Bosch Smart System: auto mode.

[Signman1987]

So what's the difference between emtb and auto?

As far as I understand EMTB will work from Tour to Turbo and just give you more power when needed at any given moment. Auto works from Eco to Turbo and apparently enables you to maintain any given speed (up to maximum assistance of course) by selecting whatever mode is needed to do so. It’s a bit like trying to explain the offside rule I think, hopefully I will know better after first ride

 

[Mikerb]

As far as I understand EMTB will work from Tour to Turbo and just give you more power when needed at any given moment. Auto works from Eco to Turbo and apparently enables you to maintain any given speed (up to maximum assistance of course) by selecting whatever mode is needed to do so. It’s a bit like trying to explain the offside rule I think, hopefully I will know better after first ride

bit like a modern 8 speed auto gearbox except it uses graduated pedal assist rather than by changing the gearing.

 

[venicenerd]

Is there a website that explains all of the different modes so I can decide which ones I want on my bike?

I just received my Charger 4 with the Bosch Performance Line Speed Motor (45km/h) and I had the following modes pre-installed:

- Eco
- Auto
- Sport
- Turbo

I really have no idea what the differences between Sport and Turbo is, for example. Also don’t know if I should replace either one of them with the Tour mode I keep reading on here since I don’t know what any of them mean.

 

[nik4o77]

Here is one of the best explanations :

 

[nik4o77]

I just got my bike, did the latest software update but don't see AUTO mode. Anyone know how to get it ?

Your Bosch Dealer must enable it via Diagnostic tool.

 

[Maco]

Hi EMTB,

I've been driving this setup for about a month now. The same day that the Bosch dealer installed it, I cycled on AUTO MODE elevation ascent 330m in a length of 3km (11%). I enjoyed it, it was easy and without any problems. I like it because I don't have to change gears so often. After a couple of days, the same tour on AUTO MODE and halfway through, the Bosch Kiox 300 informs me that the battery has overheated and has shut down for safety. Then I couldn't turn on the drive for at least 3 hours (waiting with a 2 beer).
Now, in AUTO MODE and TURBO MODE, after 5 minutes on a slope hill (over 8%), the BIKE turns off. It just turns off and I can immediately turn it back on. And so several times.
Does anyone else have such an experience?
p.s.- On 01.01.2023 I cycled on my hill Pohorje (where is WorldCup downhill) with an elevation gain of 1600m and 22% of the battery remained (-3 degrees). it could easily go over the 2000m elevation ascent.

 

[Mikerb]

What battery is the Kiox saying is overheating? Main battery or LED Remote battery? Your current power down issues look more likely to be related to the latter.

 

[Maco]

What battery is the Kiox saying is overheating? Main battery or LED Remote battery? Your current power down issues look more likely to be related to the latter.

I do not remember. This only happens during climbs, on the flat everything works as it should. I know I have to go to the Bosch dealer. I'm just wondering if anyone has had similar problems.

 

[Expidia]

Question if my 2022 model will accept the Auto mode update? It's a 2023 Trek Powerfly FS9 equipped purchased 7/22/22 and I'm thinking the Smart system was added to the 2023 Trek Powerfly platform during a mid year change because this Bosch link quotes Smart System was being added to all 2023 models on the Powerfly platform: Trek Bicycle Launches New Powerfly eMTB Models with Bosch Smart System – ebikes Int'l
If I remember I think the system has to use the pic witht the LED colored lights rather than the black rubber button model I have.
* it does have ETMB mode which in past models was Sport mode.
* It came OEM with the Bosch Smart Phone Hub which I switched out for the Bosch Nyon control unit.
Thx

 

[Expidia]

So what's the difference between emtb and auto?

I think it's best to read the entire thread first which answers that question.

 

[Arminius]

Hi EMTB,
View attachment 111534

I've been driving this setup for about a month now. The same day that the Bosch dealer installed it, I cycled on AUTO MODE elevation ascent 330m in a length of 3km (11%). I enjoyed it, it was easy and without any problems. I like it because I don't have to change gears so often. After a couple of days, the same tour on AUTO MODE and halfway through, the Bosch Kiox 300 informs me that the battery has overheated and has shut down for safety. Then I couldn't turn on the drive for at least 3 hours (waiting with a 2 beer).
Now, in AUTO MODE and TURBO MODE, after 5 minutes on a slope hill (over 8%), the BIKE turns off. It just turns off and I can immediately turn it back on. And so several times.
Does anyone else have such an experience?
p.s.- On 01.01.2023 I cycled on my hill Pohorje (where is WorldCup downhill) with an elevation gain of 1600m and 22% of the battery remained (-3 degrees). it could easily go over the 2000m elevation ascent.

As to switching off, I had similar probs when I got the bike and found that I pressed without intention and notice the power on/off button on the remote control unit.

 

[Ark]

Auto mode doesn't sound like it's for MTBs but something for city bikes and hybrids where the rider wants to ride at a leisurely cadence with the motor giving more and more assistance to try and maintain their current speed.

I'm guessing that means it drains a battery quicker than Tour+ and EMTB mode, which both seem to give motor assistance depending on the riders cadence/torque applied to the pedals. and meaning some increased effort is needed to maintain speed.

Definitely don't see why I would want it to replace any mode on my bike.

those being
Eco (Almost worthless unless you need to try and grind your way home on low battery, but nice to knows it's there for emergencies)
Tour+ (My standard go to)
EMTB (Don't really use it in all honestly but sounds better than Auto for my needs)
Turbo. (Basically EMTB on steroids if it's set to +5 assistance and use it for the steepest of hills)

Even if Auto was a 5th mode I don't see why I would ever use it.

flow app needs better tuning options though, "Assistance being 1-5" should probably be assistance in percentage terms from 60-340% in 1% increments but I guess Bosch assume people like simplicity and options are confusing because society seems to be ont he decline and that's how all apps are going these days

 

[Shark58]

Question if my 2022 model will accept the Auto mode update?

