Bafang m510

[KaroKönig]

Same. I also tried it, but it did not load from the BESST tool to the engine. I did it 100% according to the process described. I understand that @captainhightop did it successfully. So what are we doing wrong?
Did You change the file name before uploading?

It must be the bin file, tried to install the standard firmware again this morning and it worked without any problems

 

[captainhightop]

It must be the bin file, tried to install the standard firmware again this morning and it worked without any problems

I decided to recheck mine and I was mistaken, it didn't flash. I was maybe mislead by my inexperience of flashing the m series controller.

I reflashed the older file and although it flashed, now the drive can't be turned on by any of my HMIs (DP240, E160 and whatever the one with is called)

The drive can still be turned on by the besst tool and shows all the expected info as can 2 out of the 3 displays.

I can also do a motor calibration and it moves the motor, probably going to have to bust out the canbus dongle and have a closer look.

I'm not entirely sure how this has happened, but it's obviously an issue that could happen if we're flashing controllers.

I've swapped the main bus connection to the controller and that didn't make a difference.

Swapping my M600 motor back in worked with the DP241 and E160 controllers but after plugging in the DP C2320.C it is now unresponsive too.

There is also a high pitch buzz coming from the E160 controller and the display kind of flickers on and off.

I think there is damage on the controller board although how this can happen I have no idea:

Looks like bulging on the package
here's the whole controller:

 

[KaroKönig]

I decided to recheck mine and I was mistaken, it didn't flash. I was maybe mislead by my inexperience of flashing the m series controller.

I reflashed the older file and although it flashed, now the drive can't be turned on by any of my HMIs (DP240, E160 and whatever the one with is called)

The drive can still be turned on by the besst tool and shows all the expected info as can 2 out of the 3 displays.

I can also do a motor calibration and it moves the motor, probably going to have to bust out the canbus dongle and have a closer look.

I'm not entirely sure how this has happened, but it's obviously an issue that could happen if we're flashing controllers.

I've swapped the main bus connection to the controller and that didn't make a difference.

Swapping my M600 motor back in worked with the DP241 and E160 controllers but after plugging in the DP C2320.C it is now unresponsive too.

There is also a high pitch buzz coming from the E160 controller and the display kind of flickers on and off.

I think there is damage on the controller board although how this can happen I have no idea:
View attachment 87637
Looks like bulging on the package
here's the whole controller:
View attachment 87638

Is this the controller from the M600 ?

 

[captainhightop]

Is this the controller from the M600 ?

Yes, looks like attaching the HMI from the M510 fried it, to be clear it worked initially, with the E160 HMI (used walkmode). Then I thought I see if the C230 controller worked with it and it never fried something. Looking at the board it sort of responds to the - button and the pwr button (green light on controller board, but not enough power seems to get to the display). I'm working into it, but I think both m510 and m600 are now dead (well sort of). Maybe a HMI powered from another source would work as some things work with the BESST controller attached (motor calibration for instance). Unfortunately I'm pushed for time at the moment, so this isn't going to get fixed today :-(

 

[KaroKönig]

Is anyone able to read their sensor data with the BESST tool?

 

[KaroKönig]

Yes, looks like attaching the HMI from the M510 fried it, to be clear it worked initially, with the E160 HMI (used walkmode). Then I thought I see if the C230 controller worked with it and it never fried something. Looking at the board it sort of responds to the - button and the pwr button (green light on controller board, but not enough power seems to get to the display). I'm working into it, but I think both m510 and m600 are now dead (well sort of). Maybe a HMI powered from another source would work as some things work with the BESST controller attached (motor calibration for instance). Unfortunately I'm pushed for time at the moment, so this isn't going to get fixed today :-(

You have my sympathy, it's a shame about the two engines. And all because BAFANG is not able to deliver its engines with a reasonable software
So it's no wonder that no major bike manufacturer wants to work with BAFANG
And the BESST-Tool better called "BEAST-Tool"

 

[captainhightop]

You have my sympathy, it's a shame about the two engines. And all because BAFANG is not able to deliver its engines with a reasonable software
So it's no wonder that no major bike manufacturer wants to work with BAFANG

Yes, I'm at a loss to see how a failed upgrade to the m510 can trash a HMI so badly that plugging it into another motor can trash that too. Seems like a very bad design. There's still hope though, as I think it might be the power going up from the controller to the HMI that is the issue as CAN comms seems to work between everything with the BESST plugged in. I'm going to try the throttle out this evening see if that works, better than nothing! Also need to check the P+ voltage on the power connector see if that is low. I've got a new M510 on the way as a spare from Greenbikekit, but am very wary about changing anything after this.

 

[Puschtrale]

I do experience a lot of motor cut offs during my testrides with the m510. I dont know where the problem is but sometimes it immidiately stops delivering power for a second, then 3-4 secons everything good, again 1 sec of no power at all and further on. It seems like the torque sensor does not work properly and it doesnt mater how much input i put on the pedals and also what cadence i pedal - it is the same regardless the assist mode i use. With this motor it is just not able to ride.

