Bafang M510 setup

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

Hi Martin, just wondering how you went with your Bafang motor?

Thanks for asking... well... I sent it to BAFANG, Poland... as requested and told to do by Joyebikes, China... I emailed them in Poland to inform them etc. etc. and they went crazy!! I mean Batshit crazy! "don't send it here... blah blah" "you need to send it back to Joyebikes in China" blah blah... I said.. get real!! I've been waiting on all this for 6 months now... and I have a faulty bloody motor!! Anyways, I was told to not converse with Poland atall.. .and just send it.. as the higher ups in China are dealing with it.. I sent it there within 2 days... Joyebikes told me they would reimburse me the postage (as yet feck all!) Poland has had it for going on 3 weeks.... It is now 14th June... I'm almost giving up! I feel like I never wanna even ride this bloody bike!! It is now red hot summer here... so no chance of that anyways until end of October now!! They keep telling me next week... next week... next week.... If I could send it all back, I would! I have never dealt with a bunch of no good assholes in all my life... and I was in Construction Business for most of that!!! (FULL of assholes!) - If this ever get's resolved.. I shall do a detailed post to try and WARN others of these 2 companies!!! NEVER AGAIN!! and I cannot be that unlucky!! so it must happen alot!!

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

Seriously considering to contact PAYPAL and get them to step in... I'd really rather have my money back now!! Totally sick of it!! wish I'd kept my Trek Fuel MTB!! I mean, everything to the build was easy.... even the spraying of paint... etc etc... I did all that in 1.5 days!! but the time this has taken... the problems... dealing with total ASSHOLES....I just don't need it... I'd recommend people to have their finger nails pulled out 1 by 1 rather than do a Chinese eMTB self build!!!

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

JOYEBIKES, China...............
NEVER EVER EVER BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM!! My full report shall be done whenever the hell they even get this sorted... at the rate it's going.... maybe next year!!!

 

[Sunburntwily]

OK we'll that's a bit shit. I have never heard of Joysebike. I think most of us dealt with Dengfu, (unless dengfu changed it's name?) Never had a good experience with PayPal they screwed me big time. We have very strong consumer laws here in Australia, (PayPals job is to run interference with those laws so be mindful of that) You must have similar consumer laws there. If it's not fit for purpose then you would be entitled to your money back. I would be more inclined to pursue local consumer rights/laws before PayPal or at least know your rights before PayPal try to fob you off. Not sure about time frames but charge backs through your bank is another possibility. Anyway good luck with it all, hope it all works out for you.

 

[patdam]

OK we'll that's a bit shit. I have never heard of Joysebike. I think most of us dealt with Dengfu, (unless dengfu changed it's name?) Never had a good experience with PayPal they screwed me big time. We have very strong consumer laws here in Australia, (PayPals job is to run interference with those laws so be mindful of that) You must have similar consumer laws there. If it's not fit for purpose then you would be entitled to your money back. I would be more inclined to pursue local consumer rights/laws before PayPal or at least know your rights before PayPal try to fob you off. Not sure about time frames but charge backs through your bank is another possibility. Anyway good luck with it all, hope it all works out for you.

+1 about paypal. I have definitively closed my account and i will never return to. They have performed to facilitate oversea buying, but now they have modificate rules to reduce refund. Now i will only bought to company who i trust. About bafang, true sometime it's difficult to solve an problem, they don't want to communicate with the finally buyer (understandable). But they have a lot of ameliorate thier polocy, they have open several local servicies in various country who help local customers. it seem one existing in spain ?

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

I am looking for some advice on my new DIY eMTB build. I completed the build yesterday on a Chinese carbon frame (from Joybikes) - They did have to re-send me a new frame as the first one was damaged slightly on the headset, It had gotten squashed in transit, I managed to fix it with my Dremel, but I wasn't prepared to accept it.. and they immediately sent me another with no hassles! So, I have ran into a problem that the pedal assist does not go atall, I think I got all the wiring correct, the controller lights up and all works fine.. but there is just no juice to the pedals! I have stripped it and re-checked the wiring.. but it all seems fine (and why would the controller all light up and work if it wasn't?) The only thing was the cable from the controller had a red&black spur off it that had 2 metal female ends on them.. I have no idea if they were to be inserted somewhere? so, this is what it could be? but I couldn't see anywhere these could be inserted.. not on the motor..I have the yellow battery one inserted and like I say, the controller comes on and is totally fine... I am putting up some photos... and hopefully someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong? This is my first eMTB build.... so any help is appreciated.

