Are pedal MTBs better at really rocky terrain?

[bikechiq]

I am in Hall Ranch, near Lyons Colorado and I saw some one there the other day literally destroy the rock Garden on a pedal mountain bike. She literally Was just climbing up that shit like nothing.

Me on the other hand, I had to get off the mountain bike and use the walk assist mode for most of the rocky portion. I am by no means a weak rider, I'm actually a really strong rider (but a beginner mountain biker) And I wonder if my inability to go through that rocky portion has something to do with the heavier electric mountain bike versus a really light pedal bike, or if its just my beginner mountain biking skills.

something i noticed was that I couldnt even get up some of those rocks because the pedals would have hit the rock. and then I started wondering if she was bunny hopping over those rocks to avoid the pedals? she was going over it like a monster truck.

Do pedal MTBs have higher clearance?

I got a chance to ask how she was doing that and she said "Well your bike is way heavier than mine. Try using your hips more".

and thats all she said.

 

[Waynemarlow]

A bad workman blames his tools , certainly for me an extra 500W's of boost when you need it just sooooo much makes climbs up rocky shutes and the likes a breeze.

Mind you have a look at analogue bike trials.

 

[R120]

Technique is king, doesn't matter what you steed is, or indeed how fit you are within reason.

 

[R120]

Masterclass here

 

[routrax]

So, if I've translated this correctly, a woman on a non assisted bike went up terrain that you couldn't ride on an assisted bike and you are asking if riding a bike without assistance is easier?

 

[bikechiq]

So, if I've translated this correctly, a woman on a non assisted bike went up terrain that you couldn't ride on an assisted bike and you are asking if riding a bike without assistance is easier?

That's correct! Some of those rocks were impossible to get over without my pedal hitting the rock. And she was just going over it like a monster truck. And I wonder if she was bunny hopping to get that clearance, or if pedal MTBs have higher clearance.


I actually got a chance to ask how she was doing that and she said "Well your bike is way heavier than mine. Try using your hips more".

and thats all she said.

 

[JimBo]

That's correct! Some of those rocks were impossible to get over without my pedal hitting the rock. And she was just going over it like a monster truck. And I wonder if she was bunny hopping to get that clearance, or if pedal MTBs have higher clearance.


I actually got a chance to ask how she was doing that and she said "Well your bike is way heavier than mine. Try using your hips more".

and thats all she said.

You might either need shorter crankarms or more air in your suspension... or both!

 

[R120]

Reminds me a bit of when I was doing laps one of my favourite trails in the Surrey Hills, was a cold autumnal day with no one else really about, apart form one other guy - now I am not the best rider but I think I have this trail pretty licked, must have ridden it hundreds of times and its not long enough for anyone to really gap someone, but this other dude was just slaying it - he would loose me within 2 turns and I just couldn't figure out how the feck he was so much faster as he looked effortless.

Got chatting to him at the top of the trail, turned out to be Bernard Kerr!

Maybe you bumped into Jill Kitner!

 

[The Hodge]

As you have said you are new to mountain biking my guess would be experience , technique & maybe fitness ..

 

[R120]

On a serious note on a proper technical climb an EMTB doesn't make a jot of difference IMO, and EMTB's take a lot more upper body strength to manoeuvre too.

Learning to climb technical stuff is really all about body and bike placement, knowing how to ratchet the cranks if necessary, and plotting a line and going for it, and syncing that all together whilst maintaining momentum. It takes years of practice to become goat like up the trails, and it really is the skills that pay the bills, not the bike.

For me personally doing any sort of technical climbing is better done in a lower power mode too, as you have more control.

This vid from Yoann Barelli, where he rides one of the gnarliest trails in BC the wrong way is pretty insightful into what it takes.

 

[bikechiq]

On a serious note on a proper technical climb an EMTB doesn't make a jot of difference IMO, and EMTB's take a lot more upper body strength to manoeuvre too.

Learning to climb technical stuff is really all about body and bike placement, knowing how to ratchet the cranks if necessary, and plotting a line and going for it, and syncing that all together whilst maintaining momentum. It takes years of practice to become goat like up the trails, and it really is the skills that pay the bills, not the bike.

