Auto mode burns burns more battery that tour mode.

[Plummet]

Went for a 2 day session and rotovegas with a mate with a brand new (22) trek rail 9.9 750hw battery with eco,tour, emtb and boost mode.
I have pole voima 2 months (600km old) with newer smart system 750wh battery eco, auto, emtb, turbo modes.

We are both a similar weight. He is maybe 2kg lighter and the bike is 2kg lighter. So he has a small weight advantage,.

I have Auto mode detuned to 70nm but all other settings are stock.

We spent most of the time in blue/auto mode. At the end of the day he had 10-15% more battery left. When we were going up hills auto mode would keep applying more power to make the pedaling easier. I was breathing less hard to do the same hill.

My conclusion is that auto mode just heaps on more power and battery usage. Its not a more efficient setting at all. It doesn't back off and save more battery than it uses when it applies extra.

In all honesty it was a bit of a pain in the arse riding with 2 other riders who didn't have auto mode. As I would power off up a hill (unknowingly) and they would be flicking up modes to keep up. For a short ride who cares. But when you are spending 6-7 hours in the forest and wanting to optimize battery and time in the forest burning battery on a setting that is supposed to be more efficient is annoying.

What I am going to have to do is keep de-tuning the auto mode until it closer matches tour setting on other bosch bikes.

 

[Shark58]

But when you are spending 6-7 hours in the forest and wanting to optimize battery and time in the forest burning battery on a setting that is supposed to be more efficient is annoying.

Why do yo think that Auto mode saves battery? Auto dynamically varies support from Eco all the way up to Turbo based on external conditions like headwind or climbs. It tries to hold the speed you where going based on short term rolling average. Therefore Auto very often puts you into Turbo and that is anything else but battery saving.

If you want to save battery you need to use Eco (fixed low support at 60%) or Tour+ which will vary support from Eco to Turbo just like Auto, but based on rider input. For Tour+ to go up to Turbo you will need high rider power. Think of Tour+ as eMTB with more rider power needed. But even so Tour+ on average will use more battery than Eco.

Best battery efficiency is Off.

 

[Plummet]

Why do yo think that Auto mode saves battery? Auto dynamically varies support from Eco all the way up to Turbo based on external conditions like headwind or climbs. It tries to hold the speed you where going based on short term rolling average. Therefore Auto very often puts you into Turbo and that is anything else but battery saving.

If you want to save battery you need to use Eco (fixed low support at 60%) or Tour+ which will vary support from Eco to Turbo just like Auto, but based on rider input. For Tour+ to go up to Turbo you will need high rider power. Think of Tour+ as eMTB with more rider power needed. But even so Tour+ on average will use more battery than Eco.

Best battery efficiency is Off.

I dont have tour setting. We wanted to go faster than eco but not as fast as emtb. For be that's the auto mode.

For riding with mates that didnt have auto mode it was a pain. I would burn more battery and get more assistance and or they would have to flick up a setting.

It effectively means I'm missing an economic setting that's a bit faster than Eco. I'll have to de tune it more to see if I can match my mates tour settings closer.

 

[Bummers]

You can get auto taken off and tour+ put on instead.

 

[ilostmypassword]

Went for a 2 day session and rotovegas with a mate with a brand new (22) trek rail 9.9 750hw battery with eco,tour, emtb and boost mode.
I have pole voima 2 months (600km old) with newer smart system 750wh battery eco, auto, emtb, turbo modes.

We are both a similar weight. He is maybe 2kg lighter and the bike is 2kg lighter. So he has a small weight advantage,.

I have Auto mode detuned to 70nm but all other settings are stock.

We spent most of the time in blue/auto mode. At the end of the day he had 10-15% more battery left. When we were going up hills auto mode would keep applying more power to make the pedaling easier. I was breathing less hard to do the same hill.

My conclusion is that auto mode just heaps on more power and battery usage. Its not a more efficient setting at all. It doesn't back off and save more battery than it uses when it applies extra.

In all honesty it was a bit of a pain in the arse riding with 2 other riders who didn't have auto mode. As I would power off up a hill (unknowingly) and they would be flicking up modes to keep up. For a short ride who cares. But when you are spending 6-7 hours in the forest and wanting to optimize battery and time in the forest burning battery on a setting that is supposed to be more efficient is annoying.

What I am going to have to do is keep de-tuning the auto mode until it closer matches tour setting on other bosch bikes.

I think it's pretty standard in this mode. I know Giant Ebikes do the same.

 

[Shark58]

It effectively means I'm missing an economic setting that's a bit faster than Eco. I'll have to de tune it more to see if I can match my mates tour settings closer.

With Eco, Auto, eMTB and Turbo you can either modify Auto or get rid of Auto altogether and have your dealer install the original Tour (static support at 140%) or Tour+ which I explained further up. You could also have the dealer change Turbo for something else in case you don’t use that mode.