If you have a Nyon your bike does not have the smart system motor and can not accept the Auto mode.

 

[Shark58]

Turbo. (Basically EMTB on steroids if it's set to +5 assistance and use it for the steepest of hills)

For Turbo mode setting assistance to any +value has no effect.

The +/- value for assistance changes the original support value by +/- 10% to 50% of that value, ie +2 giving you +20% of the original value for that mode. Take Eco as example: Original support ist 60%. +2 results in 60% plus (20% of 60%) equals 72% support.

But (!) you will never get more than the maximum 340%. As Turbo is at 340% already the +5 adds nothing.

 

[Ark]

For Turbo mode setting assistance to any +value has no effect.

It feels like it does though? it's not always 340%? so maybe it affects the lower of the ranges?
the other setting for how quick the bike accelerates when you start pedalling definitely has an effect which would suggest 340% isn't always 340%

 

[Shark58]

the other setting for how quick the bike accelerates when you start pedalling definitely has an effect which would suggest 340% isn't always 340%

As I said, the motor never delivers more than 340% support and the plus values for support have no effect.
However, the second setting for dynamic has an effect. This setting controls how fast the motor reaches peak support when you start to turn the crank. You can feel the difference but it’s very short lived in Turbo mode.

 

[Mikerb]

I think you fail to understand exactly how the software controls the power delivery from the motor. The only performance parameters that most brands describe are the maximum NM the motor can deliver....e.g. 85nm for the Bosch performance CX, and "assist" as a % of the rider input.........in the case of the Bosch motor 340%..........ie 3.4 times rider input. Neither really tell you much about exactly how the power from the motor is delivered because that is determined by a software algorithm that integrates 3 factors: speed, cadence, and crank torque. The primary objective of the algorithm is to deliver a natural but effective ride assistance. For example, moving a bike from a standstill (overcoming inertia)requires greater rider torque than when the bike has achieved momentum. In that scenario cadence takes priority over rider torque in the algorithm so that power delivery is more progressive. Some motors now include yet another factor for algorithm.........reading whether the bike is on the level or an incline..............that probably features in the auto mode.
The most likely impact of using the tuning tools beyond the central marker to + 3 for example, is to increase motor power at lower rider torque and cadence levels such that a higher amount of motor power is delivered over a broader range of rider torque input. So for the EMTB mode it has always been possible to get the maximum assistance level ( 340%) but that would be far more difficult to access in terms of the rider torque/cadence required; tuning to say +3 will enable a bigger amount of the torque/cadence range to receive more power from the motor. The same can be said for the Turbo mode. In standard tune the rider does not immediately get 340% assistance, in fact it requires quite a high cadence to get maximum assistance in Turbo mode.
In practise I have found that using the 3 or 4 tuning for EMTB really transforms that mode into a go anywhere mode with very little need to ever change into Turbo except for extreme climbs.............and you only really feel a difference compared to EMTB if you use a really low gear and spin at 75 rpm plus.
With EMTB tuned to +2 it feels very similar in terms of pedal assistance to the "Trail" mode on a Brose set at 50% pedal assist/100% max.

 

[Shark58]

I think you fail to understand exactly how the software controls the power delivery from the motor.

Nobody, with the exception of Bosch, exactly understands that. This is their trade secret.

But when asked politely they sometimes reveal a few details. That is what I did after the Smart System and Flow App where announced and nobody had a clue what the user adjustable parameters did.

The answer from Bosch explained the +/- 1 to 5 for assistance to work as I described above. They also confirmed that you can’t exceed the maximum of 340% assistance in any mode. Actually you can now look this up on the public help pages from Bosch: I have increased the Assistance and/or Dynamic parameter. Why do I not feel any difference?

There you can also find why some adjustments seem to not do anything or make the motor support feel very unnatural. Mostly this happens when the user sets the different parameters to cancel each other out, e.g. setting assistance to max and at the same time setting max torque to a low level.

For the four linear modes the assistance value is level over the allowed speed range from 0 to 25 kph (in Europe). The maximum torque output (85 Nm) is level over the usable cadence range from 0 to about 85 rpm. The Watt output is a product of torque and cadence and therefore starts at zero for cadence zero and ends at max output of about 680 Watts for the CX Gen4 motors.

It gets more tricky with the newer dynamic modes eMTB, Tour+ and now Auto. The first two being influenced by rider input (torque), the third by short term moving average of speed and the external factors wind and slope of the road. Bosch has never revealed the algorithm behind the dynamics, so any curves are guesswork. Most guesses I have seen believe that the newly added adjustability of those modes simply shifts the curve down or up the assistance level one can reach but does not change the shape of the curve. Until we see an official version from Bosch your guess is as good as anyone’s.

 

[VWsurfbum]

 

[ChuckN]

So what's the difference between emtb and auto?

Auto range form eco to turbo
Emtb range from tour to turbo and emtb help when you ride more technical climbs it has the extended boost were you stop to pedal(maybe roots are in the way) and the motor wil give power for one wheel rotation
Something to get use

 

[Prozor]

Auto range form eco to turbo
Emtb range from tour to turbo and emtb help when you ride more technical climbs it has the extended boost were you stop to pedal(maybe roots are in the way) and the motor wil give power for one wheel rotation
Something to get use

No. The automatic mode helps maintain a more or less constant speed regardless of changes in slope or wind.