For me personally doing any sort of technical climbing is better done in a lower power mode too, as you have more control.

This vid from Yoann Barelli, where he rides one of the gnarliest trails in BC the wrong way is pretty insightful into what it takes.

But this guy is bunny hopping rocks, I don't see how its possible to bunny hop a 50lb e-bike unless you're super strong

 

[R120]

Well to be blunt bunny hoping is one of the essential core skills of riding an MTB, and again a skill where technique can overcome bike weight.

Its a skill you are going to need if you want to progress, along with manualing/getting the front wheel up - you dont need to do either amazingly, but they are the building blocks of a lot of other skills.

Kyle Warner and his Mrs April's channel is a really good resource for learning and getting some ideas of basic skills.

https://www.youtube.com/c/KyleAprilRideMtb/featured

Modern mountain bikes, motorised or not, are pretty amazing and capable, so really its about learning how to make the bike work for you, and get it doing what its designed to do - the better you get, and the more techniques you learn, the easier it all becomes.

 

[Marley]

She was a more seasoned rider, experienced and was looking ahead picking her lines.

I have a 21# Carbon Scalpel and been XC riding for 30 years and my Trek Rail with assistance blows it away climbing any terrain.

Bottom bracket height certainly plays a roll ,as does crank positioning.
Learn to use a higher gear in the gnarly for fewer pedal revolutions and less impact on crank arms.

 

[Gary]

But this guy is bunny hopping rocks, I don't see how its possible to bunny hop a 50lb e-bike unless you're super strong

Git strong den

 

[Sully151]

When I used to rock climb, we saw this duo just dance up the rock. It was smooth, fast, and graceful. My girlfriend at the time looked at me said “there are climbers and there are people who climb rocks. Those guys are climbers.” That is one of the few things from that three year shit show of a relationship that stuck.

There are cyclists and then there are people who ride bikes. She was a cyclist.

 

[Rosemount]

Technique and lots of practice .
Here`s some good info .

Richie says lift and shift .

 

[#lazy]

You might either need shorter crankarms or more air in your suspension... or both!

And more practice

 

[memtb]

was she lightweight and superfit? Were you less so. bigger people climb worse. The EMTB can only do so much compensation.
Plus the skill thing.

 

[Hamina]

Did you doublecheck that your bike was on?

 

[B1rdie]

Climbing with the ebike is easyer than a bike on every situation but those trials courses.
Timing the pedal strokes and body pisition is crucial.
I like climbing and after learning a few skills that are only good for ebikes, like assistance lag and even using the brakes to control traction on climbs, am now able to pedal through features I had always deemed impossible on a pedal bike.

 

[routrax]

Reminds me a bit of when I was doing laps one of my favourite trails in the Surrey Hills, was a cold autumnal day with no one else really about, apart form one other guy - now I am not the best rider but I think I have this trail pretty licked, must have ridden it hundreds of times and its not long enough for anyone to really gap someone, but this other dude was just slaying it - he would loose me within 2 turns and I just couldn't figure out how the feck he was so much faster as he looked effortless.

Got chatting to him at the top of the trail, turned out to be Bernard Kerr!

Maybe you bumped into Jill Kitner!

I used to be massively into bouldering a few years ago, I was far from being good, V4/5 on a good day and used to train at Harrowall in NW London. One evening I was at the gym Alex Puccio (one of the best female climbers in the world) was there. I think it's not until you see an elite athlete on terrain you really know well that you can see how big the gap is between a pro and hobbyist.

 

[R120]

Unfortunately I have been schooled by pros more times that I care to remember in my favourite pass times - in a previous life I spent a couple of day skiing with Candid Thovex - its a sad day when aged 21 you realise you have reached the pinnacle of your abilities and it unlikely you will progress further! Flip side was it made me also realise that all that mattered was that I was having fun, didn't matter how good or bad I was in relation to others.

On an MTB its enormously satisfying to progress, even if that means cleaning a climb or feature in the mot ungraceful way compared to others!