To save some battery with Auto mode I would recommend to lower the assistance level, not the max torque. Set assistance to the lowest level (-5) and see what happens. As the original support in Auto mode moves between 60% and 340%, setting assistance to -5 should result in support ranging from 30% to 170%. Each point on the 0 to -5 scale will lower support by 10% of the original value.

This is also true for the plus side of the scale from 0 to +5 with the exception that you can never go above the technical limit of the Bosch CX motor, which ist 340%.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I have mine as

Tour+
Auto
EMTB
Turbo

Can tune Tour+ to your liking to get a ton of range if you like.

I do like to use Auto on occasions to blast up boring fire road climbs but it can burn a bit of battery.

 

[Plummet]

That's good info. Thanks team.

I'll try detuning auto and uptuning eco and see how that works.

 

[JP-NZ]

Went for a 2 day session and rotovegas with a mate with a brand new (22) trek rail 9.9 750hw battery with eco,tour, emtb and boost mode.
I have pole voima 2 months (600km old) with newer smart system 750wh battery eco, auto, emtb, turbo modes.

Just to be technically clear, the Voima is not a newer smart system. The two systems on those bikes are exactly the same. Pole loaded the auto option rather than tour+. Trek uses Tour+ rather than Auto.

As someone mentioned previously, any Bosch dealer in NZ can swap these over if you want Tour+

If you were riding with him again, its just as easy for him to uptune his Tour+ to get closer to your auto too

 

[Plummet]

Just to be technically clear, the Voima is not a newer smart system. The two systems on those bikes are exactly the same. Pole loaded the auto option rather than tour+. Trek uses Tour+ rather than Auto.

As someone mentioned previously, any Bosch dealer in NZ can swap these over if you want Tour+

If you were riding with him again, its just as easy for him to uptune his Tour+ to get closer to your auto too

Interesting.

I guess is not generally a problem until you are doing a full day at the bike park and trying to match each others battery life.

I'll fluff around with existing settings and see if I can get a close mode in the first instance. Maybe cranked up Eco will do it?

 

[JP-NZ]

Interesting.

I guess is not generally a problem until you are doing a full day at the bike park and trying to match each others battery life.

I'll fluff around with existing settings and see if I can get a close mode in the first instance. Maybe cranked up Eco will do it?

I think you could modify the Eco to get pretty close to Tour+.

I had my Tour+ set at -2 assistance and my Eco at +3 assistance and the range estimation was almost identical. Can't say that was gospel though as I never rode fully in either mode to test distance.

 

[Plummet]

I think you could modify the Eco to get pretty close to Tour+.

I had my Tour+ set at -2 assistance and my Eco at +3 assistance and the range estimation was almost identical. Can't say that was gospel though as I never rode fully in either mode to test distance.

Good idea. I'll check range calcs when we do a comparison.

 

[Bummers]

Just both use emtb or turbo

 

[Plummet]

Just both use emtb or turbo

Wouldnt have lasted long enough. Riding and shuttling for 6 hours.

 

[Shark58]

I think you could modify the Eco to get pretty close to Tour+.

I had my Tour+ set at -2 assistance and my Eco at +3 assistance and the range estimation was almost identical.

Eco and Tour+ can never get pretty close. The first is a static mode with support fixed at 60% rider input. The second is a dynamic mode with support moving from 60% all the way up to 340% based on how much power the rider delivers.

Setting Eco to +3 will give you a fixed support of 78% (60% plus 3 times 6%).
Setting Tour+ to -2 will give you a dynamic range from 48% to 272%. As soon as you apply some power you will get much more support than 78% and of course use more battery.

Forget the range estimate, that is more like a guesstimate.

 

[Hiltix]

The auto mode also made no sense to me and is a power guzzler. When I need power, eMTB and Race are enough for me. I had the auto mode replaced with the Tour mode. Now the whole thing makes much more sense to me.

 

[Plummet]

The auto mode also made no sense to me and is a power guzzler. When I need power, eMTB and Race are enough for me. I had the auto mode replaced with the Tour mode. Now the whole thing makes much more sense to me.

Yeah, I'm leaning to that too.

 

[Arminius]

Hi,
I played with the tuning via App last week. After reducing in Auto guesstimated range in Auto was higher than in standard tuned Tour+.
By this Auto lost its „flying“ dynamics but seemed to me still more supporting than Tour+.

 

[Shark58]

By this Auto lost its „flying“ dynamics but seemed to me still more supporting than Tour+.

What did you change?

 

[Arminius]

I have not been playing with the modes before and not much experience with it.

Latest Bosch SW update of August 2023 - Drive Unit 8.16.0; Battery 8.5.5 - Battery 100%, just note that my last „heavier“ tour or the update before that tour must have impacted range guesstimation as it was usually around 65-70km and I did not reset data.

