Rail (750Wh) Bosch Smart V5 update Mileage/Speed error

[Jeremybub]

Just got back from the Trek shop and they reinstall the firmware update. Unfortunately this did not fix the problem. I took my Trek Rail 2022 9.8 for a ride that was .74 miles according to my Garmin and my bike registered a 1.4 mile , and the speed is also doubled. Folsom Trek is at a lose so I left it with them, they are going to troubleshoot further and wait for there Sr EBike mechanic to look at it.

I also have a claim open with Bosch and have been Sharing this info with Chris (Bosch Ebike support)

 

[Jeremybub]

View attachment 106170

Just looked on Facebook, there's another Trek rider there reporting same issue FFS, wished I'd just left it as it was, have put 200 miles in bike in 3 rides

Please share the link to the FB post

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just so you know, Bosch UK are aware of this and are investigating...

 

[Paul Mac]

Please share the link to the FB post

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Paul Mac]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Unfortunately it won't let me copy the exact link, probably private.

 

[Jeremybub]

Just so you know, Bosch UK are aware of this and are investigating...

Thanks Rob.
I have a case open with Bosch U.S.A.

 

[Jeremybub]

Unfortunately it won't let me copy the exact link, probably private

Thanks Paul, I requested to join the FB group.
Also it surprises me that more Trek Rail Smart system owners/riders aren’t posting with the same issues.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It might be different with the smart updates, but I think previously if you did the update at a dealer, they could pick which version of the firmware and which modes to apply.

Just wonder if a Trek owner can ask for the default Bosch firmware rather than the trek derivative or if the system only allows the trek one as that serial number is tagged as a Trek.

 

[Jeremybub]

It might be different with the smart updates, but I think previously if you did the update at a dealer, they could pick which version of the firmware and which modes to apply.

Just wonder if a Trek owner can ask for the default Bosch firmware rather than the trek derivative or if the system only allows the trek one as that serial number is tagged as a Trek.

I asked this question yesterday when I took my bike to Folsom Trek, they said they can not roll back to a previous firmware version.
In turn they removed the current firmware update and reinstalled, this did not correct the issue.

 

[JP-NZ]

Thanks Paul, I requested to join the FB group.
Also it surprises me that more Trek Rail Smart system owners/riders aren’t posting with the same issues.

You have to remember not everyone installs updates as soon as they are available.

 

[ricko]

Checked again today, the mileage is definitely recording exactly double, the speed appears to be correct, so don't know what's going on.
Called Bosch they will get back

I noticed halfway round my ride that the mileage on the Kiox was showing 20 miles, when I knew and my Garmin confirmed I had only done 10.
I thought maybe it hadn't zeroed from my last ride, but as I continued, I could see that it was basically recording double my actual mileage. I finished a Garmin confirmed 28 miles, but the Kiox was showing 56 miles.
Even more annoying is that that extra erroneous mileage has been recorded on my actual total mileage on the odometer.
Also I noticed that the speed was reading high, Garmin showing I was doing 5 mph but Kiox showing 9 mph.
My mate also updated his Rail and his was doing the same.

The exact same issue after getting my 2022 9.8XT back from LBS. There was apparently a Trek specific update that corrected power dropout issues that Trek and Bosch had worked on for a while, so specific not just to Trek but the Rail with Bosch Smart Sy

I noticed halfway round my ride that the mileage on the Kiox was showing 20 miles, when I knew and my Garmin confirmed I had only done 10.
I thought maybe it hadn't zeroed from my last ride, but as I continued, I could see that it was basically recording double my actual mileage. I finished a Garmin confirmed 28 miles, but the Kiox was showing 56 miles.
Even more annoying is that that extra erroneous mileage has been recorded on my actual total mileage on the odometer.
Also I noticed that the speed was reading high, Garmin showing I was doing 5 mph but Kiox showing 9 mph.
My mate also updated his Rail and his was doing the same.

I had the same issue after getting the bike back from my local, speed cut out at 25km/h (Australia) as per display but distance travelled was greatly exaggerated. I was told there was a specific Trek issue that was only impacting higher end bikes equipped with the Bosch Smart System motors, and this was addressed in a firmware update that looks like it borked the distance calculation.