 

[Jackware]

I used to be massively into bouldering a few years ago, I was far from being good, V4/5 on a good day and used to train at Harrowall in NW London. One evening I was at the gym Alex Puccio (one of the best female climbers in the world) was there. I think it's not until you see an elite athlete on terrain you really know well that you can see how big the gap is between a pro and hobbyist.

And I bet there are climbing forums where people ask about upgrading their slipper's rubber and arguing about the best chalk to use.

 

[Zimmerframe]

upgrading their slipper's rubber and arguing about the best chalk to use.

Probably the same on teachers forums too..

 

[Jackware]

Probably the same on teachers forums too..

Ok, you win 'best reply of the day'

 

[billwarwick]

Some people can just do stuff . You can practice forever, and still not get to that level. It’s a joy to watch someone on top of their game, whatever that may be. Back in the day, I used to sometimes work with a bricklayer who was close to retirement and had been laying bricks all his life. Now and again he would point out brickwork that had been done by someone else and say ‘ I wish I could lay bricks like that’ . He wasn’t taking the piss, just accepting that there was another level that he couldn’t get to .

 

[steve_sordy]

Some people can just do stuff . You can practice forever, and still not get to that level. It’s a joy to watch someone on top of their game, whatever that may be. Back in the day, I used to sometimes work with a bricklayer who was close to retirement and had been laying bricks all his life. Now and again he would point out brickwork that had been done by someone else and say ‘ I wish I could lay bricks like that’ . He wasn’t taking the piss, just accepting that there was another level that he couldn’t get to .

That's me! There is stuff that I just cannot do on a bike. I had a bike as a kid for a few years, but we just rode to places. The height of skill was to ride without hands. A long bike-free interregnum followed. Then I get to my 40's after a long illness and I'm just glad to be out on a bike. I took up mtb at the grand old age of 57 and took at least one skills course every year until I realised that sadly I was no longer improving. I was on a plateau, now I'm struggling to stay there without descending down the other side!! I'm on the edge, I can feel it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

now I'm struggling to stay there without descending down the other side!! I'm on the edge, I can feel it.

I think that means you're just a downhill rider now !

 

[Gary]

I had a bike as a kid for a few years, but we just rode to places. The height of skill was to ride without hands.

Then I get to my 40's after a long illness and I'm just glad to be out on a bike. I took up mtb at the grand old age of 57 and took at least one skills course every year until I realised that sadly I was no longer improving. I was on a plateau, now I'm struggling to stay there without descending down the other side!! I'm on the edge, I can feel it.

from everything I've read you say on here. It sounds very much like you're still in the mindset (god I hate that word) you were in as a kid. and still cycling your bike places rather than riding the bike.
what I mean by this is there are some riders who I'd call "cyclists" and some I'd call "riders". The "cyclist" rides a bike primarily for fitness/wellbeing/transport and to go/get places and complete loops etc. Whereas for a "rider" it's primarily because they love handling a bike. Give the first a bike and they will pedal it (usually seated). Give the second a bike and they'll instantly stand, roll, balance, weight and control that bike feeling it out for it's handling traits and the first thing they'll probably do is pop a wheel, hop or corner it.
Both would probably consider riding a bike to be fun. But the "rider" sees fun at a whole different level.
I put myself in the second camp my whole life. I physically can't get on a bike and not pop the front wheel, trackstand or pre-load the tyres. Even my roadbilkes or some old ladies commuter bike I've just serviced and need to test ride.
Recreational cyclists also tend to "dress the part" for every ride. Whereas I rarely wear cycling clothing at all but generally ride a bike a lot more than most recreational cyclists.
all the guys you watch in mtb videos that you're in awe of their skills are "riders"

Forget skills courses. They don't turn anyone into a rider. But you can become a rider fairly easily by just grabbing a bike and just pissing about on it. Do it enough and I assure you you'll continue to progress and improve rather than plateau.

 

[Tonybro]

I'm with you, Gary,

Same with Skiers. Two week per annum intermediate plateau skiers. Go for two weeks every year and never improve. You need to be on them for longer and continually. I only broke the cycle by spending time on snow regularly, living near the Scottish Ski Centres helped, and then 5 weeks (contiguous) in the Alps. I became a far better skier by trying things out and not trying to get to where I was before...