Bosch gen4 - tour mode too strong?

[Bummers]

Eco is customisable why not just increase its power to what you need?

 

[rzr]

t

Eco is customisable why not just increase its power to what you need?

that would be amazing, where? i couldn't find it (I don't have newest bosch 'smart' thingy)

 

[Bummers]

t

that would be amazing, where? i couldn't find it (I don't have newest bosch 'smart' thingy)

Ah right I didn't realise. The current Gen smart system allows you to customise eco & turbo in the Bosch flow app on your phone

 

[Zimmerframe]

Looks like
I have a strange feeling, that with all your experience and knowledge, You could tell this probably from my first post,
instead you chose to troll me for almost a week ....

Sorry if today's replies have been a bit sharp .. it's been a stressy day

I actually thought my first post was pointing out that the others were just trying to help you ?

Like post 6 from @Peaky Rider which pointed you in the right direction :

Post 7 from @cc_math ... which pointed you in the right direction :

And many more. It was only 2 days ago I decided to try and help you troll you.

Where I said/asked ..

and provided the graph which showed the differences between tour/magic tour etc - so you could have joined the dots ?

Without knowing exactly what you were doing, it's hard for anyone to be 100% conclusive of what's going on, but I think it's fair to say that everyone was consistent on pointing out that "tour" would not be behaving as you said it was. I'm not really sure you can claim that I/we are accountable for not immediately telling you that you had tour+ ??

I then gave more information about motor power in response to a sub-conversation and in my next post I said :

I'm not quite sure how else you wanted me to explain that. Only you can decide if A and B are correct or not ??

It seemed like a multiple choice quiz should be pretty straight forwards ?

On a positive note, at least we know you have Tour+. You're not broken. Your bike isn't broken and you have Tour+ which I'm sure you'll grow to love.

 

[rzr]

With this i'm lost again

I guess I have Tour+, which doesn't conserve energy... ?
eMTB Lite would do that, by NOT providing full power.

and you have Tour+ which I'm sure you'll grow to love.

I'll try to get rid of it

 

[Zimmerframe]

I guess I have Tour+, which doesn't conserve energy... ?
eMTB Lite would do that, by NOT providing full power.

It depends how you use it.

Tour is fixed at 140% of assistance, with a torque limit of 50nm - but generally feels like a flat line of assistance, but with too much for going steady.

Eco has a fixed 60% assistance with a torque limit of 40nm

Tour+ has assistance starting at 60%, so compared to just running in tour, depending on how you're riding, you could conserve energy compared to using just tour. Lets say for example you were riding and it assisted between 60% and 120% - you'd use a lot less battery than riding at a fixed 140% assistance.

eMTB lite may conserve you energy compared to tour+ of you were riding harder as it only gives 140%-250% ? But tour+ gives you a wider spread. Most people prefer Tour+ over emtb lite, but we're all different so not everyone.

Your dealer should be able to switch your tour+ to tour if you want it.

 

[rzr]

yes, this is exactly what I understand, eMTB lite allows you to save energy, coz it's capped (you will never use full power).
with Tour+ I use full power like in eMtb/Turbo - something I want to avoid.

 

[Bomble]

I admire your patience Zimmer
I prefer emtb lite to plus by the way

 

[WNH]

Today I decided to check range of my Trek Rail gen4 625Wh in Eco mode,
however after doing ~1600m elevation i had 50% battery and decided to speed up, to finish the battery before sunset
so I switched to Tour mode (I don't have any +),
and I noticed that battery was eaten quite fast, I started doing some 'tests' and switching modes Tour - eMTB while climbing and I didn't feel difference (or almost no difference). It felt like the same amount of support, when I was producing more than 260-280W. (climbs were steep, with speeds ~15km/h, my cadence on climbs is around 80-85rpm, 73kg weight)
Do you feel the same?
Is it possible to set Tour to less assistance? (of course still more than Eco).

Unfortunately that mode (or any mode) can't be tuned. When I purchased my Trek Rail in Feb. of 2021 the Tour mode was perfect. It responded exactly like the Eco mode but with a little more assistance, just like you think it should. After about 3 weeks of riding I had an issue with the battery which Bosch replaced immediately. When they did they updated the software and it changed the Tour mode to a Tour Plus mode. It now has more torque but about the same max output as the original Tour mode. I am not a fan of the Tour Plus mode. So in short, I agree with you, it has more torque/power than it should. Whatever software version they were using in February of 2021 was perfect.

 

[Sander23]

All this nonsense of tour giving the same power as turbo.
i can say pretty sure that tour and turbo are pretty far from each other.
If you want to feel the difference in power then you would have to deristrict the motor. When i ride my deristricted bosch On the flats or even with a slight uphill on turbo, the bike almost turns into a "racemachine". The amount of power/torque/watts( whatevee you want to call it) it has when I go full out.. even my legs can't get up with that or i would have to put a bigger chainring then then the current 38t.
there is no way in hell your getting that on regular tour mode if you ride it the same way

 

[emtbPhil]

I've never really understood all the misconception about Tour+
I love it, do 90% of my rides just permanently in Tour+

If you're on a nice flat trail, you're using basically the same power as Eco, but if you really start to work hard on a climb you get a bit more like EMTB mode of assist. My battery lasts forever and for me it's the mode that feels most like a real bike as the more effort you put in the more it helps.