I noticed my wheel circumference was out and re adjusted but havent ridden since

 

[ricko]

Are we concluding this is only happening on Rails ?

You could imagine someone screwed something up with KM/Miles - but that would be 5/8 and @Paul Mac's figures show exactly double.

Weirdly @Jeremybub (king of the bump) said with two revolutions of the cranks he got 778 meters ?!?!!!!??? Unless proven otherwise I think we have to ignore that as it seems spurious.

Trek used to have their own FW/modes - is this still the same or now that we have EMTB lite and so on do they just use the Bosch FW ???

If someone at Trek mods the Bosch updates and this is only on the Trek's then it would indicate that either Trek use a different sensor to everyone else and the additional hall effect they use on the Smarts is being miss interpreted or someone just made a boo boo ...

From what my LBS is telling me, Bosch and Trek work together on Firmware because there are certain things within it that are specific to Rails or Smart System equipped Treks. From what I can gather, this most recent firmware was worked on for some time between the two to solve intermittent power loss issues. It seems however to have stuffed distance

 

[Jeremybub]

I spoke to my local Trek today they’re starting to think it’s the “Trek speed sensor” he explained that’s trek has a custom software modification due to where Trek placed the sensor in the rear triangle, trek and Bosch were supposed to have worked this out prior to the release, he went on to explain that they believe this would possibly create the false mileage and speed.
My local Trek shop is reaching out to Bosch EMTB support tomorrow to discuss this issue with them.

 

[Jeremybub]

Thanks Rob.
I have a case open with Bosch U.S.A.

Just so you know, Bosch UK are aware of this and are investigating...

Rob, any news from Trek or Bosch On your end?
My local Trek dealer is working with Bosch and they think it’s a speed sensor issue, according to the shop manage bosch is shipping a new speed sensor for Trek to instal. However, This seems odd to me since the firmware update was on the drive unit, kiox and controller not the sensor. However I hope they are correct and I can get my bike back by early next week.

 

[JP-NZ]

Rob, any news from Trek or Bosch On your end?
My local Trek dealer is working with Bosch and they think it’s a speed sensor issue, according to the shop manage bosch is shipping a new speed sensor for Trek to instal. However, This seems odd to me since the firmware update was on the drive unit, kiox and controller not the sensor. However I hope they are correct and I can get my bike back by early next week.

I wouldn't be very hopeful seeing as the update wrecked the system and you didn't have a sensor issue prior and you also haven't had any sensor error codes. This is 100% a software issue IMHO.

I'm waiting for Bosch to push through an updated firmware with a fix but until then I'm happy to stay on the 2022 version with no issues.

 

[Jeremybub]

I wouldn't be very hopeful seeing as the update wrecked the system and you didn't have a sensor issue prior and you also haven't had any sensor error codes. This is 100% a software issue IMHO.

I'm waiting for Bosch to push through an updated firmware with a fix but until then I'm happy to stay on the 2022 version with no issues.

Yeah right now I am giving them the benefit of the Doubt, I plan on calling Bosch in the morning to discuss further

 

[Tomroy]

Wish I read this earlier! Same problem here.

 

[Jeremybub]

Wish I read this earlier! Same problem here.

What bike are you riding?
Year
Make
Model

 

[paquo]

i contacted bosch, and this is what they said:
We noticed that your Phone operating system is not up to date, if possible please update your phone OS.

Once updated, please double check the settings for the Flow App, and make sure that Location is set to "Always allow".

We will review this matter with our team and determine if any further steps are needed.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us via phone (833) BOSCH-EB (267-2432) or email at [email protected]. Please reference your case number ....

Best Regards,

lol something says thats not gonna do shit
i never ride with the stupid flow app running
they're like we'll let you know if that fixes it

 

[Tomroy]

What bike are you riding?
Year
Make
Model

2022 Trek Rail 9.8

 

[Jeremybub]

i contacted bosch, and this is what they said:
We noticed that your Phone operating system is not up to date, if possible please update your phone OS.

Once updated, please double check the settings for the Flow App, and make sure that Location is set to "Always allow".

We will review this matter with our team and determine if any further steps are needed.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us via phone (833) BOSCH-EB (267-2432) or email at [email protected]. Please reference your case number ....