Unfortunately I did not find in the app the switch for language. Modification as shown below on Auto only, all others standard setting:

 

[emtbeast]

Went for a 2 day session and rotovegas with a mate with a brand new (22) trek rail 9.9 750hw battery with eco,tour, emtb and boost mode.
I have pole voima 2 months (600km old) with newer smart system 750wh battery eco, auto, emtb, turbo modes.

We are both a similar weight. He is maybe 2kg lighter and the bike is 2kg lighter. So he has a small weight advantage,.

I have Auto mode detuned to 70nm but all other settings are stock.

We spent most of the time in blue/auto mode. At the end of the day he had 10-15% more battery left. When we were going up hills auto mode would keep applying more power to make the pedaling easier. I was breathing less hard to do the same hill.

My conclusion is that auto mode just heaps on more power and battery usage. Its not a more efficient setting at all. It doesn't back off and save more battery than it uses when it applies extra.

In all honesty it was a bit of a pain in the arse riding with 2 other riders who didn't have auto mode. As I would power off up a hill (unknowingly) and they would be flicking up modes to keep up. For a short ride who cares. But when you are spending 6-7 hours in the forest and wanting to optimize battery and time in the forest burning battery on a setting that is supposed to be more efficient is annoying.

What I am going to have to do is keep de-tuning the auto mode until it closer matches tour setting on other bosch bikes.

Auto mode will want to keep you at your current pace no matter the terrain and will so automatically adapt the power output of the motor to your pace between Eco and Turbo.

Emtb mode on the other side doesn't care about your pace, it cares about your pedal pressure(pedal torque x cadence = power) and so it adapts the power output of the motor to the pedal pressure between Tour and Turbo.

This explanation alone would have a logical conclusion that the Auto mode on an mostly uphill ride will be less efficient, where as in a city environment situation or a Tour XC type situation it would probably be a different story.

 

[Nomad1]

Went for a 2 day session and rotovegas with a mate with a brand new (22) trek rail 9.9 750hw battery with eco,tour, emtb and boost mode.
I have pole voima 2 months (600km old) with newer smart system 750wh battery eco, auto, emtb, turbo modes.

We are both a similar weight. He is maybe 2kg lighter and the bike is 2kg lighter. So he has a small weight advantage,.

I have Auto mode detuned to 70nm but all other settings are stock.

We spent most of the time in blue/auto mode. At the end of the day he had 10-15% more battery left. When we were going up hills auto mode would keep applying more power to make the pedaling easier. I was breathing less hard to do the same hill.

My conclusion is that auto mode just heaps on more power and battery usage. Its not a more efficient setting at all. It doesn't back off and save more battery than it uses when it applies extra.

In all honesty it was a bit of a pain in the arse riding with 2 other riders who didn't have auto mode. As I would power off up a hill (unknowingly) and they would be flicking up modes to keep up. For a short ride who cares. But when you are spending 6-7 hours in the forest and wanting to optimize battery and time in the forest burning battery on a setting that is supposed to be more efficient is annoying.

What I am going to have to do is keep de-tuning the auto mode until it closer matches tour setting on other bosch bikes.

first off each rider is different and the bikes are 2. So it's really about figuring out battery life for each! Which is more than just tuning modes it has to do with how you ride and things like tires, gears and much more

 

[Shark58]

Emtb mode on the other side doesn't care about your pace, it cares about you cadence and so it adapts the power output of the motor to your cadence between Tour and Turbo.

eMTB mode adapts based on rider power, not cadence.
The same is true for Tour+.

The brand new Sprint mode is the only mode that is based on rider cadence.

 

[emtbeast]

eMTB mode adapts based on rider power, not cadence.
The same is true for Tour+.

Well, we are both wrong or partially correct...my mistake, will be editing my post. You are correct on the Sprint mode though.

So:

Power = Cadence x Torque

It is actually the pedal presure the emtb mode is based on, that is measured by a torque sensor. So higher the torque lower the cadence or the other way around.

 

[JP-NZ]

I have not been playing with the modes before and not much experience with it.

Latest Bosch SW update of August 2023 - Drive Unit 8.16.0; Battery 8.5.5 - Battery 100%, just note that my last „heavier“ tour or the update before that tour must have impacted range guesstimation as it was usually around 65-70km and I did not reset data.

As someone mentioned previously I wouldn't take much notice of the range "guesstimate" too many factors

 

[Arminius]

To a certain extent you may be right but to see the (calculated) effect of the tweak on the battery consumption is to a certain extent some kind of indicator for finding a preferred setup of the mainly used riding mode(s)?

In fact the above shown 51km ECO range at 100% had still been 40km ECO range after 28km tour in Tour+ & Auto. Well at 65% remaining capacity.
Yes, its a guesstimator or less for planning your ride.

My main mode was Tour+ and Auto was to feeling overpowered. Now with reduced support in Auto it is fine for me and seems to be using less battery capacity than Tour+ in standard setup.

Or am I wrong?