I know that even the Bosch graphs have seemed to suggest you can get the full turbo assist out of Tour+ but IME that's not the case, I've tried some very heavy climbs pedalling absolutely flat out but going into turbo definitely offers more power. Maybe Tour+ will give you turbo levels of power if you're an olympic athlete and doing 130 cadence or something lol

 

[E-MAD MALC]

I've never really understood all the misconception about Tour+
I love it, do 90% of my rides just permanently in Tour+

If you're on a nice flat trail, you're using basically the same power as Eco, but if you really start to work hard on a climb you get a bit more like EMTB mode of assist. My battery lasts forever and for me it's the mode that feels most like a real bike as the more effort you put in the more it helps.

I know that even the Bosch graphs have seemed to suggest you can get the full turbo assist out of Tour+ but IME that's not the case, I've tried some very heavy climbs pedalling absolutely flat out but going into turbo definitely offers more power. Maybe Tour+ will give you turbo levels of power if you're an olympic athlete and doing 130 cadence or something lol

I have actually just read this post and its given me headache
All i can say is i reckon Bosch know what there doing with these drive modes
I have a Nyon and its nice to have the ability to adjust output
I'm happy
Goodnight

 

[Giff]

I know it won’t apply to this post but on the new Bosch smart system you can adjust Eco and Turbo assist levels yourself from your phone.
…….and if you get Tour+ taken off you can adjust that as well. Maybe an excuse to upgrade your bike?

 

[JP-NZ]

I know it won’t apply to this post but on the new Bosch smart system you can adjust Eco and Turbo assist levels yourself from your phone.
…….and if you get Tour+ taken off you can adjust that as well. Maybe an excuse to upgrade your bike?

Do you know if its possible to revert to tour from tour+ on a smart system?

 

[Bomble]

Do you know if its possible to revert to tour from tour+ on a smart system?

Yes you can, you can then adjust normal tour mode

 

[Giff]

Yes you can but your dealer has to do it…..plug-in and 2 min job.

 

[stiv674]

I had Tour mode on mine when I first got it, despite asking for the latest firmware prior to delivery... I found it worked well in combination with Eco but didn't give enough on steeper climbs so then resorted to Emtb mode, so rather a lot of mode changes during a ride.

I then had Tour+ installed a few months ago and that's pretty much the only mode I use now, if I work hard enough on a steep climb it gives me max assistance, only at the end of a long ride when I'm tired do I switch to Emtb mode.

My only criticism is now Eco is pretty redundant, it would be nice if that was similarly adaptive but maxed out at a lower assist/torque level, maybe 150%/50Nm...

Tour+ is great for practicing wheelies not so great is my ability to do so...

 

[hainman]

Wow that’s 20 minutes of my life I ain’t getting back 🫣

 

[rzr]

Wow that’s 20 minutes of my life I ain’t getting back 🫣

just don't use Bosch

 

[hainman]

Been on Bosch for 2 1/4 years
Brilliant motor,never an issue and definite feel in different motor settings

 

[rzr]

Problem solved, I went to Trek Centre, however they couldn't connect Bosch app to my bike, something didn't work, they've asked me to wait few days/a week.

Meanwhile
I bough Spesh Turbo Levo - PROBLEM SOLVED. What a difference ! Everything Is done in a way it should ! Proper display integrated within a frame, super small intuitive handlebar controller, mobile app that allows you to customise all power settings and Ant+/BLE - you can record all data (power,cadence,battery) with your device (garmin for example).

this clearly shows that Bosch knows nothing about MTB ....

(I'm not comparing motors here, Spesh has different feeling, more natural? and also I super quiet on descents. however both do the job)

 

[JP-NZ]

Problem solved, I went to Trek Centre, however they couldn't connect Bosch app to my bike, something didn't work, they've asked me to wait few days/a week.

Meanwhile
I bough Spesh Turbo Levo - PROBLEM SOLVED. What a difference ! Everything Is done in a way it should ! Proper display integrated within a frame, super small intuitive handlebar controller, mobile app that allows you to customise all power settings and Ant+/BLE - you can record all data (power,cadence,battery) with your device (garmin for example).

this clearly shows that Bosch knows nothing about MTB ....

I'd seriously look at specialized too, but I just cannot trust the Brose motor with its well known issues.

 

[JP-NZ]

I'm in a similar boat here, I have Gen 4 CX MY22. I climb in Eco or Tour+, I only use Emtb on climbs if its near vertical steepness. With the flow app I have Eco set to +3 power and torque at 85nm. Tour+ is great for climbing but it would be nice to drop support a few levels as it does provide tonnes of power when cadence is high. The difference between Eco and Tour+ is huge yet the difference between Tour+ and EMTB is minor IMHO.

I can custom mode the turbo and Eco modes but can't touch the Tour+ or EMTB. I believe thats because they are custom tuned by Bosch/Trek/Whoever... and they don't want them changed.

Now with the latest smart system update I can finally lower the power in Tour+.

My Eco stays at +2 Power Torque at 70nm
Tour+ is now -2 Power and Torque at 75nm