 

[patdam]

I do experience a lot of motor cut offs during my tesrides with the m510. I dont know where the problem is but sometimes it immkdiately stops delivering power for a second, then 3-4 secons everything good, again 1 sec of no power at all and further on. It seems like the torque sensor dies not work properly and it doesnt mater how much input i put on the pedals and also what cadsnce i pedal - it is the same regardless the assist mode i use. With this motor it is just not able to ride.

the speed displayed on screen seem normal ?

 

[Migli54]

the speed displayed on screen seem normal ?

I have exactly the same problem... It assists then cuts then assists at times. Yes the speed sensor gives the right information. It is not a problem of cut because it detects the vmax. I removed the speed limit to be sure...

 

[ficorama]

I do experience a lot of motor cut offs during my tesrides with the m510. I dont know where the problem is but sometimes it immkdiately stops delivering power for a second, then 3-4 secons everything good, again 1 sec of no power at all and further on. It seems like the torque sensor dies not work properly and it doesnt mater how much input i put on the pedals and also what cadsnce i pedal - it is the same regardless the assist mode i use. With this motor it is just not able to ride.

I'm already used to it! at lower cadences cutoffs occur. when the cadence is raised everything is ok. i think sooner or later it will be fixed with a firmware upgrade. the power at the start and the power on the climbs were obtained, they probably didn't program the ideal algorithm for an easier ride! as i already wrote, giant syncdrive pro behaves very similarly!

 

[KaroKönig]

I wanted to calibrate the torque sensor but that doesn't work because it can't be read out. With the M600 this is no problem. The M510 has very good hardware but miserable software
BAFANG would have to allow an app for the M510, as with the M620, all parameters can be changed via EggRider.

 

[Puschtrale]

the speed displayed on screen seem normal ?

Yes, all normal (speed and so) but of course power output drops down the moments when power is cutted off

 

[Puschtrale]

I'm already used to it! at lower cadences cutoffs occur. when the cadence is raised everything is ok. i think sooner or later it will be fixed with a firmware upgrade. the power at the start and the power on the climbs were obtained, they probably didn't program the ideal algorithm for an easier ride! as i already wrote, giant syncdrive pro behaves very similarly!
[/QUOTit has nothing to do at all with cadence. It occurs with low and high cadence, no difference.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Wow. That sucks about hardware damage from software mistakes. Sorry to hear about that, especially doing damage to 2 motors

 

[patdam]

Everybody who have the M510 and the problems of assist cuts are in 48 V ? somebody use 43 V rev ?

 

[Migli54]

Everybody who have the M510 and the problems of assist cuts are in 48 V ? somebody use 43 V rev ?

I have the problem and I have 43v version

 

[ficorama]

what kind of cutoff is going on? it only happens to me when I reduce the cadence and the pressure on the pedals. the rest of my engine works ok. can other users describe their problem? we don't all have the same problems with everything you write.

 

[thaeber]

I involved Chili again, told here the firmware seems to be faulty and cannot be updloaded. I asked her to join the forum and FB group to get first hand info, and forward customer feedback to Bafang.

 

[KaroKönig]

what kind of cutoff is going on? it only happens to me when I reduce the cadence and the pressure on the pedals. the rest of my engine works ok. can other users describe their problem? we don't all have the same problems with everything you write.

Had the first longer ride today and can't figure out the engine The first 5 miles were terrible with many dropouts and uneven power output. Then, after a short break turned the engine back on and run flawlessly for 15 miles without misfiring. Then after the second break every 3 seconds a longer drop out and almost no more power and then after 10 minutes of torment back to normal. Maybe a temperature problem?
After the ride the display say 27% Battery and the measure was 43,5 V

 

[thaeber]

Did You notice power reduction starting at 40% SoC?

 

[KaroKönig]

Did You notice power reduction starting at 40% SoC?

I can not say at 50 or 40%, but there was definitely a noticeable reduction in performance

 

[thaeber]

My motor works really great, beside of the battery attenuation topic. Only strange thing is after starting, it takes 100 or 200 meters of pedaling, with cutouts and only temporary motor support, before the motor starts to work correctly. Yesterday I did 45 km and 900 hm without any issues.

 

[Puschtrale]

Had the first longer ride today and can't figure out the engine The first 5 miles were terrible with many dropouts and uneven power output. Then, after a short break turned the engine back on and run flawlessly for 15 miles without misfiring. Then after the second break every 3 seconds a longer drop out and almost no more power and then after 10 minutes of torment back to normal. Maybe a temperature problem?
After the ride the display say 27% Battery and the measure was 43,5 V

Same with me but dont think it has to do with temperature because i was having the problem at the beginning and the motor felt not warm. I had the feeling it is worse when i was going uphill for a while and did make a brake to rest. After a few minutes we atarted again and the error occurred immidiately. Today i had this problem once more and couldnt use the motor anymore so i turned it off and changed the levels from 5 to 3, just o have a try. Suddenly the error was gone and i could finish the ride. Think there has to be a problem with the torque sensor or the sensor that measzres the cadence and rider input. Another problem is the derating of the motor - as @thaeber said under 40% the motor already derates and you sill nsver get the full power anymore. How can bafang programm such a firmware if we were discussing thia problem.already with the m500? They should know that it has no sense derating the motor power so early because you will never be able to finish a ride properly. It would be plenty enough derating the power under 20%.

