Rail (750Wh) Bosch Smart V5 update Mileage/Speed error

[JP-NZ]

What a complete balls up, considering Trek is one of the biggest users of Bosch motors and software. Its incomprehensible to me that Bosch's own magnet causes an issue with their own software. To top it off they aren't going to fix it??

Replacing the Bosch magnet on Trek's with some 3rd party magnet is not really a proper fix for the thousands of bikes out there.

The fact that nobody obviously did any testing on the update is beyond stupid. If I had done the update I would be F**king FUMING!

Bottom line I still believe this is a software issue

 

[Paul Mac]

I've got to admit, I'm very sceptical about it being the magnet, yes it's slightly longer but enough to make it double read?

 

[Tomroy]

Have tried the standard magnet off my spare bike- focus, made no difference. Trek has been using its own magnet since the beginning and has never been an issue.

 

[Paul Mac]

Have tried the standard magnet off my spare bike- focus, made no difference. Trek has been using its own magnet since the beginning and has never been an issue.

This is worrying, as if this fix doesn't work, it means they're no closer to a remedy than they were two weeks ago.

 

[JP-NZ]

The magnet story is BS IMHO because how does the magnet work fine from when the bike was new and then an "update" causes an issue with the magnet?

 

[timohe]

I have the same problem. Trek 9.8 2022 recording double mileage and double average speed. Called Bosch Help Center this morning, they are aware of the problem and said an update fixing the issue is coming in next 2-3 days.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Maybe they've enabled the motor and the remote sensor at the same time and all the trek bikes also have a secret rim magnet.... but probably not

As the speed sensor worked fine before, the only reason you can imagine that anyone would play with the software for it would be to make it harder to de-restrict ? Presumably, with the larger magnet it thinks it's getting a false signal so it doubles it up, either accidentally (due to it being more sensitive) or compensatory for a presumed device being present.

I don't think there's anyway to move the magnet or sensor further away from each other, so a smaller magnet is the only thing you can try ? You'd imagine someone's tested this if they're suggesting it ?

 

[Jeremybub]

So my local Trek call yesterday evening and said We fixed it, took it for a test ride and it’s all good, i said what are you serious and they said yes my tech road it really slow and it was registering correctly, (who the F rides really slow owning a EMTB I thought ) that blow my mind, luckily they are close so I went down with my Garmin in hand again and took my known .75 mile loop around the Trek Shop I’m Folsom, return to the shop and no change…. Clearly it’s not the “Trek specific magnet” Mike
The service manager is calling Bosch again this morning to see the next step in troubleshooting process. This troubleshooting started on 2/6/2023.
This is absolutely a Firmware issue with Bosch!
What company who works software doesn’t test there product prior to release it to the public, not to mention have a back-out plan if post release issues of this nature arise especially with there largest partnership. Very disappointing!
I’ll be calling Bosch first thing this morning.

 

[JP-NZ]

Bosch should roll everyone back to the previous firmware.

 

[Arminius]

Bosch should roll everyone back to the previous firmware.

How shall they do? Update is coming via App to all bikes. When „donwgrading“ at the dealer it might easily happen bike will be updated when being online again.
All other no-Trekies might not like being rolled back as it is working well and it appears to be a Trek issue only!?

BTW is there no post to be found in „German“ forums, at least I did not find it or get response.

 

[JP-NZ]

How shall they do? Update is coming via App to all bikes. When „donwgrading“ at the dealer it might easily happen bike will be updated when being online again.
All other no-Trekies might not like being rolled back as it is working well and it appears to be a Trek issue only!?

Well it worked fine for you and everyone else on the previous version did it not? They won't do it of course, they'll take their time and push a new software update in a week or two.

This all comes down to Bosch not testing the software before it goes out, its preschool stuff really

 

[Mikerb]

Seems to me the Bosch Smart system is generic with the only potential non Bosch component being the speed sensor. The only explanation I can think of is that there are parts of the firmware that are optional but only capable of being selected by an authorised dealer with the diagnostic interface. Was it not the case that the rider modes available ( I think in the Gen2 Bosch system) were able to be set differently for some brands previously, as an example? Given it seems only Trek bikes are affected I wonder if there is something on the dealer diagnostic screen that needs to be deselected?? Maybe associated with how the bike max speed is altered for different geographic regions?? I really cannot see Bosch releasing anything other than generic firmware updates applicable for any ebike Flow connected bike.

 

[paquo]

Bosch should roll everyone back to the previous firmware.

Aside from the odo issue the new version is quite an improvement. The previous update was useless with the unusable nav and other features i will %100 never use and takes up kiox space . Now i have my rail dialed in with closer spacing of power output in the top 3 settings and then a bit of a drop off to eco. I hope they fix it because i couldn't go back

 

[Jeremybub]

Bosch confirmed it is a Trek specific issue, no rollback of the firmware rolled out.
My Local Trek corporate store acknowledged it’s a Trek issue.
As note on my prior post, to help move this along and solve this together with Trek & Bosch I took my “Bosch” specific 6 bolt magnet (left over from my Orbea Wild FS) to Trek Folsom, they installed it on my 2022 Rail 9.8, & unfortunately no dice.
Which means it only leaves two options
1. Speed sensor cable - this is being swapped on Saturday
2. No solution, Trek will provide a loaner bike until solution it found

Both Trek and Bosch are doing everything they can, I hope to support them where I can, of course there is limitation, my Rails is less then 2 months old and it’s been in the shop for 11 of those roughly 60 days with this issue.