View attachment 115243 View attachment 115244

So.... I got the Motor back from Bafang, Poland this morning, I quickly re-assembled the bike.... and here are my findings... which I hope I can maybe get some help again............ I put it together, and then took it for a test ride... and again... nothing... but I did notice they had definitely opened up the motor.. that I could see... as I was about to give up on the test ride... I thought I sensed it give me a kick! like... the torque... I took it further... nothing... then I thought... (I dunno why) I unplugged the Magura MT5e brake sensor cable from the motor (red to yellow - I bought the expensive! adapters from Germany to save me filing off the inside of the red adapter!) low and behold... It jumped into life!! WAS AMAZING POWER!! So, then I fiddled about with it more... The motor won't work atall if I have the MT5hc cable (red) plugged into the Bafang (yellow) one.... but then I started to test it with the walking aid...as I could do this alone... If I depress the MT5hc levers slightly (both) it kicks in!!!! So, in effect, it's like it;s working in reverse!! as I should pull the lever and the motor cuts out... but this is opposite!!!! my only surmise is that they did something when they opened up the motor?? or has anyone else had this problem with MT5hc levers and Bafang M510??????? Loved the bike btw..... awesome!! but I really want the hc's to work correctly!! any ideas anyone??

 

[Karamba!]

It seems to me that the switches built-in on your Maguras are Normally Open (NO) and the motor controller is expecting Normally Closed (NC) switches. This means that the motor will deliver power for as long as the NC switches are closed (the levers are not pressed). As soon as the levers are pressed, the switches cut the circuit and the motor stops delivering power. Instead, your NO levers' switches cut the circuit when not pressed, so the motor does not deliver power until the circuit closes when you press the levers.
Perhaps you can contact Bafang, or somebody here like Neeko, to learn what the pins of the brake sensor at the controller are. I'm referrencing CNC's limit switches here, so take this with a grain of salt, although I'm pretty sure the exact same principles are at play. In that context, switches with 3 pins had the ability to be wired either in NO or NC. One is ground, the other is NC, and the other is NO. So, if you want the switch to behave as NC, you will wire the GND and NC pins to the controller.
So in your case, you would have to cut the existing cable somewhat close to the connector on your maguras to change the pin order of connector by bridging the right wires. Normally brake sensors are NC

I hope this all makes sense

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

It seems to me that the switches built-in on your Maguras are Normally Open (NO) and the motor controller is expecting Normally Closed (NC) switches. This means that the motor will deliver power for as long as the NC switches are closed (the levers are not pressed). As soon as the levers are pressed, the switches cut the circuit and the motor stops delivering power. Instead, your NO levers' switches cut the circuit when not pressed, so the motor does not deliver power until the circuit closes when you press the levers.
Perhaps you can contact Bafang, or somebody here like Neeko, to learn what the pins of the brake sensor at the controller are. I'm referrencing CNC's limit switches here, so take this with a grain of salt, although I'm pretty sure the exact same principles are at play. In that context, switches with 3 pins had the ability to be wired either in NO or NC. One is ground, the other is NC, and the other is NO. So, if you want the switch to behave as NC, you will wire the GND and NC pins to the controller.
So in your case, you would have to cut the existing cable somewhat close to the connector on your maguras to change the pin order of connector by bridging the right wires. Normally brake sensors are NC

I hope this all makes sense

Hi, thanks for replying… yeah, I’ve now found out that is the problem and I found a YouTube video on how to rectify it… but of a fiddly job… but will do it in morning… thanks again

 

[temon10]

BTW why U need brake sensor? Most of M510 not use brake sensor as most of other brands like Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha< Brose also don;t use it

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

BTW why U need brake sensor? Most of M510 not use brake sensor as most of other brands like Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha< Brose also don;t use it

well... I kinda agree with you now.. but seeing as I bought the MT5 higo levers... may aswell try and get them to do as they do...it's either I strip out the cables or try this easy fix to reverse them... so will go with the easy fix first.. and if I feck it up.. then i'll just pull all cables out....

