At Least ****** Has the Tools I Need

[slomtbr]

2021 Rail 7 after 20 miles.
I checked the torque of every other fastener…

 

[GrahamPaul]

I'm a bit confused there. Do you normally check the torque on fasteners by undoing them? The Bosch spider locknut ring is a reverse (left hand) thread, so you tested it by undoing it.

It's only torqued to 25Nm against a rubber O-ring, so it's easy to undo (mine are Locktited in place).

 

[slomtbr]

I wasn't checking it; it came loose on the second ride.
Now come the tools, safety wire and the fix.

 

[1981Miked]

Mine did the same after a few rides, i just tightened it up and carried on enjoying the bike. No issues since and I check it regularly.

 

[Rosemount]

Yes several reports of Trek chain rings coming lose .
Some caused damage to the frames . A stitch in time , I`d say .

 

[slomtbr]

25-30 Nm is stamped on my lockring, (2021 Rail 7)

 

[slomtbr]

Corrected: I had everything but the 36mm crow foot to go on the Park BBT-18 (it's on order), so I used about 2 US gallons of water pulling down on a wrench 1 foot from the spindle

 

[KenX]

Ah, 4g/ft

 

[GrahamPaul]

Ah, 4g/ft

Beware! That's 4 US foot gallons... which is only 75% of the value of the 4 Imperial foot gallons used in most other parts of the world! ?

 

[KennyB]

So 30ftlbs. Not sure what a g/ft is.

 

[GrahamPaul]

So 30ftlbs. Not sure what a g/ft is.

32 ft lbs, which gives a torque of 44Nm. Which is around 50% above the maximum quoted torque. I understand that this directly tightens the motor bearings, which is why Bosch quote a low maximum value...

 

[KennyB]

Imperial gallon weighs 10lbs, by your figures 4 US gallons weigh 30lbs. So 30 ftlbs

 

[slomtbr]

32 ft lbs, which gives a torque of 44Nm. Which is around 50% above the maximum quoted torque. I understand that this directly tightens the motor bearings, which is why Bosch quote a low maximum value...

Thank you - I did the conversion backward - more work tonight. I'm glad I didn't ride it.

 

[slomtbr]

Imperial gallon weighs 10lbs, by your figures 4 US gallons weigh 30lbs. So 30 ftlbs

Corrected the method to using 2 US gallons.

 

[slomtbr]

Imperial gallon weighs 10lbs, by your figures 4 US gallons weigh 30lbs. So 30 ftlbs

US gallon weighs 8.3lb., so I corrected my work using 2 US gallons for about 16.6 ft-lb.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Thank you - I did the conversion backward - more work tonight. I'm glad I didn't ride it.

Is this the right time to bring up the Mars Lander..?

 

[KennyB]

Is this the right time to bring up the Mars Lander..?

There's never a bad time.?

 

[KennyB]

Not sure what a g/ft is.

Got it, ignoring the mixing of metric and imperial g is grams. And it is a quality measurement for Bratwurst.?

 

[Akulakvg]

Corrected: I had everything but the 36mm crow foot to go on the Park BBT-18 (it's on order), so I used about 2 US gallons of water pulling down on a wrench 1 foot from the spindle

View attachment 62017

Safety wire, old school moto, nice bullet proof fix

 

[BeBiker]

In other applications, I saw this lock washer to secure a toothed lock ring.

Could this be a solution ?

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Is this a Trek specific problem with its lockring loosening over time? On both my bosch cx powered bikes, I have not experienced this. Although I did paint a small marker (white line) across lockring nut and spider to detect any loosening. Checking before each ride. Didn't notice anything yet.

 

[Paulquattro]

Is this a Trek specific problem with its lockring loosening over time? On both my bosch cx powered bikes, I have not experienced this. Although I did paint a small marker (white line) across lockring nut and spider to detect any loosening. Checking before each ride. Didn't notice anything yet.

Hi
No its Bosch specific
Im on my 3rd bike with the motor and just throw away the o rings and loctite the nut
3k in and no loose lock nut

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Good to know.

 

[Expidia]

Is this a Trek specific problem with its lockring loosening over time? On both my bosch cx powered bikes, I have not experienced this. Although I did paint a small marker (white line) across lockring nut and spider to detect any loosening. Checking before each ride. Didn't notice anything yet.

Great idea on the marker. I would have never thought of doing that.

 

[Stihldog]

Hi
No its Bosch specific
Im on my 3rd bike with the motor and just throw away the o rings and loctite the nut
3k in and no loose lock nut

Yeah, I always wondered about that o ring? Do you remember if it was brass, plastic or rubber?