Photos from my starve ride today attached.

 

[Paul Mac]

Mate had a new controller fitted by Trek dealer, purposefully didn't update to the recent software, but the result is, it still records the double mileage.
So looks like the software changes code in the other peripheral components also.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'd imagine the problem is caused by the firmware on the motor itself.

It will be interesting further down the line if part of this upgrade is also made to the firmware on the none smart Gen4's for shop install and if that also screws up the older Trek's. Or is the Trek specific sensor only used on the Smart Rails ?

 

[Paul Mac]

I wonder if all the Bosch gen 4 motors are capable of running the valve mounted magnet?
Then just ditch the Trek speed sensor altogether.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I wonder if all the Bosch gen 4 motors are capable of running the valve mounted magnet?
Then just ditch the Trek speed sensor altogether.

I wonder if someone is brave enough to try it !!

The setting needs changing over by a shop. There were some comments saying that once it was set that way, you couldn't change it back, but that sounds unlikely.

At the moment it looks like the quickest fix is to install a planet 3.

Maybe @Alex @ PLANET3.bike can offer a promo code like "My Trek is fecked" ..

 

[Paul Mac]

I wonder if someone is brave enough to try it !!

The setting needs changing over by a shop. There were some comments saying that once it was set that way, you couldn't change it back, but that sounds unlikely.

At the moment it looks like the quickest fix is to install a planet 3.

Maybe @Alex @ PLANET3.bike can offer a promo code like "My Trek is fecked" ..

Oh the irony, having to put a derestricting device on, to make it read the correct speed

 

[Jeremybub]

No dice again, Trek swapped out the Trek speed sensor wire and same result, double mile and double speed. The Trek Folsom team is continuing to Work with Bosch tech support and their corporate team to solve the issue after the Bosch Firmware update.
Bosch and Treks current thought is since the issue is isolated to Trek bikes and the only “Trek developed parts” are the magnet and speed sensor cable it has to be the root of the double miles and speed
Bosch offer and Trek took the offer to have Bosch development ship out a Bosch speed sensor and magnet to try on my Rail 9.8gx. Eta is Tuesday February 22nd. Fingers Crossed.

 

[JP-NZ]

I see there is another flow app update out. Version 1.11.6. *minor bug fixes*

 

[irie]

I see there is another flow app update out. Version 1.11.6. *minor bug fixes*

Back in the day we used M.U.B where:

M was the Major release

U was the Update (new features)

B was Bug fixes on the Update

Might be the same for Bosch ...

 

[Jeremybub]

I see there is another flow app update out. Version 1.11.6. *minor bug fixes*

Hey JP-NZ, That Flow App release came out on the 15th of February for “minor bug fixes”, in one of my prior post I shared Bosch’s response when I asked if this was the fix to the mileage and speed issue. That is where Bosch acknowledged it is solely a Trek issue.

 

[Paul Mac]

No dice again, Trek swapped out the Trek speed sensor wire and same result, double mile and double speed. The Trek Folsom team is continuing to Work with Bosch tech support and their corporate team to solve the issue after the Bosch Firmware update.
Bosch and Treks current thought is since the issue is isolated to Trek bikes and the only “Trek developed parts” are the magnet and speed sensor cable it has to be the root of the double miles and speed
Bosch offer and Trek took the offer to have Bosch development ship out a Bosch speed sensor and magnet to try on my Rail 9.8gx. Eta is Tuesday February 22nd. Fingers Crossed.

Do you know if the Bosch magnet, is the valve mounted type with the speed sensor reading straight from the motor?
I've spoken to Bosch today and in their opinion that is the only fix for the treks

 

[scooby82r]

Please forgive me if I'm being a bit daft but ....
We had no issue before the update so the Trek wires/magnet worked.
Surely if it worked before then they can make it work again. Why would we need new hardware ??

 

[Paul Mac]

Please forgive me if I'm being a bit daft but ....
We had no issue before the update so the Trek wires/magnet worked.
Surely if it worked before then they can make it work again. Why would we need new hardware ??

My guessing is Bosch has built more anti tampering in their own speed sensors, but Trek ones haven't.
Therefore it has to be a Bosch speed sensor and the wired ones don't fit in the cut outs on the Trek swingarm.

 

[scooby82r]

My guessing is Bosch has built more anti tampering in their own speed sensors, but Trek ones haven't.
Therefore it has to be a Bosch speed sensor and the wired ones don't fit in the cut outs on the Trek swingarm.

So Bosch is really saying use our hardware or you're screwed ?

 

[Jeremybub]

My guessing is Bosch has built more anti tampering in their own speed sensors, but Trek ones haven't.
Therefore it has to be a Bosch speed sensor and the wired ones don't fit in the cut outs on the Trek swingarm.

This his is the Bosch 6 bolt Magnet Trek tried on my Rail SS 9,8 with the stock Trek speed sensor cable, no change.

 

[Jeremybub]

So Bosch is really saying use our hardware or you're screwed ?

That would be shitty if it comes down to that but it is starting to look that way.

 

[Jeremybub]

My guessing is Bosch has built more anti tampering in their own speed sensors, but Trek ones haven't.
Therefore it has to be a Bosch speed sensor and the wired ones don't fit in the cut outs on the Trek swingarm.

Yeah, I asked Trek what the difference is between the two fitting in the rear triangle, the Trek folks did have awnser which is a concern of mine, guess we’ll see when the parts arrive. More to come.