 

[patdam]

Normally brake switches need to be open for motor functioning. You need only to stay the connectors unplugged

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

yeah... well.. I did try and do as the video said to reverse the switches to closed instead of open... but after doing one side (i thought really well) it didn't work...(tried it with other side unplugged and then did walk mode..... ) So.... I just cut the cables!! and ALL IS GOOD!! Now i can go out and test this bike on proper trail..... thanks to all

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

PS - I did change the chainring to a 44T, it came with a 32T but I have a 11/52 cassette on.... and I thought the motor was very powerful... and I'm a road cyclist in reality.. so fit as feck!! so I reckon the 44T is way better fit......seems to be great fun....gonna see how it handles the very rocky terrain here.....

 

[temon10]

PS - I did change the chainring to a 44T, it came with a 32T but I have a 11/52 cassette on.... and I thought the motor was very powerful... and I'm a road cyclist in reality.. so fit as feck!! so I reckon the 44T is way better fit......seems to be great fun....gonna see how it handles the very rocky terrain here.....

your motor will be harder work with 44T chainring. Most of M510 user using not more than 38T chainring.

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

your motor will be harder work with 44T chainring. Most of M510 user using not more than 38T chainring.

haha... I'm a road cycling (and MTB) guide... I ride up the Tramuntana mountain roads every day, of every year.. I can assure you... the 44T feels great for me...but point taken...the 32T did not feel right atall.... I had that on my ordinary MTB... which was fine... but not wen I have a motor....not need (for me) - cheers

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

BTW why U need brake sensor? Most of M510 not use brake sensor as most of other brands like Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha< Brose also don;t use it

Hi again, so I took your advice and I just cut the brake sensor cables off... and it works great.. but it can be a bit sketchy when your on a technical area and the motor takes a few to cut off..... is this normal? is this the same as other bikes without the breaking sensors? I mean, I'm already used to it.. but I sometimes get caught out when on a really tricky technical part..

 

[patdam]

If your motor still function few seconds after you have stop to turn the crank arms => you need to change the software of your controller (to rev 3.1-CS or 3.2)

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

If your motor still function few seconds after you have stop to turn the crank arms => you need to change the software of your controller (to rev 3.1-CS or 3.2)

is there a thread on how to do this?

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would just ask on this existing one to see if I can get an answer. My problem now (as you can see if you read back last few posts) I went ahead and just cut the brake sensor cables from my MT5 Higo levers (after unsuccessfully trying to switch the NO to NC as per a youtube video I found - which didn't sort problem for me) So, I decided just to cut the cables and now my problem is, the motor still runs for approx. 1-2 seconds after I brake..I find this ok if I'm in 1 or 2, but if I'm on a gnarly bit and in 4 or 5... well, It can be a wee bit dangerous to say the least.. Now, above, someone mentioned it would be a case of me changing software to correct this? I have also been told that most other motors do not have these brake sensors? (like I said, I'm mainly a roadie! totally new to e-bikes) My question is, will changing software definitely correct this? and where can I get this software? is there a step by step thread on this?? Any info is most welcome than you.
On another note, I have now had my first 4 decent off road rides on this eMTB, and I truly cannot believe the fun I've had on it! even with the braking issue....The tracks here on Mallorca are really rocky, and alot of technical stuff... and this thing just trashes it all... I had actually never been on an ebike until my first ride on this bike! I cannot believe what I have been missing.. I'm still a roadie first and foremost (it's my job!) but now I have something to make my life far more interesting here!! haha...LOVE IT! I have decided to change my display I got offered in part of the deal (240) to the new 245 as I cannot see the display atall on the 240 as it is always so sunny here!! It's not a great problem, but I also like the bluetooth element to the 245 so will upgrade to that. But I hope I can fix the brake sensor issue without buying new levers!!! Thanks again to all who have helped so far, much appreciated.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Most EMTB's do not have brake sensor cables.

Some of the cheaper bikes used to have them, some possibly still do, generally where they ran hub motors and didn't have a torque sensor in the crank, but a position sensor which would detect a revolution. Therefore there would often be considerable motor over run to accomodate for people with really slow cadences - or the motor would cut out all the time.

The brake sensor then tells the motor to stop when you brake.

Mid mount motors have torque sensors, so they know how hard you're pedalling and exactly when you stop.

