive and hard to come by).

 

[Nasty Nick]

Heyyooo reviving this thread for some more feedback. I got a decoy with code r’s, they’re terrible!!! Shock at how little power they have. Anyway, I have some almost new m7000s that I feel like won’t be too much better in the max power department. Thinking about swapping some 4 pot calipers on them so they don’t go to waste. The various Shimano 4 pots and the Magura 4 pots all seem like a decent upgrade. But the new Hayes look nice and are cheap. So does anyone have any current favorites or recommendations for me?