I replaced the original chainring with an ethirteen 34t. However on the back of the new ethirteen chainring an area extends out seemingly to replace a metal o ring. If I left the metal o ring in place the new ethirteen chainring would extend too far out and chain alignment would be wrong.

So I made a decision to reassemble everything without the metal o ring. I could have used blue lock tight on the castle nut but if needed. I torqued the nut to spec and I’ve had no loosening issues in the past year.
I had no reassemble manual for the ethirteen chainring, but without the original o ring(metal/brass ?) the chain alignment and castle nut fit was perfect.

Note how the new ethirteen chainring protrudes slightly on the backside. (I keep a spare).

Also pictured are two types of castle nut sockets. One works fine with a 1/2” torque wrench and the other needs an adjustable wrench or a specific sized socket or crow-foot. However, most of my maintenance/work is done while the bike is in the work stand and since the bike wobbles around the castle nut socket can slip off. Not to big a deal …but?

My point is. I’ve once seen a picture of a castle nut socket that has an alignment bolt which secures and holds the socket in place. But I can’t find it again, and no one knows what I’m talking about. Any ideas?

Anyways, a little blue lock tight around the threads of this nut won’t hurt …but fortunately I haven’t needed any.

 

[Paulquattro]

Yeah, I always wondered about that o ring? Do you remember if it was brass, plastic or rubber?

I replaced the original chainring with an ethirteen 34t. However on the back of the new ethirteen chainring an area extends out seemingly to replace a metal o ring. If I left the metal o ring in place the new ethirteen chainring would extend too far out and chain alignment would be wrong.

So I made a decision to reassemble everything without the metal o ring. I could have used blue lock tight on the castle nut but if needed. I torqued the nut to spec and I’ve had no loosening issues in the past year.
I had no reassemble manual for the ethirteen chainring, but without the original o ring(metal/brass ?) the chain alignment and castle nut fit was perfect.
View attachment 112518
Note how the new ethirteen chainring protrudes slightly on the backside. (I keep a spare).

Also pictured are two types of castle nut sockets. One works fine with a 1/2” torque wrench and the other needs an adjustable wrench or a specific sized socket or crow-foot. However, most of my maintenance/work is done while the bike is in the work stand and since the bike wobbles around the castle nut socket can slip off. Not to big a deal …but?

My point is. I’ve once seen a picture of a castle nut socket that has an alignment bolt which secures and holds the socket in place. But I can’t find it again, and no one knows what I’m talking about. Any ideas?

Anyways, a little blue lock tight around the threads of this nut won’t hurt …but fortunately I haven’t needed any.

The O, ring was rubber on mine
I have a direct mount sprocket as well and use nothing behind it just directly mounted to the motor with the nut.

 

[Paulquattro]

Great idea on the marker. I would have never thought of doing that.

I do this with all the bolts on my bike you can see instantly if any have moved then

 

[Stihldog]

The O, ring was rubber on mine
I have a direct mount sprocket as well and use nothing behind it just directly mounted to the motor with the nut.

Ok, now I remember. The o ring on mine was more like a metal spacer. With the new ethirteen chainring the metal o ring wasn’t needed or possible for correct alignment. There was however a blue rubber o ring which I left in place.
The entire assembly seemed kinda strange to me but it’s been working just fine for a long time. In the pic you can see two plastic o rings (very thin) that I didn’t install. Maybe these needed to go between the blue rubber o ring and new ethirteen chainring. Hmmm . I might have screwed up.…but the nut doesn’t come loose.

 

[Paulquattro]

Ok, now I remember. The o ring on mine was more like a metal spacer. With the new ethirteen chainring the metal o ring wasn’t needed or possible for correct alignment. There was however a blue rubber o ring which I left in place.
The entire assembly seemed kinda strange to me but it’s been working just fine for a long time. In the pic you can see two plastic o rings (very thin) that I didn’t install. Maybe these needed to go between the blue rubber o ring and new ethirteen chainring. Hmmm . I might have screwed up.…but the nut doesn’t come loose.

Don't fix it what isn't broke , as the saying goes

 

[Ark]

Is this a Trek specific problem with its lockring loosening over time? On both my bosch cx powered bikes, I have not experienced this

It's a well known issue on rails, as is the bikes coming with a rear derailleur bolt not torqued to spec and the deraileur whacking into the frames after a few rides, destoying the frame if it was a carbon one.
I was considering a rail7 but everything I read about them put me off them, I ended up going with a Whyte E-160s 29er instead and I've done 185 miles with no lockring issues, no Bosch issues at all and everything working as intended thus far.

If you buy a rail it seem sit's mandatory to buy the Bosch gen 4 lockring tool a crank extractor and a torque wrench, although everyone probably has a torque wrench anyway.