 

[Afaixeda]

I have a M510 just recived on 48v and same problem !!

when ride in regular flat is fine, but when flat is with little holes is when motor cutting power assist any time.

i have 860c screen and i can see perfect faults and i have recorded with gopro, i try to attach video.

The responde from seller is thanks for testing product in development… if she no have solution show public your name an reputation shop seller.

This problem is big for sell this engine at gold price.

 

[thaeber]

Had the first longer ride today and can't figure out the engine The first 5 miles were terrible with many dropouts and uneven power output. Then, after a short break turned the engine back on and run flawlessly for 15 miles without misfiring. Then after the second break every 3 seconds a longer drop out and almost no more power and then after 10 minutes of torment back to normal. Maybe a temperature problem?
After the ride the display say 27% Battery and the measure was 43,5 V

Hmmm..27% SOC at 43.5V? At 43.5 V the battery is almost dead, according to @Kyokushin earlier this post (page 10) 43V = below 10%. 43V @ 13S battery is 3.3V per cell. Thats quite low in my opinion, if You pull high amps. Am I wrong?
Maybe I think the battery consumption is very good with M510, but instead the SOC level is monitored wrong?

 

[captainhightop]

Hmmm..27% SOC at 43.5V? At 43.5 V the battery is almost dead, according to @Kyokushin earlier this post (page 10) 43V = below 10%. 43V @ 13S battery is 3.3V per cell. Thats quite low in my opinion, if You pull high amps. Am I wrong?
Maybe I think the battery consumption is very good with M510, but instead the SOC level is monitored wrong?

I'm starting to think a 3rd party controller is the way to go on this, there is one possibility that might fit the bill:

Baserunner - Grin Products - Product Info

The Baserunner is a slim profile field-oriented motor controller that fits inside the baseplate of popular downtube battery packs. This product is based around ASI’s BAC355 controller platform ,but is configured and connectorized to be much easier to wire up in an aftermarket ebike.

ebikes.ca

The v4 apparently supports a torque sensor and PAS (it says 12V though, not sure what the one in the M510/M600 is). I've run the v3 phaserunner (different form factor same device basically) on my BBSHD for a few years now after suffering with the Bafang controller on that, so I know it's reliable. Apparently it will also run headless without the cycle analysist head unit, but not sure if that means no way to change the assist level.

I've just serviced the BBSHD based bike ready for Monday while I wait for the new M510, I'd forgotten how crazy it is (and I limited it to 750W on PAS which is pretty tame by BBSHD standards). Really miss the torque sensor for starting off and climbing though.

It also mentions hookup to 3rd party displays such as the eggrider (which people have expressed an interest in)

 

[VMG Chris]

Hi All,

To answer your questions regarding power drop out and battery SOC from my experience.

I have noticed power drops and for me there have been 2 reasons.

1. Speed sensor magnet adjustment. The M510 seems to be more sensitive to magnet position, but I'm using the new dropout sensor and brake rotor mounted magnet. Adjusting the position, and using stainless steel screws closest to the magnet resolved this.

2. Under very light crank pressure/torque, it does cut in and out. BUT I'm talking about very light pressure on the pedals. Once riding normally and in the correct gear, there are no issues.

In regard to the battery SOC. Because our trails have been constantly wet since January, and we have the 820Wh battery in the Typhon, I haven't been able to do a proper range test until the weekend just past. I did notice at 40% there was a significant power drop. I have been in contact with Bafang this morning, and they acknowledged this was for power saving and battery protection, however I have asked for less conservative attenuation, and it looks like they will build this for me. I'm not sure of the exact numbers they will do, but I asked for 12A at 30% and 10A at 20%.

If they provide a new version of firmware, I will ask if I can share it with you, but there's no guarantees that I'll be able share it. As mentioned previously I have a business relationship with Bafang, and I cannot jeopardize that.

 

[thaeber]

Thanks for the headsup Chris! I did a very careful adjustment of the speed sensor, and used stainless screws and shims earlier this year, as I observed misreadings with my M500. If You read through the thread, You find that the experience with M510 is pretty much inconsistent. My motor performance is great, beside of the power drop below 40%. Same with @ficorama. @Puschtrale reported hughe problems with drop outs, as well as others. Would be interesting if this is an easy fix.
In regards of battery attenuation, I asked Chili Shen to go back to Bafang and specifically ask for firmware update with following parameters:
12A cut at 44.5V (15% SoC)
10A cut at below 43V (7% SoC)
as suggested by @Kyokushin.
Lets see what the outcome is. I highly appreciate Your input Chris, as You have loads of experience with M510!

 

[thaeber]

Regarding point 2. of Your statement above, I can confirm this. I observe this when I‘m „sailing“ in flat or slightly descending terrain with very low pedal pressure, especially using higher PAS. Knowing that, I reduce PAS, and the effect fades to almost not noticeable.