Best Regards,

lol something says thats not gonna do shit
i never ride with the stupid flow app running
they're like we'll let you know if that fixes it

FYI,

I spoke to Bosch again yesterday and they did not confirm but “simi confirmed” that it is very possible a firmware issue, the app Team is in Germany and back early next week, what I took away from the conversation is it’s possible we’ll see a firmware v.2 pushing sometime soon. Also they confirmed that it is not isolated to Trek bikes however Trek is the biggest user of the new Bosch Smart System, for all you boutique brand rides double check your rides this weekend.

 

[scooby82r]

Yep ive got the double mileage issue. Went out today after updating my 22 9.8. Did 22 miles recorded 44 on the bike.

Do you think Bosch will rectify the incorrect speedo reading?

 

[Jeremybub]

Yep ive got the double mileage issue. Went out today after updating my 22 9.8. Did 22 miles recorded 44 on the bike.

Do you think Bosch will rectify the incorrect speedo reading?

Bosch said no, that is why my bike is sitting at Folsom Trek.
Please Make sure you are reporting the issue to Bosch, create a incident so you are getting updates, also the more reporting the higher priority to rectify the issue
(833) BOSCH-EB (267-2432) or email [email protected]
Share Strava images of similar rides or if you have a Garmin use that to compare the Bosch smart system ride.

 

[Paul Mac]

Anyone got any updates on this issue.
Called Bosch again, still no answers.
Called Trek head office, who said never heard of the problem, FFS!

 

[Jeremybub]

Anyone got any updates on this issue.
Called Bosch again, still no answers.
Called Trek head office, who said never heard of the problem, FFS!

I spoke to Trek again yesterday, they shipped out a new “Trek specific” speed sensor to the Folsom Trek shop. It was shipped under warranty so they said it was priority shipped, hope to hear tomorrow and I will post what the results are.
I have a call with Bosch tomorrow to hear what the application developers identified.

 

[scooby82r]

This is the response I got in the UK...

Thank you for contacting Bosch eBike team.

Bosch eBike is aware of the "double-mileage" issue and is looking for a solution.

Please take your eBike to an authorised dealer in order to open a technical case.

We will need;
- eBike diagnostic report
- Smartphone Model & software Version
- Screenshot of one activity

We also kindly ask you for the patience whilst we work on the solution.

Thank you and wishing you a pleasant day.

 

[Jeremybub]

This is the response I got in the UK...

Thank you for contacting Bosch eBike team.

Bosch eBike is aware of the "double-mileage" issue and is looking for a solution.

Please take your eBike to an authorised dealer in order to open a technical case.

We will need;
- eBike diagnostic report
- Smartphone Model & software Version
- Screenshot of one activity

We also kindly ask you for the patience whilst we work on the solution.

Thank you and wishing you a pleasant day.

Thanks shared this with my Local Trek service manager, I’ll let you know what he says

 

[Jeremybub]

Thanks shared this with my Local Trek service manager, I’ll let you know what he says

Anyone know If this update is the fix for the mileage and speed issue?

 

[Paul Mac]

Anyone know If this update is the fix for the mileage and speed issue?

View attachment 106782

I've just installed it and connected to my bike, it still says the bike software is up to date.
But this may be the precursor to the update, fingers crossed

 

[Jeremybub]

FYI, update from Bosch regarding the resent app update which has been a pleasure to work with and Trek in Folsom.

I contacted Trek Folsom they elaborate on what Bosch said, so here is the deal, per Trek, the NEW elongated magnet on the Rails (with smart system) is double reading the rotation because of the size, this is what Trek engineers which is starting to believe, they are going to install the small round 6 bolt magnet on my bike today to see if this remedies the issue. I hope to hear more by tomorrow.

Note from Bosch:
Hi Jeremy,

The Flow App update that you are seeing is just a normal App update and will not fix the issue that you are having with the Speed/Mileage error.

We believe that the issue is related to the speed sensor or the rotor magnet on the eBike. I spoke to Mike at Trek Folsom and he has already ordered you the replacement parts directly from Trek (non-Bosch made parts) and when he gets them he will be reaching out to you.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us via phone (833) BOSCH-EB (267-2432) or email at [email protected] . Please reference your case number 130376.