Overrun is a common feature on most motors though and depending which mode you are in will often influence how many milliseconds overrun you get. Overrun is an intended feature, you use it to pop over a log/rock without having to pedal and therefore avoid a pedal strike. The Bosch CS Gen4 Race in Race mode has a considerably longer overrun than the normal version of the motor for this purpose.

1-2 seconds does sound really long though. A few Brose motors used to run on this long and it was a faulty torque sensor. I think @patdam was suggesting you can adjust this. Maybe have a search on the forum for the Besst tool. (Bafang configuration software).

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

Most EMTB's do not have brake sensor cables.

Some of the cheaper bikes used to have them, some possibly still do, generally where they ran hub motors and didn't have a torque sensor in the crank, but a position sensor which would detect a revolution. Therefore there would often be considerable motor over run to accomodate for people with really slow cadences - or the motor would cut out all the time.

The brake sensor then tells the motor to stop when you brake.

Mid mount motors have torque sensors, so they know how hard you're pedalling and exactly when you stop.

Overrun is a common feature on most motors though and depending which mode you are in will often influence how many milliseconds overrun you get. Overrun is an intended feature, you use it to pop over a log/rock without having to pedal and therefore avoid a pedal strike. The Bosch CS Gen4 Race in Race mode has a considerably longer overrun than the normal version of the motor for this purpose.

1-2 seconds does sound really long though. A few Brose motors used to run on this long and it was a faulty torque sensor. I think @patdam was suggesting you can adjust this. Maybe have a search on the forum for the Besst tool. (Bafang configuration software).

Thanks, I already have the Besst tool, and I have a bafang dealers log in account from my frame/motor supplier. I’m about to go ahead and plug this motor into my laptop and see what’s what with the settings. Like I said, I’m pretty much ok with the over run.. but it gets a fair bit gnarly when in mode 4 or 5.. I’m sure I can master this to be perfect.. I just wondered if there was a fix for this to shorten the gap…. Thanks

 

[Sunburntwily]

I like the over run. As I come into a gnarly corner and have to reset pedal stroke so as not to clip a rock or stump the bike just kicks on through and I'm off again, it's great. I'd think twice before you change it.

 

[Martin (Mallorca Guiding)]

So, it's not even a year since my DIY self build eMTB and things were going great... but all of a sudden when I was out on a ride my battery stopped, whilst still showing 82% on the controller! I stripped it down, checked all terminals etc etc.. but then I noticed the battery itself has a button on it with a little light window to check power..>I pressed this and nothing lit up! (lights up green when it has life!) I got this bike build from Joye Bikes, which was a it that had the frame and the motor and the battery. Customized Lithium battery, Customized Lithium battery direct from Changzhou Joyebikes Co., Ltd. in CN
If u have read my build threads, u can see I did have some teething problems but everything has been fine until now!
So, I got the eMTB home (bloody hard ride home with no battery!!) and I took the battery out and stuck it in the charger. I left it for a few mins then unplugged and did the pressing of the button thing on the battery again, and it lit up solid green!!! I put it back in the bike and switched on the controller and low and behold.. It showed 83% power left!! So, I took it out on another ride and this time it stopped at the start (after 5 mins) The battery was fully charged and it showed up as 100% on the controller until it stopped! I took battery out and again , the light would't come on when I depressed the button on battery to check! I took it back and totally stripped the bike down and cleaned all connectors etc etc.. I did everything!! I plugged the battery into the charger for a min. then removed and pressed the button on the battery and it lit up green again!! Put it back into bike and again, it all lit up again and showed 100% charge. So, everything was good again for 4 rides... all running perfect, then yesterday.. 1 hour into a ride, it did it again!! Same scenario, I removed battery, and no light came on when I depressed the button on the battery to check it....but it was showing up as 60% on the controller before it stopped! I'm thinking faulty battery from these guys at Joye Bikes!! I have notified them, but I had nothing but hassles from them when I first got his kit and the Bafang motor was faulty and had to be sent to Poland to be fixed etc.. and I have no idea if they shall send me a new battery.. as they are in China... But I did pay them by Paypal.. so I do have that to fall back on, as it is not even 1 year!! Has anyone else had a problem like this? It isn't the temrinals etc etc.. can only be the battery.. as I have checked everything else, and well, It has to be faulty as the green light doesn't light up... when it should! I left a link to JoyeBikes site to show u the type of battery it is... (48v 17.5) - any info or advice would bemost welcome...