Levo SL Gen 1 AXS Electronic Shifting on Levo SL or Any EMTB Really

[Butane]

All,

I just bought a 2021 Levo SL Comp Carbon and have taken it for a few rides. I've noticed that it is extremely difficult to downshift when going uphill (ya ya downshift before you hit the hill but what about when the hill changes grades mid climb?) without putting a lot of strain on the drivetrain. Even if I lessen my torque on the cranks during the shift, it still feels like the assist is putting a ton of stress on the chain and cassette. I have a feeling this means I'll be swapping chains and cassettes at a ridiculous rate because I seriously can't figure out how to shift without too much torque. I am thinking that an AXS shifter is a must on these bikes in order to maintain drivetrain longevity, because they perfectly time the shifts to put as little stress on the chain and cassette as possible. They just came out with the GX AXS upgrade which is identical to the X01 AXS system except it is made of steel instead of aluminum, which I'd prefer anyway because steel is more durable and I think that's better for the additional torque involved with E-Bikes.

What are your thoughts on this? Is AXS a must if you want your drivetrain to last any reasonable amount of time?

Thanks,
-Butane

 

[Gyre]

AXS isn't going to cure too much torque on the drivetrain during shifting. Shimano HG+ is more tolerant of torque than HG when set up right.

That said, if you're new to mountain biking, adjusting your torque when shifting is a skill to develop. Until you develop that skill, you may want to try lower assist levels at the start of a climb until you drop down into a comfortable gear range.

 

[Butane]

My dude I have been riding a long time, I think I made it pretty clear that even if I heavily reduce my torque on the cranks, the assist is still putting a massive amount of strain on the drive train. This isn't an issue of having the skill to reduce the torque on the drivetrain when shifting, I am competent at that. It's the fact that even when I reduce my torque, the motor is still adding extra torque to the point it sounds crunchy every time I downshift on a hill. Maybe actually read my post before responding next time.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

So you think an electric shifter will solve this?

pretty sure there isn’t a strain gauge in the system. It just shifts when told doesn’t it? so it could actually make your problem worse?

I know you say you been riding a while but it does sound like you haven’t got the basics right?

im fairly new to mtb / eMTB but you definitely have to feel the shift. Maybe cos I haven’t done a huge amount of normal bikes I’ve just got used to eMTB shifting?? ??‍

but what you are explaining in your posts that you want is like a quickshifter on a bike (motorbike) that kills ignition and seamlessly changes gear as it kills the load on box at that time.

pedalling uphill the load doesn’t stop unless you reduce pressure....

might be way off here but I didn’t think axs was that sophisticated

 

[Gyre]

My dude, I read your entire post just fine. Your post blamed the assist but your skill at actually managing the torque is an unknown. I manage to reduce the torque just fine for shifting and don't need to put the blame on the assist. In either case, if for some reason your assist is hyper aggressive and won't respond to your backing off, that's why I included the mention to ease up on your assist levels until you drop into a comfortable gear. Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time instead of responding to an effort to help with sarcasm.

 

[Butane]

Ok. Maybe you are not listening.
Good luck learning to change gear. My dude

Cool thanks for another post adding nothing to the discussion. I have explained that I do not have this issue on a regular MTB. It is easy to reduce torque on a regular MTB to make shifting smooth, it is near impossible even on the lowest assist setting to not get a grinding shift if you are going up hill and hit a grade change on my levo SL. Now if someone with actual experience who has ridden both an analogue and electronic drive train would like to add something to the discussion, that would be great.

 

[Pdoz]

Thanks for the post - you might have just made my rise / levo sl decision a bit easier.

Does the sl / mahle motor integrate with electric shifters and drop power for the change?

If not, does the mahle motor have a power pulse / cleaner shifting at the 6/12 like most other emtb motors?

WTF does " my dude" mean?

 

[Pdoz]

Ahhh....it only takes a bit of research...

" my dude" has something to do with good wattevers?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Cool thanks for another post adding nothing to the discussion. I have explained that I do not have this issue on a regular MTB. It is easy to reduce torque on a regular MTB to make shifting smooth, it is near impossible even on the lowest assist setting to not get a grinding shift if you are going up hill and hit a grade change on my levo SL. Now if someone with actual experience who has ridden both an analogue and electronic drive train would like to add something to the discussion, that would be great.

ok fella. Good luck learning to change gear!
I’ve figured it out with little experience

you’ve asked the internet but don’t like the response ???

Ps. Pretty sure electronic shift won’t solve your problem. But I’ll let someone else tell you this and you can dismiss them too. ???

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Does the sl / mahle motor integrate with electric shifters and drop power for the change?

If not, does the mahle motor have a power pulse / cleaner shifting at the 6/12 like most other emtb motors?

cool. This makes sense. Didn’t think they did that ??

 

[Gyre]

ok fella. Good luck learning to change gear!
I’ve figured it out with little experience

you’ve asked the internet but don’t like the response ???

Ps. Pretty sure electronic shift won’t solve your problem. But I’ll let someone else tell you this and you can dismiss them too. ???

If he's having this much trouble with a Levo SL, heaven forfend that he ever gets an e-bike with a real motor!

 

[Jimbo Vills]

If he's having this much trouble with a Levo SL, heaven forfend that he ever gets an e-bike with a real motor!

???

would snap the cranks on a FF real mans bike ?

 

[chrismechmaster]

I have electronic shifting on my two ebikes

full power Levo
Light weigh rise

and if anything I feel you have to be marginally more sympathetic when change gear

that’s only my view tho so I don’t think it would cure your problem

 

[Norange]

Have you checked hanger alignment? Does it index ok on the flat?

 

[Butane]

I have electronic shifting on my two ebikes

full power Levo
Light weigh rise

and if anything I feel you have to be marginally more sympathetic when change gear

that’s only my view tho so I don’t think it would cure your problem

Interesting and thanks for actually contributing to the discussion. So you are saying that in your experience the electronic systems aren't any easier on the drivetrain than a cable system?

 

[Butane]

Have you checked hanger alignment? Does it index ok on the flat?

It shifts fine on flat, it's really only moments where I am on a hill, and that hills grade increases so I have to drop another gear. Normally I would pedal hard for a second and then downshift while I let off torque on the cranks so that it shifts smooth. When I try that on my SL, when I let off on the torque it still feels like the motor is applying a lot of torque to the crank even though I'm not, and it make the shift crunchy.

 

[chrismechmaster]

Compared to the shimano xtr hg I had I could really put the power down / keep the power down with the gx asx it a lovely change but I feel I slightly lift off the power when changing

it’s hard to say if that just me or not but I would say he shimano xtr was the transmission that felt the smoothest when keeping loads of power down

the only slight issue with my above theory is I am
Now running a mix match drivetrain
SRAM gx mech
Shimano cassette and chain
So maybe this is why I feel is possibly just not quite as perfect as the xtr all shimano was

 

[chrismechmaster]

On the sl tho with the gx you would be running complete sram I guess ???
(My sl was all sram )

so possibly slightly better change than my mixed transmission

 

[Norange]

Maybe just timing? I haven't ridden an SL, but on my levo the power output continues for a bit, even if you stop pedalling. so you kinda have to ease off, then wait for the power to settle, then shift. Which is weird if you've spent a decade on normal bikes. I bloody wish i could answer the AXS question. But i've sprained an intercostal muscle, so fitting the GX kit is as far as i've got, and that feckin hurt

 

[Butane]

On the sl tho with the gx you would be running complete sram I guess ???
(My sl was all sram )

so possibly slightly better change than my mixed transmission

Ya I'd be keeping my SRAM GX Eagle cassette and just swapping out the deraillur and shifters with the GX AXS upgrade kit. So it would be full SRAM.

 

[Butane]

Maybe just timing? I haven't ridden an SL, but on my levo the power output continues for a bit, even if you stop pedalling. so you kinda have to ease off, then wait for the power to settle, then shift. Which is weird if you've spent a decade on normal bikes. I bloody wish i could answer the AXS question. But i've sprained an intercostal muscle, so fitting the GX kit is as far as i've got, and that feckin hurt

I'm honestly starting to think this is what is going on. Because it is only when I am on a hill that gets steeper. On a regular MTB you just pedal hard for a sec to gain enough extra speed so that you can shift and immediately let off the cranks so the shift is smooth and then reapply crank pressure. What appears to be happening on the SL is that it keeps applying torque from the motor even when I let off for a fraction of a second.

Maybe this isn't a problem for dumb and dumber above because they enter every hill in the lowest gear and never change gears on a grade, but I actually ride my bike and don't let it ride me so could be a difference in philosophy there LMAO.

EDIT: And I am coming from many years on a regular MTB. Probably why it feels so wrong to me.

 

[Norange]

Maybe. Because on a steeper hill on a normal bike, your instinct is to minimise the gap so you don't lose momentum. Reckon on the eeb you have to back off and just wait a fraction longer before shifting. And even though you do lose more momentum, you can recover due to the motor

 

[Butane]

Exactly, seems like I need to work around that extra little bit of torque the motor continues giving when you let off the cranks and just wait slightly longer to shift than I would on a regular MTB. Solid discussion and thanks for being helpful. Glad to see there are people on this forum willing to help instead of being arrogant snobs.

 

[Gyre]

Exactly, seems like I need to work around that extra little bit of torque the motor continues giving when you let off the cranks and just wait slightly longer to shift than I would on a regular MTB. Solid discussion and thanks for being helpful. Glad to see there are people on this forum willing to help instead of being arrogant snobs.

It helps if the person I'm trying to help isn't so quick to take offense and go on the attack. You've dished out the sarcasm plenty here, learn to take some gracefully in return. Even better than any of that, just give a post the benefit of the doubt before lashing out.

P.S. 30+ years of acoustic MTB experience here, several seasons as a shop mechanic.

 

[Pdoz]

It helps if the person I'm trying to help isn't so quick to take offense and go on the attack. You've dished out the sarcasm plenty here, learn to take some gracefully in return. Even better than any of that, just give a post the benefit of the doubt before lashing out.

P.S. 30+ years of acoustic MTB experience here, several seasons as a shop mechanic.

Gyre, can you give some insight for ME please - does the mahle motor have a typical emtb pulse that responds to shifting at 6/12 crank position like most other emtb's ?

Are you aware if it integrates with electric shifting like some other emtb's ? Ie drops power for the shift?

 

[Gyre]

Gyre, can you give some insight for ME please - does the mahle motor have a typical emtb pulse that responds to shifting at 6/12 crank position like most other emtb's ?

Are you aware if it integrates with electric shifting like some other emtb's ? Ie drops power for the shift?

I haven't heard of any current eMTB motors that cut power to aid shifting but I'm pretty new to the eMTB scene myself. It wouldn't make sense to cut the power unless you knew the shift was underway, so you're right to expect it would need integration between the motor and the shifter.

I could see Shimano doing this with DI2 and the EP8, so if the EP8 motor somehow has a provision for a DI2 input, then I'd suspect that just maybe it does such a cut.

I would be very surprised if this integration existed with AXS. AFAIK, you can't pair AXS to a Specialized head unit.

 

[RebornRider]

I would be very surprised if this integration existed with AXS. AFAIK, you can't pair AXS to a Specialized head unit.

Exactly! You're not going to get automotive style shifting (computer cuts power during shifts) by switching to AXS. The Spesh TCU doesn't know anything about shifting.

It's true that Spesh tunes the assistance so that the motor continues applying torque for a moment after rider input drops to zero. IMO, most times that's helpful. But it means the OP must learn a new timing pattern for uphill shifting. A bit more pedal grunt before the shift than you're used to, and a bit longer pause between backing off the pedal effort and clicking the shifter.

If it's one of those "emergency" downshifts, you're gonna get a grunch.

 

[Pdoz]

I haven't heard of any current eMTB motors that cut power to aid shifting but I'm pretty new to the eMTB scene myself. It wouldn't make sense to cut the power unless you knew the shift was underway, so you're right to expect it would need integration between the motor and the shifter.

I could see Shimano doing this with DI2 and the EP8, so if the EP8 motor somehow has a provision for a DI2 input, then I'd suspect that just maybe it does such a cut.

I would be very surprised if this integration existed with AXS. AFAIK, you can't pair AXS to a Specialized head unit.

Bosch cuts power when combined with shimano di2 shifters. You'd think shimano would catch up with the ep8 ..... but it appears they didn't. Weird.

It's true that Spesh tunes the assistance so that the motor continues applying torque for a moment after rider input drops to zero. IMO, most times that's helpful. But it means the OP must learn a new timing pattern for uphill shifting. A bit more pedal grunt before the shift than you're used to, and a bit longer pause between backing off the pedal effort and clicking the shifter.

If it's one of those "emergency" downshifts, you're gonna get a grunch.

So that takes me to the other part of my question - does the sl / mahle motor deliver power in a typical emtb pulse ( dropping assistance around the 6/12 crank position) . The orbea rise adverts give a nice graphical representation of this phenomena with the ep8 rs .

Ie, if you back off at about 4 / 10 and shift at 6/12 is this sufficient?

 

[RebornRider]

Ie, if you back off at about 4 / 10 and shift at 6/12 is this sufficient?

I've never seen torque vs. pedal position curves for either the Brose or the Mahle motors (I have a Brose). My technique is to totally stop pedal rotation (or slow it *way* down) for a heartbeat or 2 before clicking the shifter, then ease into the pedals before going back to full power and cadence. Most of the time I get smooth shifts as I step up to larger sprockets, but not always.

Note that I never race or time myself, and all of my really fast riding is downhill, so there's no penalty for slow shifting other than a bit of lost momentum.

 

[galaga187]

My dudes is this matter settled then? ?